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DPOY
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Who should win DPOY?
Alysha Clark
51%
 51%  [ 16 ]
Napheesa Collier
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
Candace Parker
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
Breanna Stewart
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Alyssa Thomas
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
Brianna Turner
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
A'ja Wilson
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Someone else
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 31

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mercfan



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 3:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Parker wasn't even the best defender at her position.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RP wrote:
It should have been Clark, but lots of exaggeration in this thread as well. Parker has clearly been good enough to be All-Defensive.


And which player are you going to leave off A.Thomas? Stewie? Howard? Collier?



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 7:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 7:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.

Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. But everyone on all sides knows Clark ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max amount that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with should Clark re-sign shouldn't be too far off from that imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle.



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.

Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. I do think everyone on all sides knows she ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with shouldn't be that far off imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle.
This upcoming contract is her last time to get paid a nice salary before she retires. She should go after the best contract that she can get. Either with Seattle or some other team.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.

Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. I do think everyone on all sides knows she ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with shouldn't be that far off imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle.
This upcoming contract is her last time to get paid a nice salary before she retires. She should go after the best contract that she can get. Either with Seattle or some other team.


Lets hope that the Storm move on from Langhorne and Tuck and use that money to give Clark, Howard and Sami more



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 8:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.

Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. I do think everyone on all sides knows she ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with shouldn't be that far off imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle.
This upcoming contract is her last time to get paid a nice salary before she retires. She should go after the best contract that she can get. Either with Seattle or some other team.


Lets hope that the Storm move on from Langhorne and Tuck and use that money to give Clark, Howard and Sami more

Please tell me how Seattle plan on dumping Langhorne and Tuck. An inquiring mind wants to know. Wink



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 8:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Lets hope that the Storm move on from Langhorne and Tuck and use that money to give Clark, Howard and Sami more

Please tell me how Seattle plan on dumping Langhorne and Tuck. An inquiring mind wants to know. Wink

Easy. Neither contract is guaranteed in 2021. It's 100% a matter of if Valavanis recognizes she'll need that money if she wants to keep the soon-to-be free agents that have actually recorded minutes in tonight's game!



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.

Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. I do think everyone on all sides knows she ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with shouldn't be that far off imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle.
This upcoming contract is her last time to get paid a nice salary before she retires. She should go after the best contract that she can get. Either with Seattle or some other team.


Lets hope that the Storm move on from Langhorne and Tuck and use that money to give Clark, Howard and Sami more

Please tell me how Seattle plan on dumping Langhorne and Tuck. An inquiring mind wants to know. Wink


Langhorne is not signed for next season i believe. Also i wouldnt be suprised if she retires. She lost her minutes to Ezi almost from the start.
If i remember correctly Richyyy said that Tucks contract wasnt fully guaranteed



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GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 13745
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PostPosted: 09/24/20 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.

Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. I do think everyone on all sides knows she ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with shouldn't be that far off imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle.
This upcoming contract is her last time to get paid a nice salary before she retires. She should go after the best contract that she can get. Either with Seattle or some other team.


Lets hope that the Storm move on from Langhorne and Tuck and use that money to give Clark, Howard and Sami more

Please tell me how Seattle plan on dumping Langhorne and Tuck. An inquiring mind wants to know. Wink


Langhorne is not signed for next season i believe. Also i wouldnt be suprised if she retires. She lost her minutes to Ezi almost from the start.
If i remember correctly Richyyy said that Tucks contract wasnt fully guaranteed


Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Langhorne is not signed for next season i believe. Also i wouldnt be suprised if she retires. She lost her minutes to Ezi almost from the start. If i remember correctly Richyyy said that Tucks contract wasnt fully guaranteed


Langhorne is signed for next season. I too think it'd be in her best interest to retire. And yep, you remembered correctly. Tuck's contract was only guaranteed this year for 2020. Let's hope the front office ensures neither are on the roster next season. That's over 200k that's just been sitting on the bench basically this entire season.

GEF34 wrote:
Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role.

Magbegor should at the very least have Stewart and Russell next year. Add in the coaches, and there should be plenty of mentors for her to turn to without Langhorne. It makes no sense to bring Langhorne back, even on vet min - not with who needs new contracts next season.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 10:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Langhorne is not signed for next season i believe. Also i wouldnt be suprised if she retires. She lost her minutes to Ezi almost from the start. If i remember correctly Richyyy said that Tucks contract wasnt fully guaranteed


Langhorne is signed for next season. I too think it'd be in her best interest to retire. And yep, you remembered correctly. Tuck's contract was only guaranteed this year for 2020. Let's hope the front office ensures neither are on the roster next season. That's over 200k that's just been sitting on the bench basically this entire season.

GEF34 wrote:
Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role.

Magbegor should at the very least have Stewart and Russell next year. Add in the coaches, and there should be plenty of mentors for her to turn to without Langhorne. It makes no sense to bring Langhorne back, even on vet min - not with who needs new contracts next season.


You say that, but isn’t that also the situation this season and she still has relied on Crystal. Is there a reason to believe it would “work” next season when it isn’t this season. I don’t know the dynamics of the Storm, but there is a reason she has relied or used Crystal and not the others that you have talked about.



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role.

Magbegor should at the very least have Stewart and Russell next year. Add in the coaches, and there should be plenty of mentors for her to turn to without Langhorne. It makes no sense to bring Langhorne back, even on vet min - not with who needs new contracts next season.


You say that, but isn’t that also the situation this season and she still has relied on Crystal. Is there a reason to believe it would “work” next season when it isn’t this season. I don’t know the dynamics of the Storm, but there is a reason she has relied or used Crystal and not the others that you have talked about.

It's probably because Langhorne likely has seen the most action in her professional career of the post group, and maybe has the most post moves out of any other player on the team. So maybe we hire her as a coach if she retires next season. But as a player, it makes no sense to keep her when she can't contribute on the court anymore. The thing about Sue Bird is, when she's healthy, she very much can still contribute - that's why she's still here & playing. Obviously she was a great pure mentor those couple of seasons that she was out injured, but she is still here because she can still play. In this day & age, players need to be able to step up when called upon. Langhorne just can't do it anymore. She tried to develop a 3PT shot late in the proverbial game, but it wasn't enough - and she's just not quick or athletic enough to consistently finish around the rim against players taller and/or more athletic than her. And most importantly, the way the salary cap is set up, teams just can't afford to carry around expensive players that aren't able to contribute on the court anymore. Even if Langhorne agreed to change her contract to the vet-min price, we all know she will only sit on the bench game after game and only see garbage time. I get what you're saying about player-to-player mentorships, but it makes no sense to keep a single player around effectively for the sole benefit of helping improve one other player - even a player with Magbegor's potential.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 3:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.

Y'know... there are a hell of a lot worse players the supermax could be used on. I do think everyone on all sides knows she ain't worth the same-team supermax - not with that PPG average. Now, the max that a different team could offer (~$187k)? I think Clark's agent should start with no less than that and see what Valavanis thinks of it tbh. The real number they come up with shouldn't be that far off imo. This of course assumes Clark wants to come back to Seattle.
This upcoming contract is her last time to get paid a nice salary before she retires. She should go after the best contract that she can get. Either with Seattle or some other team.


Lets hope that the Storm move on from Langhorne and Tuck and use that money to give Clark, Howard and Sami more

Please tell me how Seattle plan on dumping Langhorne and Tuck. An inquiring mind wants to know. Wink


Langhorne is not signed for next season i believe. Also i wouldnt be suprised if she retires. She lost her minutes to Ezi almost from the start.
If i remember correctly Richyyy said that Tucks contract wasnt fully guaranteed


Didn’t Ezi say Crystal has been a big help to her off the court, and a great mentor, depending on how the coaching situation plays out, they may bring her back for that role again, especially if they think Ezi still needs that mentorship and there aren’t other players currently in that role.


You are not going to pay 105.000 for a personal coach though. Not when it means that you cant re-sign Clark, Howard and Sami. I think Langhorne took the mentoring role because she is the ultimate professional with the most postexperience out of our team. She saw that Ezi was taking her role and instead of whining about it she decided to help her out as best as possible. I love that she is so classy about it. But we have 3 players that deserve a bigger salary and that are actually playing for us.



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 3:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And to pour a little more water onto the idea, there's also the possibility of Ezi missing a chunk of next season due to Olympic commitments



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 9:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

According to Spotrac, both Langhorne and Tuck are signed for next season with the latter being guaranteed. Spotrac isn't always right so haters still have hope. Wink



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
FWIW. Basketball Ref.'s Advanced Stats show Parker beats Clark in 4 defensive metrics. Stewart beats her in all 5 and beats Parker in 3.

Code:
              DR%   Blk%   Stl%  DR   DWS
Parker        32.7   3.8   2     95   1.8
Clark         12.9   1.5   2.6   97   1.5
Stewart       26.4   3.8   2.7   91   2.0


I had to look up DR to see why lower was better: Defensive Rating (DR) = 100 / (TmPoss + OppPoss) * OppPts


mayajustwins



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Randy wrote:
FWIW. Basketball Ref.'s Advanced Stats show Parker beats Clark in 4 defensive metrics. Stewart beats her in all 5 and beats Parker in 3.

Code:
              DR%   Blk%   Stl%  DR   DWS
Parker        32.7   3.8   2     95   1.8
Clark         12.9   1.5   2.6   97   1.5
Stewart       26.4   3.8   2.7   91   2.0


I had to look up DR to see why lower was better: Defensive Rating (DR) = 100 / (TmPoss + OppPoss) * OppPts


Of course, that wouldn't be able to factor in the relative skills of the people being defended. So Clark would have an edge in degree of difficulty (to borrow a gymnastics term).



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 12:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
According to Spotrac, both Langhorne and Tuck are signed for next season with the latter being guaranteed. Spotrac isn't always right so haters still have hope. Wink

According to Richyyy, Tuck's contract was only guaranteed this year.

(Though I have this sinking feeling they're gonna keep her on next season to "give her another chance" Evil or Very Mad )



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 1:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Force10rulz wrote:
Alysha should have won, who is in the playoffs? Who take on the toughest opponents in the league. Alysha does.

Since she is the Storm's best defender then the Storm should give her a max contract during free agency season.


She has earned it for sure.



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, it probably wasn't entirely about having the flexibility to cut Tuck, but also about keeping as many of those six protected salary spots available for next year as possible. But, hmm, I just had a look at Seattle's money situation and they definitely can't keep both Langhorne and Tuck if they want to re-sign all four of Bird, Howard, Clark and Whitcomb. Barring some discounts, they probably can't keep either.

And it's not like Tuck proved herself as worth anything this season.



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Crystal - 13 games, 107 minute (<10 mpg)
Morgan - 10 games 88 minutes
Prince -15 games 190 minutes.

None of the above are worth keeping next year. They are the end of the end of the bench.....



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mayajustwins wrote:
tfan wrote:
Randy wrote:
FWIW. Basketball Ref.'s Advanced Stats show Parker beats Clark in 4 defensive metrics. Stewart beats her in all 5 and beats Parker in 3.

Code:
              DR%   Blk%   Stl%  DR   DWS
Parker        32.7   3.8   2     95   1.8
Clark         12.9   1.5   2.6   97   1.5
Stewart       26.4   3.8   2.7   91   2.0


I had to look up DR to see why lower was better: Defensive Rating (DR) = 100 / (TmPoss + OppPoss) * OppPts


Of course, that wouldn't be able to factor in the relative skills of the people being defended. So Clark would have an edge in degree of difficulty (to borrow a gymnastics term).


That case may help Parker even more . The Best players in the WNBA are Post players if MVP history means anything. Not SF's or SG's.



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 2:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not saying they should low ball Clark and Whitcomb, but I wonder if they could be somewhat enticed by the “We gave you a chance and let you develop when no one would” scenario in negotiations.



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PostPosted: 09/25/20 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Not saying they should low ball Clark and Whitcomb, but I wonder if they could be somewhat enticed by the “We gave you a chance and let you develop when no one would” scenario in negotiations.

Teams make decisions all the time that leave players out to dry for the good of the franchise, though. If someone wants to take less money to stay on a good team where you're more likely to win stuff - or even to help the team keep other people who make that winning more likely - I get it. But basically just doing it out of the goodness of your heart makes no sense to me. It's a business. Both sides know that.

Howard's going to get max offers elsewhere, no question. In Seattle's favour, were they to give her up, is that teams might even think she's good enough to do the Bonner move from last year and sign-and-trade something for her so she can get the supermax (if she demands/requests it). They might even just core her.

Clark might get something pretty close to the max. She's a bit of an odd case. Obviously very valuable to Seattle, and a very good player, but players with a usage rate of 12% don't usually get max money. Plus she's 33. They might come to one of those deals like Chicago did last year. Good money, bit below the max she can get, but close enough.

The problem is that that's something like 350k-400k for the two above. Bird has basically been paid the max she can get for years, including this year. Add that 221k on top and they're already in a position where they'd have to dump a Tuck or a Langhorne to have any chance.

So Whitcomb looks stealable to me, unless they let Howard walk or Bird retires. Apologies for taking this way off-topic for the thread.



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