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| How many players opt out? |
| Less than 10 |
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20% |
[ 7 ] |
| 10-19 |
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45% |
[ 16 ] |
| 20-29 |
|
22% |
[ 8 ] |
| 30-39 |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| 40-49 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 50-59 |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| 60-69 |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 70 or more (roughly half the League's players, or more) |
|
2% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 35 |
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| Author |
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TigerVol
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 2209
Location: ATL
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 Posted: 06/23/20 3:18 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| TigerVol wrote: |
On the flip side - how stable are the overseas seasons looking right now?
And the soccer team could have easily avoided that outbreak had some younger players respected the self quarantine expectation vs going out to a bar/venue. |
Like I said, there are obvious counterarguments. With overseas leagues, few countries' virus situations are akin to the US's particularly unstable one. But at the same time, we might be the first country to get a vaccine to the masses and ultimately fully recover the quickest. So you're right, there's just as much uncertainty there as there is here.
I didn't realize that much of the soccer team foolishly went to a bar at some point. Though they probably contracted the virus there, there is still a nonzero chance a WNBA player gets it and passes it on no matter how air-tight the quarantining and League-wide 'bubble' is. Only so much can be controlled in an environment that'll still have, idk, 175+ League-related personnel? (players, coaches, trainers, refs, broadcast crews, etc.) |
Agreed on positive as well as negative uncertainty.
Yes - traced to the bar/venu not spread from training. There are some unhappy teammates right now.
Agreed. Though if uninfected ahead of time and with rigorous testing a lower chance of mass infection. Though "mass" is a Lowe number within a bball team than other sports.
Seems to be working with the German soccer league so far.
Not sure our leagues in the US will have the same success but we will see.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24352
Location: London
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| Posted: 06/23/20 3:43 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| I think there are a lot of fringe or below-fringe WNBA players that would pick up the phone in a heartbeat if a team came calling and wouldn't think twice about saying yes. The rare potential of a mass exodus could allow several players a once-in-a-lifetime chance to either get back into the League or get in it for the first time. I may be in the minority, but I think even if 50 or 60 current players opted out, each team would be able to find the bodies they needed to at least get to the minimum 11, even if you factor out non-North American/non-US players. If the season gets cancelled, imo it won't be because of too many players opting out. The level of play of course may not be pretty in that scenario, but once the virus happened it was never going to be 'picturesque' this year anyway. |
There's always a next (wo)man up. Team USA dredged up Khadijah Sessions from nowhere less than a year ago. Vegas only recently signed their own retired-from-basketball Marketing Specialist as a backup center. You can get to 30+ options just by looking at the players teams have cut in the last year or two. That's not really a problem.
The problem is that the players who are in a financial position where they can afford to opt-out, and who have the most to lose if they opt-in and then get sick or hurt, are the top-end stars. I think when we heard 77% voted for the plan, even if you did the maths and got 23% of 141 = 32, the instinctive thought was that it'd be okay if that was a fairly even spread of a few stars, a bunch of mid-level players, and a few kids. But if it's 32 of the top 40 players in the league? Yikes. They can find the bodies to replace them, but the star power disappears through the floor and the basketball could drop off badly as well. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63770
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| Posted: 06/23/20 3:50 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I wonder if player X's see's its teams top player's opting out if that would play a factor in them sitting out as well ? I wouldn't think so due to the money, but if competitiveness is a factor could that happen ? |
In the case of Brionna Jones, this is the last year of her rookie contract. Now she may have the opportunity to prove that she’s worthy of a larger contract like for instance Ndour got by having a decent year last season.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
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| Posted: 07/02/20 8:32 pm ::: |
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Though things can still change before teams leave for Florida come next week, the following teams have their entire rosters counted for: Phoenix, Los Angeles, Indiana, Chicago, Atlanta & New York. Notables missing right now are:
Liz Cambage, Las Vegas
Elena Delle Donne, Washington
Tina Charles, Washington
Leilani Mitchell, Washington
DeWanna Bonner, Connecticut
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis, Connecticut
Natasha Howard, Seattle
Epiphany Prince, Seattle
Kayla Thornton, Dallas
Shenise Johnson, Minnesota
Kayla Alexander, Minnesota
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 07/04/20 4:36 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Though things can still change before teams leave for Florida come next week, the following teams have their entire rosters counted for: Phoenix, Los Angeles, Indiana, Chicago, Atlanta & New York. Notables missing right now are:
Elena Delle Donne, Washington
Tina Charles, Washington
Leilani Mitchell, Washington
DeWanna Bonner, Connecticut
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis, Connecticut
Natasha Howard, Seattle
Epiphany Prince, Seattle
Kayla Thornton, Dallas
Shenise Johnson, Minnesota
Kayla Alexander, Minnesota |
Now just waiting on ten players if they opt-out or not. Would suck if a post opts-out as there really isn't anyone decent left to pick-up.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
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| Posted: 07/04/20 10:26 pm ::: |
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| The Women's Chinese Basketball Association canceled the balance of their 2019-20 season on June 10. Instead, they are planning to start their 2020-21 season in September. That means it overlaps with the WNBA schedule. This probably influenced Cambage's decision, and it could also affect anyone else who regularly plays in China -- such as Charles and Howard.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24352
Location: London
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| Posted: 07/04/20 10:47 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| The Women's Chinese Basketball Association canceled the balance of their 2019-20 season on June 10. Instead, they are planning to start their 2020-21 season in September. That means it overlaps with the WNBA schedule. This probably influenced Cambage's decision, and it could also affect anyone else who regularly plays in China -- such as Charles and Howard. |
Cambage was presumably intending to spend a maximum of 90 days playing outside the WNBA because there was a 30k Time-Off Bonus in her contract, and that's the max that can be allowed while still earning the bonus (the contract can specify anything from 0 to 90, but I have no idea what the number was in her deal). That plan could change now, of course. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
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| Posted: 07/04/20 11:36 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| The Women's Chinese Basketball Association canceled the balance of their 2019-20 season on June 10. Instead, they are planning to start their 2020-21 season in September. That means it overlaps with the WNBA schedule. This probably influenced Cambage's decision, and it could also affect anyone else who regularly plays in China -- such as Charles and Howard. |
Cambage was presumably intending to spend a maximum of 90 days playing outside the WNBA because there was a 30k Time-Off Bonus in her contract, and that's the max that can be allowed while still earning the bonus (the contract can specify anything from 0 to 90, but I have no idea what the number was in her deal). That plan could change now, of course. |
Even if Liz gets the full bonus, that’s $30k + $215k = $245k. I’d be surprised if Cambage doesn’t make a lot more than that in China. If her team’s offer was for the whole season or nothing, then it would still be worth skipping the WNBA. Of course, playing partial seasons is common overseas and China is no exception. Depending on the flexibility of team and player, it’s still possible to play in both leagues.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/05/20 7:13 am ::: |
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It was 215k including the bonus - she didn't have enough Years of Service for the supermax. My point was just that she and her agent wouldn't have bothered negotiating the bonus if they hadn't been intending to earn it. So the plan at that point was presumably to play no more than 90 days outside the WNBA.
Although frankly, I'm unconvinced that she ever intended to play in the WNBA this year. Galer was probably just smart enough to tell her to sign something, and maybe end up with the cash and/or the Year of Service anyway, even if she didn't show up. |
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 07/05/20 7:38 am ::: |
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| And of course 2021 has the Olympics, so she already has an excuse to sit out next year. Sucks for Vegas, but maybe they snag a post in next year's draft? Unique Thompson? But the 2021 draft is very thin on post players.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/05/20 9:42 am ::: |
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| Cambage’s agent should always encourage her to play in the WNBA, because it’s hurting her overall legacy. But I suppose Cambage can cry about that after it’s too late. Cambage is lazy by nature, so if she thinks she can scam (my conclusion) the WNBA for a big chunk of cash while staying home partying everyday through her depression, she’ll go for it.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 07/05/20 10:04 am ::: |
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| What's the current figure on players who have opted out?
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/05/20 10:35 am ::: |
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We're up to 10.
OPT-OUT
Tiffany Hayes, Atlanta Dream
Renee Montgomery, Atlanta Dream
Jonquel Jones, Connecticut Sun
Liz Cambage, Las Vegas Aces
Chiney Ogwumike, Los Angeles Sparks
Kristi Toliver, Los Angeles Sparks
Cecilia Zandalasini, Minnesota Lynx
Rebecca Allen, New York Liberty
LaToya Sanders, Washington Mystics
Natasha Cloud, Washington Mystics
Plus two coaches.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 07/05/20 12:18 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
It was 215k including the bonus - she didn't have enough Years of Service for the supermax. My point was just that she and her agent wouldn't have bothered negotiating the bonus if they hadn't been intending to earn it. So the plan at that point was presumably to play no more than 90 days outside the WNBA.
Although frankly, I'm unconvinced that she ever intended to play in the WNBA this year. Galer was probably just smart enough to tell her to sign something, and maybe end up with the cash and/or the Year of Service anyway, even if she didn't show up. |
The point I was making is that the Chinese schedule changed late in the process -- early June is way past the time when contracts are negotiated. By then, teams already had their 12 player roster. Regardless of what Cambage and her agent were scheming, it must have been at least a mild surprise when the WCBA decided to start their 2020-2021 season in September. Up until their announcement in June, the WCBA was still officially trying to finish their 2019-20 season. If that happened, it's more likely they would have begun 2020-21 at a later date -- possibly October. Not that anything is set in stone at this point. We see tentative scheduling for all sports in all countries. But I still think China suddenly starting in September came as a surprise. It adds another wrinkle to the decision-making process for players like Cambage, Charles, and Howard.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5377
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 07/05/20 2:04 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
We're up to 10.
OPT-OUT
Tiffany Hayes, Atlanta Dream
Renee Montgomery, Atlanta Dream
Jonquel Jones, Connecticut Sun
Liz Cambage, Las Vegas Aces
Chiney Ogwumike, Los Angeles Sparks
Kristi Toliver, Los Angeles Sparks
Cecilia Zandalasini, Minnesota Lynx
Rebecca Allen, New York Liberty
LaToya Sanders, Washington Mystics
Natasha Cloud, Washington Mystics
Plus two coaches. |
Is Sanders the only player with a preexisting medical condition that prevents her from playing?
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3515
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| Posted: 07/05/20 9:42 pm ::: |
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| I'm surprised EDD hasn't opted out given her medical history.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24352
Location: London
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| Posted: 07/05/20 10:03 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| I'm surprised EDD hasn't opted out given her medical history. |
The list isn't done. And as Cambage's situation illustrates, one of the slowest groups to be dealt with appears to be the ones that required assessment by independent doctors.
One ridiculous scenario that seems to still be in play: Say Player X has asked to opt-out on health grounds, claiming she's high-risk for whatever reason and should therefore be paid. But then the doctors say she doesn't reach their threshold and will therefore receive no more cash if she doesn't play. Is she then allowed to change her mind? Someone like EDD would presumably swallow the lost money and live with it, because she makes plenty through various avenues. But what if you're, I dunno, Sophie Cunningham (name plucked entirely at random)? Maybe you need the damn cash. So if their doctors say you have to play to get the money, maybe you live with what you believe to be the higher risk and head down to Florida.
But unless all that shit has already happened behind the scenes and no one has said anything, that's still up in the air. Which would mean rosters are still in flux (even beyond the possibility that some players see what conditions are like in Bradenton and immediately say "screw this" and go home). Why has this taken so long? Why has the league been so fucking inept at telling us anything (even more than usual)? This hardly inspires confidence for how the whole bubble enterprise is being run... |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3515
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| Posted: 07/05/20 10:42 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| I'm surprised EDD hasn't opted out given her medical history. |
The list isn't done. And as Cambage's situation illustrates, one of the slowest groups to be dealt with appears to be the ones that required assessment by independent doctors.
One ridiculous scenario that seems to still be in play: Say Player X has asked to opt-out on health grounds, claiming she's high-risk for whatever reason and should therefore be paid. But then the doctors say she doesn't reach their threshold and will therefore receive no more cash if she doesn't play. Is she then allowed to change her mind? Someone like EDD would presumably swallow the lost money and live with it, because she makes plenty through various avenues. But what if you're, I dunno, Sophie Cunningham (name plucked entirely at random)? Maybe you need the damn cash. So if their doctors say you have to play to get the money, maybe you live with what you believe to be the higher risk and head down to Florida.
But unless all that shit has already happened behind the scenes and no one has said anything, that's still up in the air. Which would mean rosters are still in flux (even beyond the possibility that some players see what conditions are like in Bradenton and immediately say "screw this" and go home). Why has this taken so long? Why has the league been so fucking inept at telling us anything (even more than usual)? This hardly inspires confidence for how the whole bubble enterprise is being run... |
There are plenty of people in "essential jobs" who needed the cash and accepted the higher risk to get it during the past few months. This situation is hardly unique to the WNBA.
The rosters will be in flux unless all the players pass their COVID testing. At least 10 MLB players tested positive in the past few days and are in quarantine instead of "spring training."
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ripleydc
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 4778
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: 07/06/20 6:43 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| I'm surprised EDD hasn't opted out given her medical history. |
The list isn't done. |
When the Mystics board the plane today, we’ll know whether EDD (and others) intend to give this bubble season a try.
The lack of an announcement on her status one way or the other means nothing right now. Let’s see what happens.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/06/20 10:17 am ::: |
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| The Dream took buses to Bradenton
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/06/20 10:35 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| The Dream took buses to Bradenton |
Makes a lot of sense, avoiding commercial air travel where possible. My idea initially was to set up a few charter planes near major nexuses that most players could get to from wherever they were staying, then fly them down to Bradenton. That would've avoided needing 11 or 12 charters, or sending everyone commerical. But once it became apparent that basically every team was bringing their players together in their home cities before heading to Florida, that became largely unworkable.
Everything's pretty much become a budget version of the NBA's plan, which inevitably makes it less safe. Fortunately there are also fewer people involved, which lowers the chances for things to break down. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 07/06/20 12:13 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| The Dream took buses to Bradenton |
If they chartered a bus for them, it makes a lot of sense. I just hope the team didn't just give them tickets on MegaBus.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 07/06/20 3:00 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Though things can still change before teams leave for Florida come next week, the following teams have their entire rosters counted for: Phoenix, Los Angeles, Indiana, Chicago, Atlanta & New York. Notables missing right now are:
Liz Cambage, Las Vegas
Elena Delle Donne, Washington
Tina Charles, Washington
Leilani Mitchell, Washington
DeWanna Bonner, Connecticut
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis, Connecticut
Natasha Howard, Seattle
Epiphany Prince, Seattle
Kayla Thornton, Dallas
Shenise Johnson, Minnesota
Kayla Alexander, Minnesota |
I believe this removes Kayla Alexander from this list.
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