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Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 8:06 pm    ::: Phoenix Mercury 2021 Reply Reply with quote

Well-fought season for the Mercury! Cool

The DT-SDS pairing was a success, and they carried the team without Griner.

Griner should be back, and they'll need her even more next season, when all the bigs who opted out return. But what about the forwards? They'll need to find players that can compete with the other great forwards the league to get to the Championship.

What else does PHO need? Question



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SCook



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 8:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They need a 3. Wonder if the goal is to develop Shatori for that position. Also need to figure out how to not be a 10 player roster.

I believe Diana is up for a contract renewal, as well as, Breland (if Phoenix plans to resign her).

Hoping that BG is back and that Bria has a smooth recovery.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This team played so much better after Griner left them than when she was part of the team. Taurasi's age makes it so you can't count on that for long, but it does make we wonder a little bit about how the FO and coaching staff will think about Griner's role/place with the team.

Is there a version of this team that is better if they trade Griner?


TotalCardinalMove



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Disappointing, but a lot of pleasant surprises.

I’d let Breland and Coffey walk. Someone like Allisha Gray would be a really good fit for the team.

I think Turner, Cunningham, and Smith all showed at different points of the season that they can be useful and step up when called on. Turner when BG left, and Sophie once she got inserted in the starting lineup when things were all out of sorts. Unfortunately, the latter two battled through injuries toward the end.

Skylar has got to make better decisions with the ball, and BG needs to come in more focused. Hopefully Diana can replicate this for just one more season. It definitely won’t happen now, but I really wish Sandy & Liz’s Australian team connection would have made her want to play for her in the W.

Having a 12 woman roster would really work wonders.


Tally24



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 09/17/20 8:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Too soon, will be back later. Crying or Very sad
WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Confused as to why consensus of Griner being back next season when she didn’t even return this season for unspecified reasons.



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SCook



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
This team played so much better after Griner left them than when she was part of the team. Taurasi's age makes it so you can't count on that for long, but it does make we wonder a little bit about how the FO and coaching staff will think about Griner's role/place with the team.

Is there a version of this team that is better if they trade Griner?


Unless there is some underlying issues with the Phoenix Organization and BG, trading her seems to be extreme.

With the team's success without her, the goal would be to incorporate her into the system or develop a system that strengthens both BG's attributes and the attributes of the new identity. This can be done by moving pieces around. (I.e. Starting Vaughan with BG instead of Turner because of her outside game. Making an emphasis on the team developing chemistry during the offseason, if they don't play in Euroleague. Playing with the lineups if Breland returns to determine what players best suit each other.)

During some of the games it was stated that the team was playing for BG and Bria. So why would you trade her without first trying to develop chemistry and making it work?



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
This team played so much better after Griner left them than when she was part of the team. Taurasi's age makes it so you can't count on that for long, but it does make we wonder a little bit about how the FO and coaching staff will think about Griner's role/place with the team.

Is there a version of this team that is better if they trade Griner?


In some ways this really isn't fair. Yes, the Mercury played better without her there..but was this because the team hadn't gelled yet? Even before she left, Diana had missed a chunk of games, and Bria had missed a chunk of games. Likewise, assuming Bria returns to form - IMO, there was a noticeable gap in her play once Brit left, and I think it was primarily because they played so well together.

I think something for the Mercury organization to think about however, is that I always kind of got the sense that once Taurasi is out - Brit might be out too. Just from comments here and there. A Turner/Griner/Hartley/Diggins core is a good one though. If Sandy can't figure out how to make Turner/Griner work - find someone who can. Turner is exactly the type of player Brit needs to play with.



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Confused as to why consensus of Griner being back next season when she didn’t even return this season for unspecified reasons.


You're right. It's far more likely she just quits or forces a trade.

This was a strange season. Do you anticipate every player who sat out or exited the bubble won't come back? She left pretty late in the season, with the quarantine procedures, there was never any likely hood she returned.

Griner has stated on several occasions how loyal she is to PHX. I don't see her going anywhere and I don't see the team trading her.


SCook



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
This team played so much better after Griner left them than when she was part of the team. Taurasi's age makes it so you can't count on that for long, but it does make we wonder a little bit about how the FO and coaching staff will think about Griner's role/place with the team.

Is there a version of this team that is better if they trade Griner?


In some ways this really isn't fair. Yes, the Mercury played better without her there..but was this because the team hadn't gelled yet? Even before she left, Diana had missed a chunk of games, and Bria had missed a chunk of games. Likewise, assuming Bria returns to form - IMO, there was a noticeable gap in her play once Brit left, and I think it was primarily because they played so well together.

I think something for the Mercury organization to think about however, is that I always kind of got the sense that once Taurasi is out - Brit might be out too. Just from comments here and there. A Turner/Griner/Hartley/Diggins core is a good one though. If Sandy can't figure out how to make Turner/Griner work - find someone who can. Turner is exactly the type of player Brit needs to play with.


I must agree. I believe the team finally found chemistry and that factored into their success. BG is not a player that you can step on the court with and magically achieve greatness without chemistry or experience. Diana said this when BG first arrived in Phoenix. Your game has to adjust in someway. Bria had instant chemistry with BG and that void altered her play drastically. She went from being extremely successful offensively to more of a facilitator and her shot seemed to struggle.

However, in recent years it seemed that DB became the constant for BG and now that is gone. Recently, she has been asked about her leadership when Diana leaves and we did see her step into that role as a vocal leader when she was there.

Absolutely! If Sandy cannot figure it out then find someone who can and who will. Apparently Diana had some comments about the last play and deemed it Sandy's decesion. So.... I think Sandy may be on her last leg.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Version one stay the course

SDS/Hartley
DT/Peddy
SWK/Cunningham
Turner/Smith/Brealand or other FA (bring back Dupree?)
Griner/Vaughn

pick #6 from Conn

possible SF options
Westbrook, Richards, Gray

possible Combo/PG option
McDonalrd, Evans, Mangakahia

looks solid


Tally24



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 09/17/20 11:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon, give me some spicy options.

CP3 to the Merc for BG?
Tiffany Mitchell for a draft pick and Coffey?
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/17/20 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

full disclosure I think PX should keep Griner

but I will come up with some outside the box trades for her anyway

version two is the big BG trade ideas

#1

BG to Dallas for Sabally pick #3 and Dallas' first round pick in 22 (Could see instead of 1st in 22 Thorton, Harrison, KLS or Ndour but not sure it works with cap)

(Dallas might say too high but BG is a generational player I think they have to include Sabally as the high potential option and the lottery pick and the future pick PX can't take on too much salary the 22 pick also gives PX two picks in in a strong 22 draft to reload after DT retires to start a quick rebuild around SDS and Sabally. Dallas has to bet on itself with Ogunbowale and Griner as not being a lottery team, and maybe being able to pull a 3rd free agent like Ogwumike, Ch. Parker to create a big three (or Zahui B if all else fails).

PX
SDS/Hartley
DT/Peddy
SWK/Cunningham
Sabally/Smith
Turner/Vaughn

pick #3 Davis, Mack. Onyenwere

pick #6 McDonalrd, Evans, Mangakahia

PX becomes a bigger/better version of what they were running the 2nd half of this season with a more potent small ball line up

Dallas
Ogunbowale, Gray, Thorton, Harrison, Griner
Harris, Gray, KLS, Alarie, NDour, pick 5, pick 7
also room for a free agent to take it to another level. Swap out Harrison for Ogwumike and I am sure Dallas fans will be happy.


SCook



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hypothetically speaking, who would be a good coach to replace Sandy?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm surprised there's no discontent about SDS. She turns the ball over for no reason way too often -- on the last possession vs. Minnesota, of course -- and is not much of a defender. With both her and DT in the backcourt, it's too easy for opposing teams to find one or the other to attack.

But she does play hard, it appears, though not that smart.



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SCook



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm surprised there's no discontent about SDS. She turns the ball over for no reason way too often -- on the last possession vs. Minnesota, of course -- and is not much of a defender. With both her and DT in the backcourt, it's too easy for opposing teams to find one or the other to attack.

But she does play hard, it appears, though not that smart.


I believe it’s because people are looking at the success she did have after being out all last season. Also, she doesn’t have the most WNBA Playoff experience so I think people are giving her a pass. Plus, you know, trading BG seems to be everyone’s answer to all the problems.

Skylar’s lack of defensive ability has always been an issue and I don’t think Sandy is the coach that can develop her on that end. In my opinion, it’s my biggest issue with her. Sims owned the PG matchup and she just came back. Skylar needs to work on that and her decision making. She’s a hell of a scorer and can be a damn good play maker at times but she’s inconsistent and doesn’t show up.



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 12:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SCook wrote:
Hypothetically speaking, who would be a good coach to replace Sandy?


I don't think there are a lot of upgrade options out there. Obviously Sandy has benefited from her 2014 success and, as we've seen in the NBA, 5 years of playoff underperforming, signals that they should be exploring replacing her. This is a team with huge talent, albeit sometimes poorly cast supporting players, but it's really inconceivable they haven't at least made a finals since 2014.

Unfortunately, replacing Sandy is probably too little too late of SDS doesn't step into Diana's shoes next season.


miller40



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SCook wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm surprised there's no discontent about SDS. She turns the ball over for no reason way too often -- on the last possession vs. Minnesota, of course -- and is not much of a defender. With both her and DT in the backcourt, it's too easy for opposing teams to find one or the other to attack.

But she does play hard, it appears, though not that smart.


I believe it’s because people are looking at the success she did have after being out all last season. Also, she doesn’t have the most WNBA Playoff experience so I think people are giving her a pass. Plus, you know, trading BG seems to be everyone’s answer to all the problems.

Skylar’s lack of defensive ability has always been an issue and I don’t think Sandy is the coach that can develop her on that end. In my opinion, it’s my biggest issue with her. Sims owned the PG matchup and she just came back. Skylar needs to work on that and her decision making. She’s a hell of a scorer and can be a damn good play maker at times but she’s inconsistent and doesn’t show up.


I agree.

Wasn’t Brondello sold as a defensive-minded/specialist coach?


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PostPosted: 09/18/20 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Might as well let Taurasi be player/coach. She's gonna do whatever she feels like anyway.



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
but it's really inconceivable they haven't at least made a finals since 2014.


With the Lynx, Sparks, Aces, and Storm?



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
but it's really inconceivable they haven't at least made a finals since 2014.


With the Lynx, Sparks, Aces, and Storm?


Yes. The 2014 Mercury were the most dominant team in W history. Diana sat out 2015 and was severely limited in 2019. There's no excuse for the underachieving in the other years since then. There's no reason the core of DT, BG, and Bonner couldn't have been competitive with any of those teams. As they've showing in the 2018 playoffs, they were capable of beating the Storm. They fell short bit they were capable.


SCook



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
but it's really inconceivable they haven't at least made a finals since 2014.


With the Lynx, Sparks, Aces, and Storm?


Yes. The 2014 Mercury were the most dominant team in W history. Diana sat out 2015 and was severely limited in 2019. There's no excuse for the underachieving in the other years since then. There's no reason the core of DT, BG, and Bonner couldn't have been competitive with any of those teams. As they've showing in the 2018 playoffs, they were capable of beating the Storm. They fell short bit they were capable.


If you think about it, Phoenix did achieve success Post 2014 and then they hit a wall right after the 2015 season.

2014- Championship
2015- 20-14 (swept in the Conference Finals by Minnesota)* No penny or Diana
2016- 16-18 (upset Indiana and NY; swept in the semifinals by Minnesota)
2017- 18-16 (defeat Seattle; Upset Connecticut; Swept in the semifinals by LA) *No DB because of pregnancy.
2018- 20-14 (defeat Dallas; Upset Connecticut again, lose 2-3 to Seattle)
2019- 15-19 (Lose to Chicago) * No Diana & BG goes down in the 2nd quarter of the first round
2020- 13-9 (Defeat Washington; lose to Minnesota) *Lose BG after 12 games

In my opinion, things went downhill after Pree was traded and yet they still were able to find some type of success but not get over the wall. Is it coaching? Is it the lack of bench depth? What is it?



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 09/18/20 2:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
but it's really inconceivable they haven't at least made a finals since 2014.


With the Lynx, Sparks, Aces, and Storm?


Yes. The 2014 Mercury were the most dominant team in W history. Diana sat out 2015 and was severely limited in 2019. There's no excuse for the underachieving in the other years since then. There's no reason the core of DT, BG, and Bonner couldn't have been competitive with any of those teams. As they've showing in the 2018 playoffs, they were capable of beating the Storm. They fell short bit they were capable.


Okay, so we’re down to 2016, 2017, and 2018 for a Finals appearance.

2016, the Lynx and Sparks were so ahead of everyone in the league.
2017, no Bonner with Taurasi, Griner and.... Monique Currie? No real surprise there, IMO.
2018, they return Bonner and have a pretty decent year, no excuse here even though the Storm’s depth was a little stronger than the Mercury’s, IMO.



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Tally24



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 2:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just for the record, I am not in favor of trading BG. I just hope she still wants to be in Phoenix and her exit from the bubble had nothing to do with anything team-related.
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/18/20 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PX was pursing Charles in trade last season, Charles is a free agent now, is there any financial universe where PX could sign Charles (it would send Turner to the bench but if Charles and Griner each play 27-30 minutes it leaves 20-25 for Turner)

clearly can only afford 11

SDS/Hartley
DT/Peddy
SWK/Cunningham
Charles/Smith
Griner/Turner

pick #6

This would obviously be an all in on 21 (maybe DT's last season) kind of strategy


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