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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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 Posted: 07/27/20 8:20 pm ::: |
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| Personally if they play the anthem, I would rather they make a statement like kneeling. To me that is still saying, 'yes, it's my country, fucked up though it may be'. Walking off just seems to say 'I have no real hope for change so I wish I wasn't here'
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 07/27/20 8:37 pm ::: |
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Walking off before the anthem felt like a compromise. You're avoiding the image of everyone kneeling 132+ times this season. You're also kinda avoiding them breaking a rule that's actually in the rule-book (although I think walking off actually breaks it as well, they're just not going to make an issue out of it). But you're still making some level of statement by not standing there at attention as has been done for decades. It felt like a negotiated compromise.
Which then of course rather backfired when it got reported as "walked off during the anthem" and a bunch of people jumped on it and criticised them. Oh well. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/27/20 8:42 pm ::: |
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| Who are we playing the anthem for? There are no fans at the games and the players are leaving the floor.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 07/27/20 8:47 pm ::: |
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| I respect Brittney Griner's decision. Just as I respected the decision of the New York Liberty and Seattle Storm players to walk off the court on Saturday before the national anthem was played. In solidarity. Say Her Name: Breonna Taylor.
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 07/27/20 8:50 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Personally if they play the anthem, I would rather they make a statement like kneeling. To me that is still saying, 'yes, it's my country, fucked up though it may be'. Walking off just seems to say 'I have no real hope for change so I wish I wasn't here' |
Both sides have weaponized the National Anthem/patriotism. If the politicians in Washington want the National Anthem back, they should put in prision all the War Criminals who took advantage of actual patriotism in our country after 9-11, but that will probably never happen.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 07/27/20 10:49 pm ::: |
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| How a person or a team conducts themselves while the national anthem is being played would quickly become a non-issue if they would stop playing the anthem at sporting events. The U.S government does not make any professional sports leagues play the national anthem at their sporting events. They should stop playing that anthem and it will resolve a lot of problems for everyone.
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jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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| Posted: 07/27/20 11:00 pm ::: |
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| Personally, I think we should no longer play the national anthem during sporting events. Are these games really being played to honor our country? Please... They're played for the owners' pockets. The national anthem ain't being played before concerts, circuses, live theater, beauty pageants, so why bother?
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 07/28/20 1:19 am ::: |
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| jmvcity wrote: |
| Personally, I think we should no longer play the national anthem during sporting events. Are these games really being played to honor our country? Please... They're played for the owners' pockets. The national anthem ain't being played before concerts, circuses, live theater, beauty pageants, so why bother? |
In today's very unfortunate, very unhealthy, everything-is-politicized culture, this is now a reasonable position.
Whether one thinks the playing of the national anthem at sporting events is an appropriate venue to protest grievances or that it's an inappropriate venue, it doesn't help any sport to begin each contest with a very controversial opportunity for politicized player behavior. Science is now politicized, medicine in politicized, news is politicized, law is politicized, education is politicized, comedy is politicized. I don't think many sports fans want their favorite entertainment to be politicized too.
One argument against eliminating the anthem is that it has a very long history as a sports tradition, even though it has no tradition as a preface to other forms of group entertainment, and that traditions are important. I find this argument somewhat persuasive. Therefore, I think it would be a reasonable compromise get all sports to agree that the anthem will be played before the teams take the floor or field. This would keep alive the tradition but take away the stage for politically divisive behavior by the players.
Let the audience, where there is one, do whatever they want during the anthem, as they always have. |
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 07/28/20 7:56 am ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| How a person or a team conducts themselves while the national anthem is being played would quickly become a non-issue if they would stop playing the anthem at sporting events. The U.S government does not make any professional sports leagues play the national anthem at their sporting events. They should stop playing that anthem and it will resolve a lot of problems for everyone. |
Agree. I was against playing the national anthem before the kneeling. It was done to drum up patriotism during WWI and WWII. I think now they think it makes the sporting event seem more significant.
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4565
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 07/28/20 10:12 am ::: |
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| jmvcity wrote: |
| Personally, I think we should no longer play the national anthem during sporting events. Are these games really being played to honor our country? Please... They're played for the owners' pockets. The national anthem ain't being played before concerts, circuses, live theater, beauty pageants, so why bother? |
I agree. I've never understood why the Anthem is played before sporting events. It's not the Olympics. Pro and college players are playing for themselves and their teams.
But of course, right now, everything has become politicized (including science), so our country can't even have a rational discussion about this.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 07/28/20 12:49 pm ::: |
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| Science has been politicized for a very long time. Just ask Galileo or John Thomas Scopes.....
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/28/20 1:16 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Science has been politicized for a very long time. Just ask Galileo or John Thomas Scopes..... |
Trumpers definitely descended from the flat-earthers.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 07/28/20 1:35 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Science has been politicized for a very long time. Just ask Galileo or John Thomas Scopes..... |
This is absolutely right. To say that sports, science, news, education, etc., have "been politicized" suggests that there was some earlier, wonderful time when they were NOT politicized. Which is flagrantly untrue. In that earlier, allegedly wonderful time, the biases of our cultures and others--the sexism, the racism, the homophobia, and more--were rarely challenged. Now they are.
By WNBA players and by many people who aren't well-known athletes, entertainers, or politicians.
Did Jackie Robinson and Branch Rickey "politicize" previously segregated Major League Baseball?
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scrappy
Joined: 18 May 2006
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| Posted: 07/28/20 3:16 pm ::: |
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| i said bye to nfl before. i have no problem saying saying bye nba and wnba.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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Location: NorCal
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| Posted: 07/28/20 3:46 pm ::: |
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If players have a problem with respecting the National Anthem then they should also not represent the USA in the Olympics. Lets see how dedicated they would be under those conditions.
All of this using ones platform business just goes to show how much society has come to overvalue their athletes and people in the intertainment industry. Do what you are paid to do and do you personal thing on your own time. I wouldn't dream of subjecting my basketball or other sports playing on the general public. What makes these players think that they have any more insight than the rest of us. Do what you do best.
We constanly hear about multiculturalism and it's rational being that we need to embrace and respect other peoples culture and values. Well they seem to have forgotten the culture, values of a vast and tradtions number of people in this country.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/28/20 3:51 pm ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
| All of this using ones platform business just goes to show how much society has come to overvalue their athletes and people in the intertainment industry. |
Considering our current president is a reality TV star, I see no reason athletes shouldn't also present political opinions.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 07/28/20 5:45 pm ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
| If players have a problem with respecting the National Anthem then they should also not represent the USA in the Olympics. Lets see how dedicated they would be under those conditions. |
This is reductive and stupid, and ignores the obvious: these are league games, between club teams, in the same country. The national anthem shouldn't even fucking be played, in the first place.
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| All of this using ones platform business just goes to show how much society has come to overvalue their athletes and people in the intertainment industry. Do what you are paid to do and do you personal thing on your own time. I wouldn't dream of subjecting my basketball or other sports playing on the general public. What makes these players think that they have any more insight than the rest of us. Do what you do best. |
What sort of "Shut up and dribble" nonsense is this?
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 07/28/20 6:06 pm ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
If players have a problem with respecting the National Anthem then they should also not represent the USA in the Olympics. Lets see how dedicated they would be under those conditions.
All of this using ones platform business just goes to show how much society has come to overvalue their athletes and people in the intertainment industry. Do what you are paid to do and do you personal thing on your own time. I wouldn't dream of subjecting my basketball or other sports playing on the general public. What makes these players think that they have any more insight than the rest of us. Do what you do best.
We constanly hear about multiculturalism and it's rational being that we need to embrace and respect other peoples culture and values. Well they seem to have forgotten the culture, values of a vast and tradtions number of people in this country. |
And people have chosen to not play for their country due to reasons beyond the sport, including some of the players currently in the league.
And you say the players should only do what they do best, do you also say that about all the people that talk about politics that are not in politics. Or all these people providing “insight” on on the Coronavirus do you think the shouldn’t be talking because they aren’t in the medical field.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 07/28/20 7:28 pm ::: |
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Suppose a physician wants to speak out on important political issues. Suppose an electrician does, a chef, a nursery school teacher. Should they shut up and just stick to "what they do best"? Utter nonsense. In a democracy, everyone should have the right to speak out on what they feel is important. That includes professional athletes and Hollywood actors.
Say Her Name: Breonna Taylor.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 07/28/20 10:10 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Suppose a physician wants to speak out on important political issues. Suppose an electrician does, a chef, a nursery school teacher. Should they shut up and just stick to "what they do best"? Utter nonsense. In a democracy, everyone should have the right to speak out on what they feel is important. That includes professional athletes and Hollywood actors. |
Don't be ridiculous, Bob. Clearly, the only correct course of action is for nobody to ever be allowed to express an opinion on anything other than what they do for a living, ever again. </sarcasm>
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 07/28/20 11:16 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
Suppose a physician wants to speak out on important political issues. Suppose an electrician does, a chef, a nursery school teacher. Should they shut up and just stick to "what they do best"? Utter nonsense. In a democracy, everyone should have the right to speak out on what they feel is important. That includes professional athletes and Hollywood actors.
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I don't really understand this argument. All these people do have a right to speak out on any issue they want.
On their own time, on their own watch, and on their own dollar. Not mine, or yours.
Bob, I really doubt that you'd ever hire again an electrician, whom you are paying to do a job, who gives speeches against abortion before he unplugs your toilet. I doubt you'd return to restaurant where the chef and entire staff lectured the room before every meal on the dangers of Mexican immigrants. And I doubt that you'd enroll your daughter in a nursery school where the teacher began each day with a lesson on the immorality of homosexuality.
Athletes are being paid to do one specific job during job time: play a game for the entertainment of all fans. The fans, one way or another, are paying the salaries. At least half the fans don't want political spectacles before the two hours of non-political entertainment they are paying for. And, again, the athletes can politic all they want in the 99% of their lives during which they are not on the job. |
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 07/28/20 11:22 pm ::: |
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| You guys have electric toilets?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 07/28/20 11:37 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Suppose a physician wants to speak out on important political issues. Suppose an electrician does, a chef, a nursery school teacher. Should they shut up and just stick to "what they do best"? Utter nonsense. In a democracy, everyone should have the right to speak out on what they feel is important. That includes professional athletes and Hollywood actors. |
Don't be ridiculous, Bob. Clearly, the only correct course of action is for nobody to ever be allowed to express an opinion on anything other than what they do for a living, ever again. </sarcasm> |
LOL. Great.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 07/29/20 12:25 am ::: Re: Griner will not be on court for national anthem this sea |
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| stever wrote: |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2020/07/27/brittney-griner-wnba-star-not-on-court-for-national-anthem/5519858002/
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"I honestly feel we should not play the national anthem during our season," said Griner, one of the top players in the WNBA and second in 2019 most valuable player voting. "I think we should take that much of a stand.
"I don't mean that in any disrespect to our country. My dad was in Vietnam and a law officer for 30 years. I wanted to be a cop before basketball. I do have pride for my country." |
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