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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/13/20 1:02 am    ::: Indiana Fever 2021 Reply Reply with quote

The Fever is the first team whose 2020 season has officially ended. Here are a few questions that will likely be talked about this offseason:
    Is Marianne Stanley the right coach to properly guide the Fever out of their miserable post-Catchings era?
    Is Teaira McCowan still the right fit under Stanley?
    Is it finally time for Candice Dupree to leave?
    What kind of players do the presumable foundational pieces Kelsey Mitchell and Lauren Cox (and McCowan) need around them in order to be successful?
    Who should be the team's future starting PG now that there appear to be two different candidates (Wheeler and Allemand [if she wants it])?
    Who should the Fever go after in the 2021 Draft?
    How, just how, does that sh!tshow of a defense improve to even just non-historic levels of bad? Razz



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miller40



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PostPosted: 09/13/20 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Catch has to improve as a GM as well. The draft decisions just left a hell of a lot to be desired.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/13/20 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

miller40 wrote:
Catch has to improve as a GM as well. The draft decisions just left a hell of a lot to be desired.

Cox is one of those rookies that can throw her rookie year in the trash. I think she has it in her to get properly settled in in 2021. Doyle I agree was a complete mistake. I liked Smalls better than Doyle.

The Fever have six (6!) draft selections in the 2021 Draft. So Catchings will have a big chance to show how creative she can get this coming offseason. For her beloved franchise's sake, she better proceed carefully...



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/13/20 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
miller40 wrote:
Catch has to improve as a GM as well. The draft decisions just left a hell of a lot to be desired.

Cox is one of those rookies that can throw her rookie year in the trash. I think she has it in her to get properly settled in in 2021. Doyle I agree was a complete mistake. I liked Smalls better than Doyle.

The Fever have six (6!) draft selections in the 2021 Draft. So Catchings will have a big chance to show how creative she can get this coming offseason. For her beloved franchise's sake, she better proceed carefully...


Doyle was a baffling pick at the time, that looks so much worse at this point (Dangerfield went two picks later).


Randy



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 6:49 am    ::: Re: Indiana Fever 2021 Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
The Fever is the first team whose 2020 season has officially ended. Here are a few questions that will likely be talked about this offseason:
    Is Marianne Stanley the right coach to properly guide the Fever out of their miserable post-Catchings era? NO

    Is Teaira McCowan still the right fit under Stanley? NO

    Is it finally time for Candice Dupree to leave? YES

    What kind of players do the presumable foundational pieces Kelsey Mitchell and Lauren Cox (and McCowan) need around them in order to be successful? A NEW COACH

    Who should be the team's future starting PG now that there appear to be two different candidates (Wheeler and Allemand [if she wants it])? TRADE ALLEMAND TO DC FOR MHA OR SIGN EMMA



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I gave up on the Fever when they Cut Laney in favor of Doyle , what type of airhead Sh*t was that . If Laney ends up being MIP someone needs to slap the FFO !



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I gave up on the Fever when they Cut Laney in favor of Doyle , what type of airhead Sh*t was that . If Laney ends up being MIP someone needs to slap the FFO !

I hate to say this but I would not want to be the person to slap Catchings. Whoever touches that woman the wrong way would catch a beat down.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I gave up on the Fever when they Cut Laney in favor of Doyle , what type of airhead Sh*t was that . If Laney ends up being MIP someone needs to slap the FFO !

I hate to say this but I would not want to be the person to slap Catchings. Whoever touches that woman the wrong way would catch a beat down.



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing #FACTS



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 09/14/20 11:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I gave up on the Fever when they Cut Laney in favor of Doyle , what type of airhead Sh*t was that .


You honestly expected Laney to be one of the better wings in the league?



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I gave up on the Fever when they Cut Laney in favor of Doyle , what type of airhead Sh*t was that .


You honestly expected Laney to be one of the better wings in the league?


Hindsight vision is a helluva drug! Wink Still, I do wonder how long Laney had this kind of play in her. Did she get dramatically better over the past winter/during lockdown? Or was Nicki Collen's Dream the only one that could unleash the beast?



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 1:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I gave up on the Fever when they Cut Laney in favor of Doyle , what type of airhead Sh*t was that .


You honestly expected Laney to be one of the better wings in the league?


No , but i honestly expect her to be better than Doyle at their on specific positions. Indiana Used SF's of Burke , Dupree (Why) , Vivians a few games . All in which Laney outplayed this season . Doyle on the other hand was most likely the worst player on the team this season . (Now here comes that poster showing me NET and PER averages that i dont care about, eyes matter most)



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 2:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I said at the time that I didn't like the Laney move, not that I expected her to produce what she ultimately did this season. No one did. Presumably they felt that they needed Doyle because with Wheeler out there was no backup point guard behind Allemand. But they could've cut her and just used Kelsey Mitchell (which is what they did most of the time anyway). Or they could've cut Mavunga or even Burke instead.

Also, I'm not going to judge them solely on this year, especially considering Cox's illness coming into the season, but passing on Carter for Cox might not be looked upon fondly in future, either.



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 09/14/20 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
No , but i honestly expect her to be better than Doyle at their on specific positions. Indiana Used SF's of Burke , Dupree (Why) , Vivians a few games . All in which Laney outplayed this season . Doyle on the other hand was most likely the worst player on the team this season .


I feel ya.

WNBA 09 wrote:
(Now here comes that poster showing me NET and PER averages that i dont care about, eyes matter most)


LMAO, shady shady.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In reality, Indiana probably cut Kea to keep Doyle. That didn't turn out well either, but it's a lot less painful than comparing Doyle to Laney.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 4:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
No , but i honestly expect her to be better than Doyle at their on specific positions. Indiana Used SF's of Burke , Dupree (Why) , Vivians a few games . All in which Laney outplayed this season . Doyle on the other hand was most likely the worst player on the team this season .


I feel ya.

WNBA 09 wrote:
(Now here comes that poster showing me NET and PER averages that i dont care about, eyes matter most)


LMAO, shady shady.


I love your understanding and glad you knew i was not referring to you as well ! Can everybody get a little #NATC Laughing Laughing



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I said at the time that I didn't like the Laney move, not that I expected her to produce what she ultimately did this season. No one did. Presumably they felt that they needed Doyle because with Wheeler out there was no backup point guard behind Allemand. But they could've cut her and just used Kelsey Mitchell (which is what they did most of the time anyway). Or they could've cut Mavunga or even Burke instead.

Also, I'm not going to judge them solely on this year, especially considering Cox's illness coming into the season, but passing on Carter for Cox might not be looked upon fondly in future, either.


At least Cox was mostly the consensus No. 3 pick. No one expected anything of Doyle, with the apparent exception of Catchings and Stanley.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 7:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is a hard question

Would Indy be better off without K. Mitchell?

I like Mitchell, but IMO she needs to shift to being a full-time PG to be effective. Mitchell is a 2 technically but with her at the 2 the team seems imbalanced.

IMO she is a scorer not too different from Ogunbowlae, Carter and Plum but

Ogunbowale is bigger and stronger
Carter is better at all the same things and plays PG sometimes
and Plum struggled until she improved her shooting and defense and switched more full-time to PG which I think has a lot to do with Laimbeer pushing her. Plum also benefits from playing with decent sized sg in McBride and a decent sized SF in T.Young and J, Young when she got moved off the ball.

Maybe if Indy had a bigger/better SF it could work?

Would draft Davis, Onyenwere, or Diddi Rchards help at the SF spot?

Are there any teams that might trade for Mitchell where she would be a better fit? And what would her Value be?


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 9:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

Are there any teams that might trade for KMitchell where she would be a better fit? And what would her value be?


Spooner, you’re working overtime getting every team to give up their #2 picks.

How about some ideas about trading the Liberty’s #2 pick? Johannes is starter quality and JJonesJr seems very promising. Where’s the trade ideas for Durr to seek a balanced roster for the Liberty? I think you could probably get one of your favs Mompremier for her, plus a rolling mop bucket with a wringer so you can give it to Hopkins for his reassignment at the Liberty organization. You think I’m tough on Reeve? If Hopkins was my coach, I’d be ripping him up and down errday. He’s sounding like he’s got forever to right the ship after a 2-20 season like he’s Mike Thibault or something, but I don’t think he should be given any longer than the typical women’s coach (which is around two years in the WNBA).



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

Are there any teams that might trade for KMitchell where she would be a better fit? And what would her value be?


Spooner, you’re working overtime getting every team to give up their #2 picks.

How about some ideas about trading the Liberty’s #2 pick? Johannes is starter quality and JJonesJr seems very promising. Where’s the trade ideas for Durr to seek a balanced roster for the Liberty? I think you could probably get one of your favs Mompremier for her, plus a rolling mop bucket with a wringer so you can give it to Hopkins for his reassignment at the Liberty organization. You think I’m tough on Reeve? If Hopkins was my coach, I’d be ripping him up and down errday. He’s sounding like he’s got forever to right the ship after a 2-20 season like he’s Mike Thibault or something, but I don’t think he should be given any longer than the typical women’s coach (which is around two years in the WNBA).


If Ch. Collier or other early entries do not declare I will definitely think of trade ideas for NY's lottery pick.

you know I enjoy coming up with trade ideas.

Speaking of trading #2 picks I think Dallas should try and move on from Jefferson maybe if Bird retires they could work out something with Seattle and she could reunite with Stewie and back up Canada but that is for the Dallas thread

I think it is fair to question Mitchell's value to the fever as well as in trade (as the idea came as a larger part of the discussion of value that K. Mitchell offers Indy though most of that was cut out from your quote). Indy needs to do something to get to the next level, as does Atl, NY and Dallas. I assume based on your response that you disagree with the premise that Indy might be better off without K. Mitchell even though you didn't state that or offer any positive arguments to that position. Which is fine, I did pose it as a question because I wanted to hear others thoughts on that.

NY is in a challenged spot with Durr opting out this year and coming of injury from last season so her value might be down, waiting for Durr to return and hopefully take a big jump forward is one of the possible ways NY improves in 21. I am not convinced we see Johannes for more than half a season if it all in 21 because of the Olympics (she did miss a third of season in 19 for Euro basket I believe) I will be happy to adjust that thought process when she does. I like J. Jones but think Durr's potential is higher so I would definitely wait and see before put Jones or Johannes ahead of her. OTOH I think Indy could improve by finding a decent trade for Mitchell which is why I brought it up.

IMO for Indy to work with Mitchell they need the right complimentary pieces maybe drafting a SF with size and shooting could help.




Last edited by J-Spoon on 09/14/20 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 9:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
IMO for Indy to work with Mitchell they need the right complementary pieces maybe drafting a SF with size and shooting could help.

I like Rennia Davis for Indiana's lottery pick, and I would think the Fever's GM as a former Lady Vol herself might like her too. Not a great shooter but she at least takes those outside shots, and can still take over a game on either end (plus, shooting is what Mitchell brings, so there's the complementary factor). Also physical enough to play the 4 in a smaller/situational lineup. I'm not really convinced Burke and especially Vivians will be part of Indiana's future at this point.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/14/20 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
IMO for Indy to work with Mitchell they need the right complementary pieces maybe drafting a SF with size and shooting could help.

I like Rennia Davis for Indiana's lottery pick, and I would think the Fever's GM as a former Lady Vol herself might like her too. Not a great shooter but she at least takes those outside shots, and can still take over a game on either end (plus, shooting is what Mitchell brings, so there's the complementary factor). Also physical enough to play the 4 in a smaller/situational lineup. I'm not really convinced Burke and especially Vivians will be part of Indiana's future at this point.


I like Davis in Indy as well, I also could see her in Atl and Dallas (NY as well but I am all in on Ch. Collier for NY at #1) so Indy might need some luck to get her.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 09/15/20 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
IMO for Indy to work with Mitchell they need the right complementary pieces maybe drafting a SF with size and shooting could help.

I like Rennia Davis for Indiana's lottery pick, and I would think the Fever's GM as a former Lady Vol herself might like her too. Not a great shooter but she at least takes those outside shots, and can still take over a game on either end (plus, shooting is what Mitchell brings, so there's the complementary factor). Also physical enough to play the 4 in a smaller/situational lineup. I'm not really convinced Burke and especially Vivians will be part of Indiana's future at this point.


I like Davis in Indy as well, I also could see her in Atl and Dallas (NY as well but I am all in on Ch. Collier for NY at #1) so Indy might need some luck to get her.



I Love Davis as well , she could easily be the ROY for 21' , but i dont think she fits with Dallas while we have Sabally. Their pretty much the same player with Sabally having an advantage with international comp.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 3:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Achonwa will have plenty of suitors if she doesn't do an extension

And imo it'd be in everyone's best interest if Achonwa leaves Indiana. It's especially not going to work if Stanley's gonna demand her post players like Achonwa take 3s. (Achonwa was 0-10 this season) Confused



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
pilight wrote:
Achonwa will have plenty of suitors if she doesn't do an extension

And imo it'd be in everyone's best interest if Achonwa leaves Indiana. It's especially not going to work if Stanley's gonna demand her post players like Achonwa take 3s. (Achonwa was 0-10 this season) Confused


I'd take that as an argument that Stanley should be asked to leave rather than Achonwa



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/24/20 6:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
pilight wrote:
Achonwa will have plenty of suitors if she doesn't do an extension

And imo it'd be in everyone's best interest if Achonwa leaves Indiana. It's especially not going to work if Stanley's gonna demand her post players like Achonwa take 3s. (Achonwa was 0-10 this season) Confused


I'd take that as an argument that Stanley should be asked to leave rather than Achonwa


Laughing touché. And not to switch languages again, but ¿por qué no los dos? Why not both of them leave? Razz

Luuuc wrote:
And if there's one word that comes to mind when I think of Achonwa's value, it's supermax.
Well, I mean ... I can't blame anyone for trying, anyway.

Laughing I mean, everyone's still figuring out relative value. Hartley got that max deal from Phoenix back in February that seemed highly based on predictive value - and sure enough, she was having herself quite a season. If a team overpays for Achonwa, maybe another team sees something in Achonwa the rest of us don't too.



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