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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 10/09/20 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
Doesn't matter what quality of shooters you have around A'ja, the Aces' perimeter offense is never going to get better unless Bill decides to actually use it.


And the converse is true. Young played her best this year when she was try to get to the basket. Once she started chucking it up from outside, her effectiveness became nil, and she's clearly demonstrated that she's no PG. I have a lot of respect for Bill, but this year was not his best performance. The Aces clearly need a lot of roster changes, both to shore up the perimeter offense and to provide 2 good post players because I doubt Swords will want to return.


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/09/20 2:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Young played her best this year when she was try to get to the basket.


She played her best last year (as a rookie) starting all 34 games.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Once she started chucking it up from outside, her effectiveness became nil


She took no more than one three point shot a game during the regular season, except for one game she shot two. She’s hardly an Ogunbowale.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
she's clearly demonstrated that she's no PG.


It’s a tough position to get used to. Some Chicago fans wanted to rid of Vandersloot because she sucked in her first two years. She got hooked up with a trainer and got better after that. I remember Diggins hooked up with a trainer after her poor rookie year. Trainers seem to be key for WNBA PG’s.

Cambage seems to be in Young’s corner, so we’ll see up what happens. I think it’ll be between Plum, Young, and maybe DRob for starting PG. Hopefully Laimbeer will get over this silly notion of starting his third best PG. It’s nice to have a strong bench, but not at the sacrifice of the starting lineup. Let your starting PG get into a rhythm from the start. I’m predicting Allen will move on, but you can never tell with Laimbeer.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
The Aces clearly need a lot of roster changes


Don’t forget they were the #1 seed this year. I’m not seeing a lot of changes, other than bringing back the players who missed last season (Cambage, Plum). I’m personally a little shaky on McBride because she didn’t step up like a vet should when the team needed her. Look how Loyd is doing compared to her. Which one is more deserving of a high contract? They can probably afford to pay McBride, but I wouldn’t make it for more than one year, since other players like Wilson and Hamby will deservedly be looking for big raises in 2022.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
shore up the perimeter offense


Will Laimbeer change his team’s style next season to be a three point shooting team when he’ll have the most formidable post duo in the league? I’ll believe it when I see it.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
provide 2 good post players


Cambage and Park will be a great substitute for that valuable Swords and Cannon duo.

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I doubt Swords will want to return.


Not a lot of tears will be shed, except maybe from that one Swords fan that pops in every once in a while.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 10/09/20 4:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
She played her best last year (as a rookie) starting all 34 games.


Jackie Young scored sixteen more total points, in twelve fewer games. She outperformed her rookie season in terms of significant counting stats (PPG/RPG), shot a much higher raw FG percentage, had a much higher True Shooting percentage, and a much higher Effective FG percentage, and a higher PER, and was better per/36 min. (cite)

By what criteria are you making the determination that Young was better her rookie season?



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 10/09/20 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think early this year, we got a glimpse of the better version of J.Young, but later on she reverted and looked worse than last year. She had set a pretty low bar last year. I thought when watching the good version that if she could develop a three point shot, she could be the future Angel. Remembering when Angel came into the league, she was a pretty bad three point shooter as well. I think she must have worked on it a bunch in the year she took off. So if J.Young can develop that shot, IMO she can be a pretty good SF. If Bill keeps insisting she's a PG, then she will continue to be less than impressive (nice way of saying it).

Hamby was very unimpressive her first couple of years in the league, so she should be able to see progress is possible. Of course Hamby was not a #1 pick either. And I don't know J.Young's mindset - if she thinks she needs to improve or will just try to skate with what she has. The potential is there. What she does with it is yet to be seen.



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 10/09/20 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Young is still somewhat hard to gauge. Personally, I don’t think she sucked, she took care of the ball, got it to the stars, and got the hell out of the way as a PG. If we’re only basing value on scoring and being able to shoot threes, then she sucked. But clearly, there are more components to the game.

If we’re basing her season as a #1 pick and comparing to Taurasi, Parker, Griner, etc., then she sucked. But she clearly wasn’t drafted to score, she was supposed to blend in to the stars that they already had.

But if anybody is to blame, it’s Laimbeer. Twisted Evil



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 10/09/20 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LV had a very good season. They ended as the #1 team after losing two starters from the previous year. The big problem was in the final they came up a Seattle team that was healthy, talented and experienced. The loss of Hamby hurt a lot as she provided scoring and bench depth that is needed to beat a deep team who is good on both ends.

Getting Plum and a healthy Hamby back adds more 3 point shooting and depth.

J. Young IMO is a better defensive less offensive version of TY Young. She isn't meant to lead the team offensively or as the PG but when the Aces lose their depth it J. Young's deficiencies become more pronounced

I still think the big question going into next year is can you mesh a Wilson/Cambage front-court. Talent-wise they are both top 10 but when they played together last season when Cambage was full strength Wilson sort of faded to the background. Wilson seems at her best (MVP winning level) when she is the clear cut #1 option in the post and is given tons of room to operate on the low block. That space isn't there with Cambage unless Cambage re-invents her game on the offensive end playing outside more, or Wilson develops a high post perimeter game to go along with her low post in the lane work. It is possible but based on what we saw last year it will need to be worked on. This year is hard to judge over all but regular season this LV team was better than last years. An easy answer is they are pros and can work it out lets give the Cambage/Wilson pairing another shot the harder answer might be as talented as both Wilson and Cambage are we function better with Wilson as the main piece and that won'y work with Cambage on the court. (or vice versa but there is no way the Aces move on from Wilson there is some for seeable way they could move on from Cambage). It is also possible with the continued weirdness from Covid and the Olympics that 21 is another no Cambage year.

If Laimbeer and Charles like each other getting Charles on board for a Championship run seems not too unrealistic IMO. Charles at the point in her career would probably be happy to be a 2nd option in the post and run her game from the high post and perimeter leaving Wilson all the space to operate while adding another all-star level post to the mix. Laimbeer loves his retread and Charles IMO is a good match upfront with Wilson.

(I also question whether McBride is as good as she used to be, but I am not sure there are better option adding Plum and Charles offense does take pressure off McBride as the 3rd option

Plum/D-Rob
McBride/draft pick (Dungee, Westbrook, Richards, Carrington)
McCoughtry/J. Young
Charles/Hamby
Wilson/Park/*

* You still need some post help but there is likely to be someone available on the waiver wire (Gustafson, Brewer, Shook, Holmes, Gulich?) or maybe you can get someone like Achonwa, Breland, GloJo, Lavender, Zahui b etc for a mid level contract and a chance at a ship. I doubt Swords comes back after technically retiring last season and having a job on the staff but Swords off the bench for 10-15 minutes if you have a new post starter like Charles or sticking with Cambage is quite adequate.

If you can afford 12 Rodgers or Allen as the 5th guard is fine, you can also find someone off the waiver wire for that role as well.


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/09/20 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

I still think the big question going into next year is can you mesh a Wilson/Cambage front-court.


Of course you can. Swords and Wilson were meshing for about 17 mpg this season.

J-Spoon wrote:
Talent-wise they are both top 10 but when they played together last season when Cambage was full strength Wilson sort of faded to the background. Wilson seems at her best (MVP winning level) when she is the clear cut #1 option in the post and is given tons of room to operate on the low block.


It’s not about Wilson being MVP. I agree she’s much less likely to be MVP when Cambage is there, much like Maya or Fowles is more likely to be MVP if the other isn’t there (especially Maya). What matters is TEAM championships. I think way too much is being made about not being enough room for both of them. I heard Laimbeer say he was disappointed with Wilson’s conditioning last year, so I’m going with that over an imaginary narrative.

J-Spoon wrote:
This year is hard to judge over all but regular season this LV team was better than last years.


This year’s team added McCoughtry and DRob, so I’m pretty sure that helped. Last year had a competitive Washington team in the league. Should we say big changes need to be made for Washington when all they have to do is get their opt-outs back?

J-Spoon wrote:
there is no way the Aces move on from Wilson there is some for seeable way they could move on from Cambage.


Did anybody watch that video Luuuc posted? I’m not seeing it. I thought trading Griner was a bad idea. This is even worst. How do you tell a player of Cambage’s level THAT WANTS TO BE THERE to move on, and then you have to play against her on another team. Doesn’t seem likely or advisable.

J-Spoon wrote:
It is also possible with the continued weirdness from Covid and the Olympics that 21 is another no Cambage year.


If this is the case, I wouldn’t sign Cambage unless she commits to playing in the bubble, which turned out to a smashing success this year. Those that had health anxiety shouldn’t be fearing it next year. It’s actually probably safer in the bubble.

J-Spoon wrote:
If Laimbeer and Charles like each other getting Charles on board for a Championship run seems not too unrealistic IMO.


Laimbeer already has his own younger, better, cheaper version of Charles in Wilson. Don’t need the declining version. It’s NOT going to happen.

J-Spoon wrote:
Charles at the point in her career would probably be happy to be a 2nd option in the post


That’s obvious. She was willing to be the third option at the Mystics. She can be their overpriced problem. They traded for her. Let “genius” GM Thibault figure out that one.

J-Spoon wrote:

I also question whether McBride is as good as she used to be, but I am not sure there are better option adding Plum and Charles offense does take pressure off McBride as the 3rd option


If McBride can’t handle the pressure, that’s a problem. Give her a one-year middling deal to see if she improves next year.



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Last edited by Shades on 10/13/20 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 10/10/20 12:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I always enjoy the way you break up your points I am not as technically skilled at manipulating the forum so I will just do my responses in a similar fashion point by point without quoting

Cambage and Swords are completely different in what they bring to the table comparing Swords 17 minutes a night to Cambage 30 minutes a night isn't very relevant to my point whether you agree or disagree with the point itself.

My point about Wilson playing at an MVP level wasn't meant as a statement in a vacuum, it was meant also in reference to the Aces overall success one year vs another. The year with MVP Wilson also has LV as the #1 team in the regular season and making their first trip to the finals.

The addition of D-Rob and Angel is a valid point in reference to overall team success. the 19 team betides having Cambage also had Plum, TY Young and a better version of McBride so those factors also play into the comparison year to year. But I do agree that Angel and D-Rob are probably still a net positive, as to the degree it is harder to determine. The comparison with Washington doesn't make sense, Washington did much worse without its opts out so why wouldn't they want them back. LV did better without its opts out which is part of the reason the question arises in the first place.

I did watch the video, I believe what Cambage is saying, humans are complicated we can feel something very strongly in one moment and feel differently about that same thing in another.

Signing Cambage for next year is complicated LV will have the opportunity to core her which adds another layer to the situation. I agree that getting Cambage to commit should be a major consideration in what LV management does. And I will agree that if Cambage is all in on returning to WNBA and LV it is very unlikely LV doesn't bring her back. If she is less committed or open to a trade to LA that is a different conversation, but I must admit that if Cambage wants to return I don't see LV moving on from her. So my premise that they would move on from a committed Cambage solely as a way to improve Wilson's out put and possibly the teams success level is faulty. Which is clearly the point you disagree with and I will concede that point, even though I think there is still a question as to whether the team functions better with Wilson as the clear #1 or Cambage and Wilson as co #1 options. Sometime there is nothing to those sort of arguments sometime there is actual fit issues whether it be on the court, or in the power structure of a team.

So with a slight change in premise if for some reason the Cambage/Wilson pairing doesn't come to fruition going into next season I still think Laimbeer would consider a Wilson/Charles pairing. (I am also not sure Washington can afford Charles at max (for more than a season) if they give one to Messeman, want to pay Powers well, and want to have a big contract available for MHA. Mike T gave traded for Charles before Hines-Allen became an all WNBA player.

Yeah I don't know where McBride stands on the priority scale, someone like Sykes might be poachable, if not R. Williams, Augustus or Powers might be able to give you similar results for less money. I still McBride back on the squad.

In conclusion I think Vegas could work with both Cambage and Wilson on the team, but this years squads greater success than last years does make me wonder if Cambage/Wilson is a recipe for success. I agree that on paper it looks like it (but I don't think it is as sure of thing as it looks).

Plum/Robinson
McBride/Draft pick
McCoughtry/J. Young
Wilson/Hamby
Cambage/Park


myrtle



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PostPosted: 10/10/20 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't see Charles on this team and I don't think she wants to go West anyway. I think Wilson and Cambage will be just fine together again. They had a year to figure out how it works so I expect them to be even better next time around. Pick and roll baby - movement and setting screens. It's up to coach to set them up for mutual success.
I keep harping on it, but what this team really needs is at least two consistent three point shooters on the floor at the same time. This will open things up for those inside players. McBride has been disappointing this year but maybe better when she is the 4th or 5th option instead of the 2nd or 3rd. If not, shop for someone who can fill that spot better. This year, most of the time it felt like they 1/2 of a three point shooter on the floor and that was brutal for all those people trying to get into the paint.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 10/10/20 5:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't understand the expectation that Park is going to be an adequate back up at post. In 2 seasons with LV, in 10 mpg, she's averaged 1.9 ppg and 2.4 rpg. That's a noticeable step down from Swords.


ucbart



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PostPosted: 10/13/20 8:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wilson has played 3 seasons:

1. One of the best rookie years ever
2. Good
3. MVP

She can't play with Cambage and be the focus of the offense. As good as A'ja is, she is a 5 with a bit of range. Her and Cambage both clog the lane and they just don't fit well together.

Whoever posted the LA-LV trade wins the thread.


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/13/20 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Las Vegas Aces GM Dan Padover On What Comes Next After WNBA Finals Loss
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brendonkleen/2020/10/09/las-vegas-aces-gm-dan-padover-on-what-comes-next-after-wnba-finals-loss/#41d33ec366e6

Quote:
Re-signing [Cambage] will be a top priority for Las Vegas’ front office, and they can lure her with the $215,000 super-maximum contract for “cored” players.


Quote:
“One of the most important things is to recruit your own players,” Aces general manager Dan Padover told me. “You can talk about outside free agents, you can talk about draft picks, but the most important people we had are those who finished with us this year and who were on our roster but couldn’t play for medical reasons.”


Quote:
Sources close to the team believe there is mutual interest with McBride, but that a huge offer like we saw for several unrestricted free agents in the 2020 offseason could make things tight for Las Vegas.


Not to mention you have to plan beyond 2021 if you want to keep minor league players like Wilson and Hamby.

Quote:
Padover said the team is expecting that [Plum] will be back in time for Aces training camp in mid-spring.


Quote:
quite frankly, talent wins. We saw that in the Finals.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 10/13/20 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I don't understand the expectation that Park is going to be an adequate back up at post. In 2 seasons with LV, in 10 mpg, she's averaged 1.9 ppg and 2.4 rpg. That's a noticeable step down from Swords.


Park is still very young and very cheap while Swords wants to retire. We’ll see what happens. Just because a player doesn’t get a lot of opportunity doesn’t necessarily mean that they aren’t good, as was seen with Hines-Allen. Park is easy to slot in there right now. If Laimbeer finds someone better for cheap enough, that can always change. No big deal at this point.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/13/20 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ironic that an article on a website about money shows signs of both not being able to look up numbers and not being able to add them up.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 10/13/20 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I don't understand the expectation that Park is going to be an adequate back up at post. In 2 seasons with LV, in 10 mpg, she's averaged 1.9 ppg and 2.4 rpg. That's a noticeable step down from Swords.


What difference does that make? Park is not in competition with Swords for the backup spot, because Swords wants to retire, or are we forgetting that she only agreed to play this season as a favor, because the team was super desperate?

Park's only real competition is whomever else they could get, for what they would have to pay Park.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 10/29/20 9:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
I don't understand the expectation that Park is going to be an adequate back up at post. In 2 seasons with LV, in 10 mpg, she's averaged 1.9 ppg and 2.4 rpg. That's a noticeable step down from Swords.


Park is still very young and very cheap while Swords wants to retire. We’ll see what happens. Just because a player doesn’t get a lot of opportunity doesn’t necessarily mean that they aren’t good, as was seen with Hines-Allen. Park is easy to slot in there right now. If Laimbeer finds someone better for cheap enough, that can always change. No big deal at this point.





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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 10/29/20 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not the Bay-yang.



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ChasingRatDogmaSalade



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PostPosted: 10/30/20 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://aces.wnba.com/news/aces-abroad-domestic-league-update-october-30-2020/


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 10/30/20 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChasingRatDogmaSalade wrote:
https://aces.wnba.com/news/aces-abroad-domestic-league-update-october-30-2020/


This is cool , every team should do this . Keep up with current players overseas ! Thanks Bill !



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WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 10/30/20 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Not the Bay-yang.


Laughing


ChasingRatDogmaSalade



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PostPosted: 11/02/20 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://aces.wnba.com/news/aces-abroad-domestic-league-update-november-2-2020/


ChasingRatDogmaSalade



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PostPosted: 11/03/20 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A'ja to appear on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert's facebook live and instagram live accounts beginning at 5 pm ET/2 pm PT as part of their pre-show Election Day coverage.


ChasingRatDogmaSalade



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PostPosted: 11/05/20 2:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://aces.wnba.com/news/aces-abroad-domestic-league-update-november-4-2020/


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/07/20 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A'ja Wilson on NPR

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/07/931936919/not-my-job-we-quiz-aja-wilson-the-wnba-s-mvp-on-the-dmv

Quote:
A'ja Wilson, a forward for the Las Vegas Aces, is the 2020 WNBA Most Valuable Player, so we've invited her to play a game called "Please take a number and stand in line." Three questions for a basketball MVP about the DMV.



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PostPosted: 11/10/20 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Last but not least, our final review/preview covered Las Vegas. Again, cap/contract details and analysis from me, all the rest by my colleagues.

https://herhoopstats.substack.com/p/2020-reflections-and-2021-forecasts-847



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