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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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 Posted: 07/10/20 10:20 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| Could be worth a roll of the dice ... the resume is really good except for the lack of coaching experience. |
That's an awfully big except. |
In most cases, I'd agree. Lawson may represent that rare exception, though. Most of us have come to know her as the eloquent Lady Vol, Monarch, Olympian and broadcaster with excellent communication skills -- a biggie for a coach. Xs 'n Os? Certainly. I can't imagine her being shabby on the recruiting trail.
I can see Duke being smitten with her high profile in the game, and her traits as an academician are a good fit, too. LOTS going for her....they certainly could pick more poorly than Kara if they want to be dependent upon HC experience. (see: JPM)
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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| Posted: 07/10/20 10:54 pm ::: |
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| I kinda like it. It's a new direction if you want a fresh face. They could do a lot worse. I also think she'd be good at hiring appropriate assistants, which is hugely important...especially for someone without HC experience.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
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| Posted: 07/10/20 11:28 pm ::: |
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| I don't really mind the hiring of Lawson in & of itself, but I'm disappointed to see one of the few women in a men's basketball leadership position (coaching staff, admin side, etc.) leaving it - after a relatively short amount of time, no less. While it's possible she just didn't 'love' what she was doing, I'd hate for her reason for leaving to be that she just didn't see herself being able to be an NBA head coach anytime soon - and/or wasn't willing to wait.
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1216
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| Posted: 07/11/20 7:32 am ::: |
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| not thats its a huge thing, but she definitely coached more than 1 year if USA 3x3.
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4565
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 07/11/20 9:04 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| I don't really mind the hiring of Lawson in & of itself, but I'm disappointed to see one of the few women in a men's basketball leadership position (coaching staff, admin side, etc.) leaving it - after a relatively short amount of time, no less. While it's possible she just didn't 'love' what she was doing, I'd hate for her reason for leaving to be that she just didn't see herself being able to be an NBA head coach anytime soon - and/or wasn't willing to wait. |
I appreciate what you are saying, and I share the concern about women advancing in the NBA, but Kara (and every woman) needs to do what she determines is best for her. And the Duke WBB HC position is one of the most prestigious in WBB; something like this does not come along very often. (I suspect it's pretty darn lucrative, too.)
I've watched Kara play since high school. Duke would be getting a star. And now that the Terps are no longer in the ACC, if Kara gets this job, I might even become a Duke fan. (Hello rAf  )
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/11/20 9:27 am ::: |
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My personal experience with Lawson 15 years ago was that her public persona was markedly different than the way she dealt with people behind the scenes.
That said, it was 15 years ago, and people change.
But, as PU points out, lack of coaching experience, especially head coaching experience could be a factor. Coaching is more handling group dynamics than anything else, and being a head coach involves many different groups. It will be interesting to see how Lawson -- who doesn't appear to suffer fools gladly -- handles her new role. For the good of women's basketball, Duke, her players and Lawson herself, I hope she makes it work.
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4565
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 07/11/20 10:00 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
My personal experience with Lawson 15 years ago was that her public persona was markedly different than the way she dealt with people behind the scenes.
That said, it was 15 years ago, and people change.
But, as PU points out, lack of coaching experience, especially head coaching experience could be a factor. Coaching is more handling group dynamics than anything else, and being a head coach involves many different groups. It will be interesting to see how Lawson -- who doesn't appear to suffer fools gladly -- handles her new role. For the good of women's basketball, Duke, her players and Lawson herself, I hope she makes it work. |
Funny, but women who are assertive, tough, no nonsense, etc. often get smeared like this, while in men these are seen as valuable, praiseworthy strengths. And I say this from my many decades of experience as a woman in a white collar profession, where I saw exactly this double standard play out, time and again.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/11/20 10:07 am ::: |
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| CourtsideTix wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
My personal experience with Lawson 15 years ago was that her public persona was markedly different than the way she dealt with people behind the scenes.
That said, it was 15 years ago, and people change.
But, as PU points out, lack of coaching experience, especially head coaching experience could be a factor. Coaching is more handling group dynamics than anything else, and being a head coach involves many different groups. It will be interesting to see how Lawson -- who doesn't appear to suffer fools gladly -- handles her new role. For the good of women's basketball, Duke, her players and Lawson herself, I hope she makes it work. |
Funny, but women who are assertive, tough, no nonsense, etc. often get smeared like this, while in men these are seen as valuable, praiseworthy strengths. And I say this from my many decades of experience as a woman in a white collar profession, where I saw exactly this double standard play out, time and again. |
OK, how is that a smear? I use that phrase on occasion, and my sense is I've almost always used it about men.
It's also not necessarily a negative comment, so please explain. And I would love to hear an alternate phrase that would not be considered anti-female.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7821
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 07/11/20 10:25 am ::: |
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| Kara most likely operates just about like Pat. And like her Marine dad. How is that a bad thing? She'd be a tough, smart coach, but fair. None of y'all would want your team to face her, but you'd probably want your daughters to play for her. I hate that she would be going to DOOOOK (husband is a UVA grad but we don't root for them either) but what an improvement over JPM she'd be!
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7370
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 07/11/20 11:25 am ::: |
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| CourtsideTix wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| I don't really mind the hiring of Lawson in & of itself, but I'm disappointed to see one of the few women in a men's basketball leadership position (coaching staff, admin side, etc.) leaving it - after a relatively short amount of time, no less. While it's possible she just didn't 'love' what she was doing, I'd hate for her reason for leaving to be that she just didn't see herself being able to be an NBA head coach anytime soon - and/or wasn't willing to wait. |
I appreciate what you are saying, and I share the concern about women advancing in the NBA, but Kara (and every woman) needs to do what she determines is best for her. And the Duke WBB HC position is one of the most prestigious in WBB; something like this does not come along very often. (I suspect it's pretty darn lucrative, too.)
I've watched Kara play since high school. Duke would be getting a star. And now that the Terps are no longer in the ACC, if Kara gets this job, I might even become a Duke fan. (Hello rAf ) |
Hello Courtside! I appreciate your enthusiasm for Kara. I'm "wait and see" w/r/t her success as a head coach. Her first challenge will be convincing Joy Cheek Smith to uproot herself, husband and baby coming soon to be Asst (or Assoc) Coach at Duke.
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~rAf
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Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1739
Location: Seattle
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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Location: Washington, DC
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1362
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| Posted: 07/11/20 2:00 pm ::: |
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| It's way out of left field but I like it! Name recognition, reputation, demeanor ant attitude will all be huge boons for recruiting. There are 5 Top 25 players and another 8 in the Top 50 available in the 2021 class. It'll be interesting to see if she can pull a Niele Ivey and lock down a couple ballers in her first week.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16357
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 07/11/20 2:35 pm ::: |
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| Because hiring Teresa Weatherspoon, Sheryl Swoopes, Lindsay Whalen, etc., worked out so well.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8940
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| Posted: 07/11/20 2:35 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| It's way out of left field but I like it! Name recognition, reputation, demeanor ant attitude will all be huge boons for recruiting. There are 5 Top 25 players and another 8 in the Top 50 available in the 2021 class. It'll be interesting to see if she can pull a Niele Ivey and lock down a couple ballers in her first week. |
Will be interesting to see if any player changes her mind. I'd be a little scared right now if I was a coach that has a verbal from someone that had Duke on a final list.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15733
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 07/11/20 3:34 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| CourtsideTix wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
My personal experience with Lawson 15 years ago was that her public persona was markedly different than the way she dealt with people behind the scenes.
That said, it was 15 years ago, and people change.
But, as PU points out, lack of coaching experience, especially head coaching experience could be a factor. Coaching is more handling group dynamics than anything else, and being a head coach involves many different groups. It will be interesting to see how Lawson -- who doesn't appear to suffer fools gladly -- handles her new role. For the good of women's basketball, Duke, her players and Lawson herself, I hope she makes it work. |
Funny, but women who are assertive, tough, no nonsense, etc. often get smeared like this, while in men these are seen as valuable, praiseworthy strengths. And I say this from my many decades of experience as a woman in a white collar profession, where I saw exactly this double standard play out, time and again. |
OK, how is that a smear? I use that phrase on occasion, and my sense is I've almost always used it about men.
It's also not necessarily a negative comment, so please explain. And I would love to hear an alternate phrase that would not be considered anti-female. |
Gotta say, I saw that as a compliment from you, Clay. 
Now, I am curious though: was her *difference* in public/private personae a positive one or a negative one? We all know it's not unheard of for highly-driven, over-achieving (whatever that is) coaches to become beastly when High Standards aren't met. I'd hope that's not in her range.
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 1183
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| Posted: 07/11/20 3:47 pm ::: |
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| The only thing I don't like is that IF a man with the same resume' (mostly broadcasting, but still was a good player) got a women's gig, people would shit bricks. Don't tell me otherwise..there were already people starting anti-male WBB coaches when discussing candidates on Twitter. When women get bush league that, that's the stuff that makes ppl not take it serious. I'm a male and I support WBB all the way, but don't start any anti-male stuff...seriously.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 07/11/20 4:50 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| It'll be interesting to see if she can pull a Niele Ivey and lock down a couple ballers in her first week. |
That would be miraculous. Ivey had almost 20 years of proven, successful, high-level, DI recruiting experience and contact networks prior to becoming a head coach. I'm not aware that Kara Lawson has ever recruited anyone. Has she even talked to high school or AAU players or coaches since graduating from UTK? |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510
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| Posted: 07/11/20 10:20 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| It'll be interesting to see if she can pull a Niele Ivey and lock down a couple ballers in her first week. |
That would be miraculous. Ivey had almost 20 years of proven, successful, high-level, DI recruiting experience and contact networks prior to becoming a head coach. I'm not aware that Kara Lawson has ever recruited anyone. Has she even talked to high school or AAU players or coaches since graduating from UTK? |
I think she would have had to be careful, as a representative of UT, about talking with HS/AAU players in order to not fall afoul of NCAA recruiting regulations.
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 276
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| Posted: 07/11/20 11:37 pm ::: |
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| kara Lawson hired today....
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
Location: PA
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| Posted: 07/12/20 3:00 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| It'll be interesting to see if she can pull a Niele Ivey and lock down a couple ballers in her first week. |
That would be miraculous. Ivey had almost 20 years of proven, successful, high-level, DI recruiting experience and contact networks prior to becoming a head coach. I'm not aware that Kara Lawson has ever recruited anyone. Has she even talked to high school or AAU players or coaches since graduating from UTK? |
Not to mention that since Ivey had only been away from ND for one year with the Grizzlies, she had actually been involved in the recruiting of the players who committed so quickly. It wasn't like she was recruiting them from scratch.
It's a real shame that this year is likely going to be messed up due to Covid-19, with ND and Duke having new, untested coaches (at least as head coaches) and UNC in the 2nd year of their new coach. It would have been a really interesting season to watch.
However, when it comes to pandemics, better safe than sorry. As one of my brothers likes to point out, Basketball is a really bad sport to be playing with this type of disease, since the defender is generally in the opponent's face most of the game.
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greatgator
Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 142
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| Posted: 07/12/20 5:58 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Hello Courtside! I appreciate your enthusiasm for Kara. I'm "wait and see" w/r/t her success as a head coach. Her first challenge will be convincing Joy Cheek Smith to uproot herself, husband and baby coming soon to be Asst (or Assoc) Coach at Duke. |
Joy's husband Allen is an assistant coach with the Wofford football team (his alma mater). With their first child due soon, it doesn't seem realistic for Joy to return to Duke at this time.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11136
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| Posted: 07/12/20 9:38 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| CourtsideTix wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
My personal experience with Lawson 15 years ago was that her public persona was markedly different than the way she dealt with people behind the scenes.
That said, it was 15 years ago, and people change.
But, as PU points out, lack of coaching experience, especially head coaching experience could be a factor. Coaching is more handling group dynamics than anything else, and being a head coach involves many different groups. It will be interesting to see how Lawson -- who doesn't appear to suffer fools gladly -- handles her new role. For the good of women's basketball, Duke, her players and Lawson herself, I hope she makes it work. |
Funny, but women who are assertive, tough, no nonsense, etc. often get smeared like this, while in men these are seen as valuable, praiseworthy strengths. And I say this from my many decades of experience as a woman in a white collar profession, where I saw exactly this double standard play out, time and again. |
OK, how is that a smear? I use that phrase on occasion, and my sense is I've almost always used it about men.
It's also not necessarily a negative comment, so please explain. And I would love to hear an alternate phrase that would not be considered anti-female. |
Gotta say, I saw that as a compliment from you, Clay.
Now, I am curious though: was her *difference* in public/private personae a positive one or a negative one? We all know it's not unheard of for highly-driven, over-achieving (whatever that is) coaches to become beastly when High Standards aren't met. I'd hope that's not in her range. |
Lawson was just prickly, and didn't want to be interviewed or talk to reporters who were not high-level. She was never mean but was never approachable and never gave a hint that she would talk to a reporter as a person. It was clear that any question was a waste of her valuable time.
Again, this was a long time ago, and people change ... but your point about high standards is a good one. It's something all highly motivated, intense players must deal with when they become coaches, because the vast majority of people are not as highly motivated and not as intense. Adjustments must be made on both sides, and sometimes they prove to be simply too much for one or the other.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7370
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 07/12/20 1:16 pm ::: |
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| greatgator wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Hello Courtside! I appreciate your enthusiasm for Kara. I'm "wait and see" w/r/t her success as a head coach. Her first challenge will be convincing Joy Cheek Smith to uproot herself, husband and baby coming soon to be Asst (or Assoc) Coach at Duke. |
Joy's husband Allen is an assistant coach with the Wofford football team (his alma mater). With their first child due soon, it doesn't seem realistic for Joy to return to Duke at this time. |
That's a bit of a commute for him or her with the colleges being an hour apart and not sure where they're living. But if they have family close by, that might be a deciding factor with the baby coming. But recruiting doesn't involve travel right now so that shouldn't factor in.
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~rAf
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510
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| Posted: 07/12/20 2:15 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Lawson was just prickly, and didn't want to be interviewed or talk to reporters who were not high-level. She was never mean but was never approachable and never gave a hint that she would talk to a reporter as a person. It was clear that any question was a waste of her valuable time.
Again, this was a long time ago, and people change ... but your point about high standards is a good one. It's something all highly motivated, intense players must deal with when they become coaches, because the vast majority of people are not as highly motivated and not as intense. Adjustments must be made on both sides, and sometimes they prove to be simply too much for one or the other. |
The subsequent transition from player to ESPN reporter and analyst may have shifted her feelings about interviews substantially. And hopefully she will be approachable to the team and staff that she'll be leading.
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