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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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 Posted: 08/01/20 1:36 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
If Sabrina comes back after a month there will only be a week left. She might as well get the surgery now and be 100% ready next season.
I have a hard time picturing how a college season can take place. |
Yes (sadly) and yes (sadly).
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/01/20 2:10 pm ::: |
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| Yeah, she should really just sit out the remainder of the season. It's not like they'll be playoff contenders. With that being said, I do think they new to bring in another guard so they're not playing with just ten for the rest of the season. Boyd? Tiffany Bias? Wait for Stella Johnson to become available?
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 08/01/20 2:34 pm ::: |
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These quotes are from the most recent game thread:
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Lib have poor post offense. Stokes and AZB shoot a combined 0-10, 0-6, 2-2. Much of the scoring is simply street ball individual efforts by perimeter players. |
The post offense was lacking but I didn’t really get a “street-ball” feel. I thought the spacing and structure were good. The penetrations were mostly controlled. It’s just that without Sabrina that’s your best playmaker. |
I'm never quite sure what commentators or fans mean when they talk of things like spacing. To me, that's a sort of preliminary and static component of an effective offense. What's really important is what happens, through teamwork dynamics, after the initial spacing is established -- namely, what kind of player and ball movement effectively gets a player free for a high quality, high percentage shot.
Spacing is important for a proper fast break but, after that, the players have to execute effective dynamic player and ball movement to score. So also for a one-out-four-in spacing: The more important thing is what kind of movement dynamically happens after that static structure is established to put the ball in the hole.
Many times I hear commentators say there's good spacing just because the five offensive players are sort of equi-spaced around the three-point arc. But too often what teams do after that is either (a) jack up too many three-point shots, or (b) just pass the ball around the arc like a hot potato -- windshield wiper passing -- until the clock runs down and some player has to make an individual street ball play.
Who should have the highest shooting percentage in a classically good dynamic offense? I'd say the post players. They should be getting a lot of short shots via entry passes, lob passes, sophisticated back-to-the-basket shot moves, easy rebound putbacks, and free throws from aggressive internal collisions.
Look at the FG percentages of the Liberty posts after three games. Pathetic.
- Stokes: 28.6%
- AZB: 29.6%
- Holmes: 33.3%
- Shook: 36.4%
To me, this is indicative of a poorly structured dynamic offense. It doesn't entirely surprise me, however, as I've never seen sophisticated back-to-the-basket footwork from any of those four players. But still, they should be able to get more short scores than they are -- from properly timed dynamic ball movement, player movement, off-ball picks, rolls, cuts, passes into the post, and rebound putbacks.
Yes, it's still early and lots of new players. We'll see, but I haven't been impressed so far by whatever it is that NY's young coach is trying to do. Or the players' inherent talents to do it.
Last edited by GlennMacGrady on 08/01/20 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bluedevilaztecfan5
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 08/01/20 4:33 pm ::: |
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It's a bit staggering to ponder tomorrow's Liberty game against the Mercury.
Especially if Nurse isn't ready yet.
Veterans: Stokes, Zahui B., and Clarendon
Rookies: Walker, Willoughby, Jones, Odom, Shook, and Holmes
Not in Uniform: Ionescu, Nurse, Durr, Johannes, Han, Allen, and Talbot
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myrtle
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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| Posted: 08/01/20 4:55 pm ::: |
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I talked about spacing as well. Perhaps spacing is the wrong word. It's just a matter of being in a place on the court that makes sense to me in the context of what is happening elsewhere. I didn't like it in the first two games. I liked it last night.
Along those lines, that was one of the things I liked about Willoughby. She seems like she knows what she's supposed to do in this offense as much as anybody.
Shifting gears, I'm knocked down beyond belief by the Sabrina news. This was shaping up to be one of the most fun losing seasons ever. So much of what we needed to see from these players was what they can do when they get the right pass at the right time (including the veterans). Now we're not going to see that.
It's also going to be hard to judge the coaches, but it appeared to me that Hopkins put a little bit of posting up into the offense last night. I thought it was good that he showed some flexibility, because really, it's hard to imagine his pure philosophy working without better perimeter shooting, and that even includes our full strength roster.
Walt and the team need to know what to do when their best shooters are out, even going into the future. I know he's trying to instill his system, but I don't see much practical success coming from it, and if you're not getting anything to build on from the actual games, you're not accomplishing that much. I hope to see Walt demonstrate that he's a good enough coach to allow for other styles if it's best for the team. He has experience working with Cheryl Reeve's offense. I'm hoping he does what's best to showcase our players' talent so we can properly evaluate the players we have. I thought last night was a good sign.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/01/20 5:23 pm ::: |
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| If Nurse is out, we'll only have 9 players. Expect Walker to play some SG.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 08/01/20 5:34 pm ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
I talked about spacing as well. Perhaps spacing is the wrong word. It's just a matter of being in a place on the court that makes sense to me in the context of what is happening elsewhere. I didn't like it in the first two games. I liked it last night.
Along those lines, that was one of the things I liked about Willoughby. She seems like she knows what she's supposed to do in this offense as much as anybody.
Shifting gears, I'm knocked down beyond belief by the Sabrina news. This was shaping up to be one of the most fun losing seasons ever. So much of what we needed to see from these players was what they can do when they get the right pass at the right time (including the veterans). Now we're not going to see that.
It's also going to be hard to judge the coaches, but it appeared to me that Hopkins put a little bit of posting up into the offense last night. I thought it was good that he showed some flexibility, because really, it's hard to imagine his pure philosophy working without better perimeter shooting, and that even includes our full strength roster.
Walt and the team need to know what to do when their best shooters are out, even going into the future. I know he's trying to instill his system, but I don't see much practical success coming from it, and if you're not getting anything to build on from the actual games, you're not accomplishing that much. I hope to see Walt demonstrate that he's a good enough coach to allow for other styles if it's best for the team. He has experience working with Cheryl Reeve's offense. I'm hoping he does what's best to showcase our players' talent so we can properly evaluate the players we have. I thought last night was a good sign. |
I thought the adjustments by the coaching staff were evident and positive. If Laney hasn’t shot out of her mind, NY probably wins, and forcing Laney to shoot is generally not the worst scenario. Meaning if the game plan was to make her shoot, that’s the right plan.
2021 may prove to be the biggest improvement in winning percentage in league history. Considering we may have to improve from .000.
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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 08/01/20 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bluedevilaztecfan5
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
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| Posted: 08/01/20 5:35 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote: |
I didn’t listen to the presser yet, but this season De’Aaron Fox suffered a grade 3 ankle sprain. He was out for 5 weeks no surgery, and returned his usual speedy/bouncy self.
I’m not an ankle specialist, but hopefully she doesn’t require surgery if it’s a similar injury!
But 5 weeks is pretty much the rest of the season  |
I thought grade 3 is total rupture of ligament. If so, he didn't have grade 3. |
You’re right...grade 3 is a full tear of the ankle ligament.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/kings-deaaron-fox-sprains-ankle-out-least-week-nba-restart
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| Fox, the Kings' leader in both scoring and assists on the season, missed 17 games this season after sustaining a Grade 3 sprain on the same ankle in November. It took him time to regain his strength in the ankle once he returned, but the 22-year-old was rolling by the time the season was suspended in March due to the coronavirus pandemic. |
Perhaps the initial diagnosis in November was incorrect and the info was never corrected by anyone, or maybe he was really lucky in his recovery- returning to game action after 5 weeks.
It looks like grade 3 injuries take, according to some, a minimum of 3-4 months for full recovery.
Either way, wishing for the best for Sabrina!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 08/01/20 5:37 pm ::: |
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| She’s reportedly estimated to be out a month so I wonder if grade 3 itself has a variety of severities. Either way I’m for shutting her down but just saying.
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NYSports56
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| Posted: 08/01/20 6:28 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| I thought the adjustments by the coaching staff were evident and positive. If Laney hasn’t shot out of her mind, NY probably wins, and forcing Laney to shoot is generally not the worst scenario. Meaning if the game plan was to make her shoot, that’s the right plan. |
Based on results only (and not an adjustment that I observed), it appears that they also adjusted well to Laney when they realized she was killing them. She didn't do much down the stretch at all.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 08/01/20 6:32 pm ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| I thought the adjustments by the coaching staff were evident and positive. If Laney hasn’t shot out of her mind, NY probably wins, and forcing Laney to shoot is generally not the worst scenario. Meaning if the game plan was to make her shoot, that’s the right plan. |
Based on results only (and not an adjustment that I observed), it appears that they also adjusted well to Laney when they realized she was killing them. She didn't do much down the stretch at all. |
Agreed totally. Other than the outcome I thought the team looked very well prepared.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 08/01/20 6:51 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| She’s reportedly estimated to be out a month so I wonder if grade 3 itself has a variety of severities. Either way I’m for shutting her down but just saying. |
In my view, bringing back Sabrina for just a week or two would be nuts. I believe she's already proven that she's WNBA-ready. Of course she needs experience to settle in, but a week or two before an offseason won't change that.
I was really struck by what Jazmine Jones said in the postgame press conference about Sabrina giving other players helpful directions while on the court. That was Sabrina's THIRD game in the WNBA!
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NYSports56
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| Posted: 08/01/20 8:45 pm ::: |
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| Unless the Liberty are miraculously competing for a playoff spot when she's ready to come back, Ionescu should be shut down for the season. When it comes to sprains, the longer you can stay off them, the better it is.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 08/01/20 11:26 pm ::: |
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| I wouldn’t even bring her back if the playoffs were in the mix. There’s no way she will be near 100%. But no worries on that. They won’t be close. If they win 5 games with what they have left Walt should be coach of the year.
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NYSports56
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/02/20 1:11 am ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| Unless the Liberty are miraculously competing for a playoff spot when she's ready to come back, Ionescu should be shut down for the season. When it comes to sprains, the longer you can stay off them, the better it is. |
I know some will view my statement as heresy, but at this point I'd rather see the Liberty NOT make the playoffs and get the best possible first-round draft pick. I don't find it exciting to ponder the Liberty somehow finishing 8th (I can't imagine how) and then losing a first round, do-or-die game. I certainly wouldn't risk Sabrina Ionescu's health for that.
For me, being in the WNBA playoffs is only meaningful if you have a genuine chance to advance to at least the third round. I detest the way that many professional sports have evolved over my lifetime, with more and more teams qualifying for the playoffs. Eight WNBA teams out of 12 will be there? Ugh. Last year Phoenix made the playoffs with a record of 15-19. I find that ridiculous. It reminds me of college football bowl games--there are some like this every year--featuring two teams with .500 records. How about calling them the Mediocre Bowls?
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myrtle
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| Posted: 08/02/20 10:42 am ::: |
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| yes, I agree with Bob. Sometimes less is better. Top six? Or just go str8 to top 4. I guess I like top six so those that come on late in the season have a chance.
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toad455
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| Posted: 08/02/20 11:24 am ::: |
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| I mean, I knew we'd be a lottery team again, but without Ionescu, do we get a win this season? Are we taking Natasha Mack or Rennia Davis at #1 next year?
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/02/20 11:36 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| yes, I agree with Bob. Sometimes less is better. Top six? Or just go str8 to top 4. I guess I like top six so those that come on late in the season have a chance. |
I believe that no major professional sport should allow a team into the postseason if their final regular-season record isn't at least one game over .500. If you can't have a winning season, even a barely winning season, you should go home.
Imagine if the WNBA kept its same eight-teams-out-of-12 playoff setup (which I find ridiculous). So if team X were to finish 8th without a winning record, they would forfeit their planned first-round series against the 5th seed. This is the way I'd like to see professional sports work.
Of course I'm well aware that none of what I favor will ever happen in any major sport. The owners and TV networks want the maximum number of postseason games and the maximum number of teams competing right to the end for playoff spots.
Those of us who are old enough and are baseball fans remember when the National League and the American League each had eight teams. There were no "playoffs." To get into the World Series, you had to actually WIN the pennant in your league. That was it. So two baseball teams out of 16 had a postseason. Today in the WNBA eight teams out of 12 have a postseason. Two out of 16 seems genuinely too low a proportion, but eight out of 12 is way too high.
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TigerVol
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 08/02/20 11:47 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| She’s reportedly estimated to be out a month so I wonder if grade 3 itself has a variety of severities. Either way I’m for shutting her down but just saying. |
Those estimates are generally for "normal" people not athletes with top medical resources and the ability to rehab 24x7.
Still a tricky injury and probably won't really know until swelling goes down and they see how it responds to treatment.
And who knows what they are telling her. Is it 100 percent a month or 10 percent a month. Or at least a month and we will see.
The message gets managed internally and to the public for all sorts of reasons including the athlete.
Hope they do what is best for her long term health.
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bluedevilaztecfan5
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| Posted: 08/02/20 1:44 pm ::: |
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| Just want to show some love for assistant coach Kelly Raimon (Schumacher) for wearing that Black Trans Lives Matter shirt ❤️
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 08/02/20 2:21 pm ::: |
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| bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote: |
| Just want to show some love for assistant coach Kelly Raimon (Schumacher) for wearing that Black Trans Lives Matter shirt ❤️ |
Terrific. Really wonderful how so many professional athletes and coaches in various sports are taking a public stand.
Say Her Name: Sandra Bland.
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 08/02/20 2:30 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| The 2003 NCAA final really made me question the value of offensive rebounds. Tennessee was just throttling UConn on the boards. The LVs had 14 or 15 O-boards and got nothing out of them but more chances for offensive rebounds and some ugly Ashley Robinson FT misses. |
As a Monarchs Fan, I take offense to this. Offensive rebounding was our offense.
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