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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8946
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11145
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Posted: 08/05/20 11:03 am ::: |
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Sad ... and a way too familiar story. Motivating through fear and intimidation can work in terms of wins and losses, but there's more to coaching than wins and losses.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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OutdoorsKid
Joined: 14 Jul 2020 Posts: 38 Location: KY
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Posted: 08/05/20 2:38 pm ::: Re: Issues at Texas Tech |
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The Associate HC, Lowry, was removed from coaching duties in 2003 at U of New Mexico for player abuse allegations. Stollings was an Assistant at UNM time. So then fast forward a few years and Stollings is HC at TT, and Lowry is an Associate HC. Do the AD's do any homework at all in approving hires? Why would anyone in their right mind allow Lowry to coach again? Seems like an incredible lapse in judgment. And now leaving Stollings in a coaching position seems pretty questionnable. I hope that TT does an investigation, and then does the right thing here.
Here is another example of the same thing: Dana Eikenberg left SIU after player allegations of abuse and misconduct. Jody Adams was her assistant there. A few years later, Jody Adams becomes head coach at Wichita State and guess who appears first as DOBO and then Assistant? Dana Eikenberg. Adams (who gets married and is Adams-Birch) eventually gets asked to leave Wichita State, but not after facing allegations of player abuse and misconduct. https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article127612249.html Eikenberg is out of coaching at the moment, but Adams-Birch is back as an assistant at SIU. Again, why would anyone hire someone as a coach with these allegations in their history, particularly when there are other choices?
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adamj95
Joined: 09 May 2014 Posts: 2302 Location: East Grand Forks, MN
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Posted: 08/06/20 9:24 pm ::: |
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Stollings is out as head coach.
_________________ 4 time WNBA Champion, 3rd all time in Assists, Minnesota's own: LINDSAY WHALEN.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8946
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013 Posts: 1364
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OutdoorsKid
Joined: 14 Jul 2020 Posts: 38 Location: KY
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Posted: 08/07/20 6:42 am ::: |
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It did not take long after USA Today published their story. But apparently, TT had done an investigation of Stollings previously and did not fire her. These athletics directors that let this stuff go on should be fired, too.
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adamj95
Joined: 09 May 2014 Posts: 2302 Location: East Grand Forks, MN
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020 Posts: 427
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11145
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Posted: 08/07/20 1:29 pm ::: |
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Who knows why, but it appears a tipping point has been reached when it comes to the way colleges interact with the labor pool that drives their multi-million dollar programs.
Coaches are no longer given free rein to abuse young athletes, and institutions are being asked to explain why the athletes who generate revenue are undercompensated while mostly white administrators and coaches are paid very well.
For me, it would be a great first step for colleges to acknowledge the economic system that underlies athletic programs, which generate alumni interest and donations, and provide free marketing for the schools. Without undercompensating labor, the economics do not work, it appears, and it would seem the first step towards some kind of balance would be to honestly try to deal with the issues rather than pretending they don't exist.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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OutdoorsKid
Joined: 14 Jul 2020 Posts: 38 Location: KY
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Posted: 08/07/20 3:04 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Coaches are no longer given free rein to abuse young athletes, and institutions are being asked to explain why the athletes who generate revenue are undercompensated while mostly white administrators and coaches are paid very well.
For me, it would be a great first step for colleges to acknowledge the economic system that underlies athletic programs, which generate alumni interest and donations, and provide free marketing for the schools. Without undercompensating labor, the economics do not work, it appears, and it would seem the first step towards some kind of balance would be to honestly try to deal with the issues rather than pretending they don't exist. |
Agreed. Compensation in athletics for a lot of sports, and for athletics directorships and maybe a few other positions are way out of whack. The beneficiaries have largely been white people in those positions.
It's not just that students are undercompensated for what is essentially a full time job, but in a lot of cases, D I coaches won't let students take time away for summer internships, to travel to professional conferences related to their major in the off-season, and for a host of other activities that will help them find a good job after they graduate. Only a tiny fraction of all college athletes will go pro; the rest need jobs elsewhere. College is firstly about furthering one's education. But for too many athletes, the coaches expect it tobe firstly about their sport.
Maybe forcing schools to pay athletes for practice time, weight room time, playing time, required physical therapy, etc. will make them realize just how costly to the student it is to be under contract with the university to essentially perform. Most schools could not handle paying even minimum wage for all of those hours. Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round, make sports truly seasonal again and pay players for their time commitment. This, in turn, will allow schools to return to the idea of letting players practice together maybe for a month before the season starts, and then when the season ends, require no time commitment on the player's part until the month before the next season.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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OutdoorsKid
Joined: 14 Jul 2020 Posts: 38 Location: KY
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Posted: 08/07/20 5:20 pm ::: |
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[quote="Howee"]
PG4ever wrote: |
OutdoorsKid wrote: |
Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round.... |
I'm curious if anyone is apprised of how broadly this 'situation' exists: is it just in the more elite programs, all D1, etc.? |
About 10 years ago, I wrote a reference for a D I WBB player (starter - good player) at a mid-major to transfer to a D III school (a very academically elite school) for exactly this reason. Had players as advisees and all said they had class and bball, but no job, internships, etc. In summers, they were to be on campus in the weight room, shooting, etc. No internships allowed. Then just this year, at another university, another D I athlete, not in a power conference, a male, told me he left his sport for similar reasons -- he wanted and needed to work part-time in launching his career, and coaches said "no". The guy was good and he walked.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 08/07/20 7:05 pm ::: |
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Another program with history making a coaching change this offseason. I wonder if this one will give Goestenkors a call...
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OutdoorsKid
Joined: 14 Jul 2020 Posts: 38 Location: KY
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8946
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Posted: 08/07/20 8:02 pm ::: |
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Christine Brennan calling for the AD to be fired too.
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For many months, Texas Tech athletics director Kirby Hocutt knew there was trouble in his athletic department, specifically within the women’s basketball program. He knew a committee had reviewed numerous allegations of abuse against head coach Marlene Stollings and assistant coach Nikita Lowry Dawkins. He asked for and received a verbal report about the findings.
Weeks went by, and he did nothing. |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2020/08/07/texas-tech-ad-kirby-hocutt-needs-go-failing-basketball-players/3322481001/
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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OutdoorsKid
Joined: 14 Jul 2020 Posts: 38 Location: KY
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Posted: 08/07/20 8:15 pm ::: |
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Here's a very good example of why the profession of journalism matters. And yes, he needs to resign or be fired.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7372 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: 08/07/20 9:31 pm ::: |
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McCallie should have been fired from Duke when the "investigation" happened. AD should have been fired for the same reason: keeping an incompetent and abusive coach for WAY too many years.
_________________ Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63767
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ridor
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 1055 Location: Frederick, Maryland
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Posted: 08/08/20 8:18 am ::: |
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I think Kirby is enamored with the success of Men's program and has been neglecting the women's program.
It is interesting to note that nobody is saying that Stollings and Lowry Dawkins were the products of ... Nancy Darsch. There were some grapevines at OSU about the way she coached.
That's where Stollings and Lowry Dawkins learned from.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 08/08/20 9:36 am ::: |
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OutdoorsKid wrote: |
Maybe forcing schools to pay athletes for practice time, weight room time, playing time, required physical therapy, etc. will make them realize just how costly to the student it is to be under contract with the university to essentially perform. Most schools could not handle paying even minimum wage for all of those hours. Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round, make sports truly seasonal again and pay players for their time commitment. This, in turn, will allow schools to return to the idea of letting players practice together maybe for a month before the season starts, and then when the season ends, require no time commitment on the player's part until the month before the next season. |
And if schools are paying them for their time, then it would only seem right that the student-athlete pay to go to school, pay for gym rental/weight room fees, pay their coaches the going hourly rate for an individual trainer while they are receiving skill instruction, rent the gym for practices/workouts, pay their tutor(s) as needed, buy their meals, buy their plane tickets/bus tickets for road games, purchase their shoes/practice gear/uniforms, bring their own supplies for the training room, pay the trainer for all the work they do on them, etc.
Investing. That's what schools are doing with all the money they spend on them for everything (scholarship, books, travel, meals, housing, equipment, etc). That's what kids are doing with all the time they spend on everything .
I would just add that during my career as a coach (mid major and major), our kids were allowed to leave but just had to come back for summer camps, where they got paid well and treated like queens by the kids. It's not like it was a week of hell. We also had many players throughout the years that actually liked staying near the campus during the summers (heaven forbid) and working out and working a part-time job.
Many of your posts seem to paint a very negative image of athletics. I'm sorry you have all these bad experiences, but even though there are some issues that certainly need to be addressed, it isn't really as horrible as you portray. And yes, there are coaches that abuse their position of authority, abuse kids, etc...but there are bad apples in every single profession out there.
Lastly, yes, it is very time demanding to be a Division I athlete. Not everyone can do it. School, coupled with a high level sport would be the equivalent of working 2 jobs. It's tough. But also extremely rewarding. They challenge themselves to do things that the vast majority of people cannot do. They graduate with a degree and no debt. They get to travel the country and the world for free. They develop friendships and bonds that last forever. They learn leadership and teamwork skills that most people their age don't get.
Last edited by purduefanatic on 08/08/20 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 08/08/20 9:37 am ::: |
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Ah crap, double post.
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bucks4now
Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 723
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Posted: 08/08/20 9:52 am ::: |
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ridor wrote: |
I think Kirby is enamored with the success of Men's program and has been neglecting the women's program.
It is interesting to note that nobody is saying that Stollings and Lowry Dawkins were the products of ... Nancy Darsch. There were some grapevines at OSU about the way she coached.
That's where Stollings and Lowry Dawkins learned from. |
And Nancy learned from....Pat Summitt
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 08/08/20 10:06 am ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
OutdoorsKid wrote: |
Maybe forcing schools to pay athletes for practice time, weight room time, playing time, required physical therapy, etc. will make them realize just how costly to the student it is to be under contract with the university to essentially perform. Most schools could not handle paying even minimum wage for all of those hours. Then perhaps schools will reduce the amount of time required of student athletes, and instead of expecting student athletes to be under their control year round, make sports truly seasonal again and pay players for their time commitment. This, in turn, will allow schools to return to the idea of letting players practice together maybe for a month before the season starts, and then when the season ends, require no time commitment on the player's part until the month before the next season. |
And if schools are paying them for their time, then it would only seem right that the student-athlete pay to go to school, pay for gym rental/weight room fees, pay their coaches the going hourly rate for an individual trainer while they are receiving skill instruction, rent the gym for practices/workouts, pay their tutor(s) as needed, buy their meals, buy their plane tickets/bus tickets for road games, purchase their shoes/practice gear/uniforms, bring their own supplies for the training room, pay the trainer for all the work they do on them, etc.
Investing. That's what schools are doing with all the money they spend on them for everything (scholarship, books, travel, meals, housing, equipment, etc). That's what kids are doing with all the time they spend on everything .
I would just add that during my career as a coach (mid major and major), our kids were allowed to leave but just had to come back for summer camps, where they got paid well and treated like queens by the kids. It's not like it was a week of hell. We also had many players throughout the years that actually liked staying near the campus during the summers (heaven forbid) and working out and working a part-time job.
Many of your posts seem to paint a very negative image of athletics. I'm sorry you have all these bad experiences, but even though there are some issues that certainly need to be addressed, it isn't really as horrible as you portray. And yes, there are coaches that abuse their position of authority, abuse kids, etc...but there are bad apples in every single profession out there.
Lastly, yes, it is very time demanding to be a Division I athlete. Not everyone can do it. School, coupled with a high level sport would be the equivalent of working 2 jobs. It's tough. But also extremely rewarding. They challenge themselves to do things that the vast majority of people cannot do. They graduate with a degree and no debt. They get to travel the country and the world for free. They develop friendships and bonds that last forever. They learn leadership and teamwork skills that most people their age don't get. |
Excellent counterpoints, purduefanatic. |
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