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| Who should win DPOY? |
| Alysha Clark |
|
51% |
[ 16 ] |
| Napheesa Collier |
|
9% |
[ 3 ] |
| Candace Parker |
|
16% |
[ 5 ] |
| Breanna Stewart |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Alyssa Thomas |
|
12% |
[ 4 ] |
| Brianna Turner |
|
9% |
[ 3 ] |
| A'ja Wilson |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Someone else |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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| Author |
Message |
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
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 Posted: 09/25/20 8:31 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role. |
Magbegor should at the very least have Stewart and Russell next year. Add in the coaches, and there should be plenty of mentors for her to turn to without Langhorne. It makes no sense to bring Langhorne back, even on vet min - not with who needs new contracts next season. |
You say that, but isn’t that also the situation this season and she still has relied on Crystal. Is there a reason to believe it would “work” next season when it isn’t this season. I don’t know the dynamics of the Storm, but there is a reason she has relied or used Crystal and not the others that you have talked about. |
It's probably because Langhorne likely has seen the most action in her professional career of the post group, and maybe has the most post moves out of any other player on the team. So maybe we hire her as a coach if she retires next season. But as a player, it makes no sense to keep her when she can't contribute on the court anymore. The thing about Sue Bird is, when she's healthy, she very much can still contribute - that's why she's still here & playing. Obviously she was a great pure mentor those couple of seasons that she was out injured, but she is still here because she can still play. In this day & age, players need to be able to step up when called upon. Langhorne just can't do it anymore. She tried to develop a 3PT shot late in the proverbial game, but it wasn't enough - and she's just not quick or athletic enough to consistently finish around the rim against players taller and/or more athletic than her. And most importantly, the way the salary cap is set up, teams just can't afford to carry around expensive players that aren't able to contribute on the court anymore. Even if Langhorne agreed to change her contract to the vet-min price, we all know she will only sit on the bench game after game and only see garbage time. I get what you're saying about player-to-player mentorships, but it makes no sense to keep a single player around effectively for the sole benefit of helping improve one other player - even a player with Magbegor's potential. |
I understand money is an issue, and obviously other contracts, people, etc have to be taken into consideration, but it’s not like we are talking about a rebuilding team, this a team that is 1 win away from going to the finals, and for most of the season has been the best team in the league. Along with on the court performance, coaches and GMs have to take into consideration off the court relationships, chemistry, etc.. Given how long Crystal has been in the league, how long she has been on the Storm and in the league I’m sure she has been impactful off the court and in practices to other players and the team as a whole. Depending on how impactful the coaches/front office/players believe she is to the current success of the team I wouldn’t be surprised if she is offered a contract and does come back to the Storm.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand completely what you are trying to saying, but I just think there can still be reasons to sign her regardless of what type of action she sees in games because if they believe her role is an important key to the success of the team you will be hard pressed to find another player that can come in and play that same role.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 16464
Location: Holland
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| Posted: 09/26/20 4:10 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role. |
Magbegor should at the very least have Stewart and Russell next year. Add in the coaches, and there should be plenty of mentors for her to turn to without Langhorne. It makes no sense to bring Langhorne back, even on vet min - not with who needs new contracts next season. |
You say that, but isn’t that also the situation this season and she still has relied on Crystal. Is there a reason to believe it would “work” next season when it isn’t this season. I don’t know the dynamics of the Storm, but there is a reason she has relied or used Crystal and not the others that you have talked about. |
It's probably because Langhorne likely has seen the most action in her professional career of the post group, and maybe has the most post moves out of any other player on the team. So maybe we hire her as a coach if she retires next season. But as a player, it makes no sense to keep her when she can't contribute on the court anymore. The thing about Sue Bird is, when she's healthy, she very much can still contribute - that's why she's still here & playing. Obviously she was a great pure mentor those couple of seasons that she was out injured, but she is still here because she can still play. In this day & age, players need to be able to step up when called upon. Langhorne just can't do it anymore. She tried to develop a 3PT shot late in the proverbial game, but it wasn't enough - and she's just not quick or athletic enough to consistently finish around the rim against players taller and/or more athletic than her. And most importantly, the way the salary cap is set up, teams just can't afford to carry around expensive players that aren't able to contribute on the court anymore. Even if Langhorne agreed to change her contract to the vet-min price, we all know she will only sit on the bench game after game and only see garbage time. I get what you're saying about player-to-player mentorships, but it makes no sense to keep a single player around effectively for the sole benefit of helping improve one other player - even a player with Magbegor's potential. |
I understand money is an issue, and obviously other contracts, people, etc have to be taken into consideration, but it’s not like we are talking about a rebuilding team, this a team that is 1 win away from going to the finals, and for most of the season has been the best team in the league. Along with on the court performance, coaches and GMs have to take into consideration off the court relationships, chemistry, etc.. Given how long Crystal has been in the league, how long she has been on the Storm and in the league I’m sure she has been impactful off the court and in practices to other players and the team as a whole. Depending on how impactful the coaches/front office/players believe she is to the current success of the team I wouldn’t be surprised if she is offered a contract and does come back to the Storm.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand completely what you are trying to saying, but I just think there can still be reasons to sign her regardless of what type of action she sees in games because if they believe her role is an important key to the success of the team you will be hard pressed to find another player that can come in and play that same role. |
Or they go the Noelle Quinn route and sign her as an assistent
_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
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| Posted: 09/26/20 4:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role. |
Magbegor should at the very least have Stewart and Russell next year. Add in the coaches, and there should be plenty of mentors for her to turn to without Langhorne. It makes no sense to bring Langhorne back, even on vet min - not with who needs new contracts next season. |
You say that, but isn’t that also the situation this season and she still has relied on Crystal. Is there a reason to believe it would “work” next season when it isn’t this season. I don’t know the dynamics of the Storm, but there is a reason she has relied or used Crystal and not the others that you have talked about. |
It's probably because Langhorne likely has seen the most action in her professional career of the post group, and maybe has the most post moves out of any other player on the team. So maybe we hire her as a coach if she retires next season. But as a player, it makes no sense to keep her when she can't contribute on the court anymore. The thing about Sue Bird is, when she's healthy, she very much can still contribute - that's why she's still here & playing. Obviously she was a great pure mentor those couple of seasons that she was out injured, but she is still here because she can still play. In this day & age, players need to be able to step up when called upon. Langhorne just can't do it anymore. She tried to develop a 3PT shot late in the proverbial game, but it wasn't enough - and she's just not quick or athletic enough to consistently finish around the rim against players taller and/or more athletic than her. And most importantly, the way the salary cap is set up, teams just can't afford to carry around expensive players that aren't able to contribute on the court anymore. Even if Langhorne agreed to change her contract to the vet-min price, we all know she will only sit on the bench game after game and only see garbage time. I get what you're saying about player-to-player mentorships, but it makes no sense to keep a single player around effectively for the sole benefit of helping improve one other player - even a player with Magbegor's potential. |
I understand money is an issue, and obviously other contracts, people, etc have to be taken into consideration, but it’s not like we are talking about a rebuilding team, this a team that is 1 win away from going to the finals, and for most of the season has been the best team in the league. Along with on the court performance, coaches and GMs have to take into consideration off the court relationships, chemistry, etc.. Given how long Crystal has been in the league, how long she has been on the Storm and in the league I’m sure she has been impactful off the court and in practices to other players and the team as a whole. Depending on how impactful the coaches/front office/players believe she is to the current success of the team I wouldn’t be surprised if she is offered a contract and does come back to the Storm.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand completely what you are trying to saying, but I just think there can still be reasons to sign her regardless of what type of action she sees in games because if they believe her role is an important key to the success of the team you will be hard pressed to find another player that can come in and play that same role. |
Or they go the Noelle Quinn route and sign her as an assistent |
Very true, that’s why I mentioned in one of my previous posts “depending on how the coaching situation plays out”, but if no assistant coach plans on leaving, especially with Dan coming back, that route could not be an option for next season.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
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| Posted: 09/26/20 11:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Force10rulz wrote: |
| Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does. |
Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season. |
Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. But everyone on all sides knows Clark ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max amount that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with should Clark re-sign shouldn't be too far off from that imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle. |
Do you believe that the supermax should be reserved for scorers?
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
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| Posted: 09/27/20 1:25 am ::: |
Reply |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| But everyone on all sides knows Clark ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. |
Do you believe that the supermax should be reserved for scorers? |
Should be? I would say yes, albeit hesitantly. Particularly as it relates to the whole "offense is individual-oriented, defense is collective-oriented" idea - a very imperfect idea on its own that I would say I still subscribe to, even factoring in the full context of the sport of basketball. I say this, without having any basis of comparison for, say, how many hours someone like Diana Taurasi has in her lifetime practiced offense vs. how many hours someone like Tamika Catchings has in her lifetime practiced defense. Not to get philosophical, but basketball (and every other point-counting sport) at its core is about scoring enough. So its understandable and sensical to me how the individual players considered most "valuable" are those who can simply score. But then, there's the unique basketball concept of point guards, which can completely add in its own component to it. I was one of the people who was vocal about Courtney Vandersloot being considered an MVP candidate. The statistic of assists to me is one of the most imperfect measures of a good offense-runner, since it doesn't showcase good passes made to players not in position to score or the intelligence and wherewithal it takes to direct the teammates into the right spots. But subjectively speaking, where would a team be without good or at least not-bad point guard play? ...well, I tried to go as long as I could without infusing subjective analysis into my thoughts, but here we are. 
In general, it would seem to me that the supermax contracts in this League should be reserved for three categories of players: 17+ PPG high-volume decent-to-ok-efficiency players (with whatever level of defensive ability), 13-16 PPG solid-to-elite-efficiency defensively-elite players, and 10+ PPG high-assist-total point guards specifically (with whatever level of defensive ability). That might creep more into how it is in reality rather than how I think it should be, but if it does it's not by much. So I think if we saw other players outside of those three categories get a supermax – excluding those franchise players who have put in countless years in the same place and thus take on more of an invaluable quality – it would make me raise my eyebrows
Back to Alysha Clark: as I said originally, she wouldn't get the supermax if I were the Storm/same-team GM because she simply doesn't score enough and hasn't scored enough in the WNBA. Of course, she absolutely didn't need to in 2018 and doesn't need to here in 2020. But all those other years, she arguably had the opportunity to do it. If she had it in her to score a lot but didn't because she didn't want to lose energy on the defensive end, that's on her. Although, even with the more conventional argument that she didn't have it in her to score 13-16 PPG in any season, ultimately that's on her too – but rather, as it relates to talent deficiency rather than prioritizing. She has post moves & post-up scoring that she excels in but can't do them too often due to her size-related lack of opportunity. She has a great catch-and-shoot 3PT shot but can't really shoot it off the dribble. She has a one-dribble pull-up inside the 3PT line but otherwise takes no other midrange shots (and so presumably has no other midrange shot than that). And she can't create her own shot. Knowing all of that, though, if she were to somehow get her PPG average up to that 13-16 sweet spot, I would probably do a 180 and say she does deserve a supermax so long as her efficiency (objectively) and her defense (subjectively) don't get significantly worse. But as she is the consummate consistency player, it is arguably to a fault somehow as it relates to her own "value". It would be really interesting if she ever tried to be a "scorer", tried to look for her offense more and thus score more, presumably. But even here in her 9th year, she came up one (1) point short of averaging 10 PPG, and it was still her career-high PPG in a season with less games than normal. She has all but proven she simply can't score like that, so she'd get no supermax from me. That was a wildly long answer for a single question and I maybe could've stopped after the first paragraph, but I know (and appreciate!) that you're one of the few people on here that for sure takes the time to actually read over responses, including mine. I've felt recently that some certainly don't always do so, and may or may not pretend to... (and here we see Stormeo reach the "fuck it" stage of this post with even more subjective analysis lmao)
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