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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 06/26/20 10:18 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Seven rookies on a 12-player roster. Wow! That's got to be a WNBA record. |
The 1999 Mystics had seven players in their first WNBA season to open the season. Several of them were ABL veterans, so you might not consider them rookies.
Of course being grouped with 90's Mystics is usually not a good thing.
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Last edited by pilight on 06/26/20 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 06/26/20 10:20 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
A shortened season could be the perfect time to have a crapload of rookies. They often start out hot, and then fade as the league works them out. The shorter the season, the more value those early hot games have.
Seven on one roster is a little insane, though. |
I don't think it's insane. I believe that sometime back during the 2019 season Jonathan Kolb decided that 2020 had to be a complete rebuild. This was long before he knew he'd be able to get Sabrina Ionescu. This was long before anyone dreamed that the 2020 season would be shortened and iffy due to Covid-19.
In my view, Kolb decided at that time that Katie Smith had to go, that 2020 had to be dedicated to rebuilding, and perhaps way back then that it was time to move on from Tina Charles. In interviewing Walt Hopkins and any other candidates he considered for Smith's replacement, Kolb surely made that priority clear. Hopkins obviously bought into it.
Given that focus, for the Liberty the 2020 season becomes an extended tryout for the 2021 roster. Johannes, Han, Allen, and Talbot could all potentially return. (Though I'd guess only the first two.) Six of the seven rookies will be competing to show that they should be back and should have a significant role in a future, much stronger (we hope) Liberty team.
Indeed, some of the veterans are in the same battle. Will Kiah Stokes be on the 2021 Liberty roster? What if Asia Durr has a mediocre 2020 season? Looking at the current 12 active players, for how many beside Ionescu can we say: this player will definitely be on the Liberty in 2021?
Finally, if my thinking here is generally on the mark, I believe Jonathan Kolb made the right decision about a complete rebuild for 2020.
Kolb and Hopkins don't need all seven rookies to be impressive. I don't expect Sabrina Ionescu to be a star as a rookie, though I do in the future. As for the others, suppose two of them are very promising, two are OK and may be marginal WNBA players, and two are very disappointing. I think that'll be fine.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 06/26/20 10:30 am ::: |
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| Holmes is a great signing considering her upside & the state of the Liberty. Certainly a better roster for her to be on than the Storm’s. She’s also the closest thing to a 4 than any other rookie (if not player, period) on the roster imo.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 06/26/20 10:37 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Seven rookies on a 12-player roster. Wow! That's got to be a WNBA record. |
The 1999 Mystics had seven players in their first WNBA season to open the season. Several of them were ABL veterans, so you might not consider them rookies.
Of course being grouped with 90's Mystics is usually not a good thing. |
Thanks for this information. In what I was getting at, I wouldn't view ABL veterans as rookies. I assumed that no WNBA team had ever done what the Liberty are doing for 2020, with seven roster players who've only played college ball. For me at least it'll be fascinating to watch.
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bluedevilaztecfan5
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
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| Posted: 06/26/20 11:00 am ::: |
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I don’t mind this signing- she’s got potential, super athletic, big and strong. Our staff must be buying into their developmental skill building talents.
As others have said, it’s a rebuilding season and 7 rookies is one way to shoot for the future.
Ionescu/Clarendon- 9th year
Durr- 2nd year/Jones
Nurse- 3rd year/Willoughby
Walker/Odom/Holmes
Zahui B- 6th year/Stokes- 5th year/Shook
Can someone who watched Joyner more explain why she shot 41% from the floor?
I like the breakdown from the film room video, but it makes her look like she’s got great instincts inside, and a soft midrange touch. The narrator did mention Joyner’s poor decision making in transition when facing a set defender.
I’m just curious why the low FG% for someone who seems to have good form and touch (that goes for the career 61% FT as well)?
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bballjunkie
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| Posted: 06/26/20 12:33 pm ::: |
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41% because she can’t shoot, has poor shot selection and decision making 🤷♀️
Here’s what is blowing my mind. Why this many rookies from a class that is not known for good decision making or efficiency or understanding team basketball, seems like a waste of an opportunity to bring in players that could become a staple of the league. There is no time to teach these rookies who clearly have a lot of bad habits.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 06/26/20 1:05 pm ::: |
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| 41% because she can't reliably make layups and, as junkie says, poor shot selection. Sometimes she just randomly shoots when not really in position to do so. But j-spoon will be happy.
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WNBA 09
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 06/26/20 1:20 pm ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
Here’s what is blowing my mind. Why this many rookies from a class that is not known for good decision making or efficiency or understanding team basketball, seems like a waste of an opportunity to bring in players that could become a staple of the league. There is no time to teach these rookies who clearly have a lot of bad habits. |
You’re generalizing all over the place and simply wrong when it comes to efficiency. All of the Liberty rookies except for Holmes shot over 45% from the field. The only bad number in the entire group is Odom’s free throw percentage. Also note that Jones, Shook, and Odom were drafted for their defensive ability. Here are the college shooting percentages for the other six rookies (FG%/3Pt%/FT%):
Ionescu .518/.392/.921
Walker: .477/.451/.821
Willoughby: .451/.416/.870
Jones: .539/.378/.763
Shook: .463/.368/.763
Odom: .545/.375/.620
It’s really quite easy to address the issue head-on by naming names. Tell us which players should not be on the team and who should replace them. Then we can have a productive discussion.
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Bob Lamm
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Shades
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Lib Fan
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| Posted: 06/26/20 5:44 pm ::: |
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I wonder if Amanda Zahui B will have any problems flying over here ?
Sweden was a country that did not do "lockdowns" and now the
rate of infections is high.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/26/20 6:28 pm ::: |
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| Lib Fan wrote: |
I wonder if Amanda Zahui B will have any problems flying over here ?
Sweden was a country that did not do "lockdowns" and now the
rate of infections is high. |
Sweden was one of the few countries to do "herd immunity". Not sure when she was flying over, but she was 100% coming over.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 06/26/20 6:59 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Lib Fan wrote: |
I wonder if Amanda Zahui B will have any problems flying over here ?
Sweden was a country that did not do "lockdowns" and now the
rate of infections is high. |
Sweden was one of the few countries to do "herd immunity". Not sure when she was flying over, but she was 100% coming over. |
Rather ironic discussion. Are we going to say that Amanda Zahui B. is going from "unsafe" Sweden (in terms of Covid-19) to "safe" Florida? I won't.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 06/27/20 9:59 am ::: |
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| Odom took eight three-pointers as a senior ... she's never been a shooter, relying on her athleticism to get to the rim.
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stever
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root_thing
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| Posted: 06/27/20 10:48 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| Odom took eight three-pointers as a senior ... she's never been a shooter, relying on her athleticism to get to the rim. |
I haven't seen anyone claim that Odom is a shooter. Jones isn't really a shooter either. But knowing your limitations counts for something too. There are players out there who can't shoot who hoist up shots anyway. Now that Holmes is on the Liberty, I've been going back to watch more video of her. From what I've seen so far, Holmes suffers from trying to make too many highlight reel plays -- acrobatic shots and passes forced into tight spaces. She needs to exercise more discipline. So what a player doesn't do is also important for efficient performance.
Management has indicated that Jones, Shook, and Odom were drafted primarily for their defensive ability. All that's expected on the offensive end (for now) is that they pull their weight. As college seniors, these three players all scored in double digits while making at least 45% of their shots (regardless of type). I'm sure Liberty management will be happy with something similar -- good defense combined with enough offense to keep opponents honest.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 06/27/20 12:54 pm ::: |
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New York Liberty: What To Expect With Rebecca Allen Sitting and Joyner Holmes Signed
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The team had a -0.7 net rating with Rebecca Allen on the floor. They had a -12.0 net rating with Rebecca Allen off the floor. That’s an insane split, especially when you look at how the defense changed with her on and off the floor.
What Allen added defensively was something that wasn’t talked about enough. She has the length to play the four and the speed to guard multiple positions. That versatility just wasn’t there when the team was running more traditional front courts. For instance, the team had a defensive rating of 106.4 when Tina Charles and Amanda Zahui B.shared the floor, while the Charles/Allen had a 105.1 defensive rating and the Zahui B/Allen minutes had a 98.7 net rating. I think it’s pretty easy to argue that a front court of Zahui B and Allen has more versatility on defense than the other combinations, and that showed up in the advanced numbers. |
| Quote: |
I’m not sure how much Holmes will play this season, though, as she’s still a fairly raw prospect, and she doesn’t exactly fit the style of play that Hopkins seems intent on playing. Maybe she has some value as a small ball center, someone who can help push the tempo offensively and guard inside and outside on the other end of the floor.
More likely, though, is that this signing is less about what Holmes can do in 2020 and more about seeing if this coaching staff can develop Holmes into a player who can be a factor in the future. There’s a lot of things Holmes could be good at in the WNBA, but like with Odom, it’s going to take some time to draw those things out. |
https://netsrepublic.com/new-york-liberty-what-to-expect-with-rebecca-allen-sitting-and-joyner-holmes-signed/
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stever
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PickledGinger
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| Posted: 06/28/20 1:05 am ::: |
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| Outside of Ionescu, I feel like the coaching staff is just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. I can't imagine more than 4 of these rookies lasting more than 2 seasons, but I'm not gonna put money on which ones make it.
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stever
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Shades
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ClayK
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 06/28/20 12:14 pm ::: |
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Excellent, Clay. But is the piece simply these 12 short paragraphs? Or have we lost part of it? (I realize as a writer that sometimes you can be given a set word limit.) I wish the piece were longer. Thanks for posting this. Quite a tribute to the importance of coaching/teaching.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 06/28/20 1:07 pm ::: |
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That's all ... it's a general interest magazine and I'd done another piece on Sabrina for them last year. (My wife said the same thing -- but a word count is a word count.)
Thanks ...
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