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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 06/11/20 5:18 pm    ::: Six Square Blocks in Seattle Reply Reply with quote

Seattle Protestors Are Occupying 6 City Blocks as an ‘Autonomous Zone.’ Some Fear a Police Crackdown Is Imminent

Quote:
Amid ongoing national protests over the death of George Floyd, activists in Seattle have declared an “autonomous zone” in a six-block area of the city’s Capitol Hill neighborhood. The move comes after the Seattle Police Department (SPD) beat a tactical retreat from its East Precinct in the historic district on Monday.


Trump threatens to 'take back the city' if Seattle, state officials don't



Quote:
After several days of violent clashes between police and demonstrators on Capitol Hill, Seattle police reopened the streets so people could march in front of the East Precinct.

Instead, protesters have set up tents and have blocked streets.

The perimeter stretches from 13th Avenue past 11th Avenue, near Cal Anderson Park, and it runs from East Olive Street to East Pike Street.



Welcome to the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, where Seattle protesters gather without police



Quote:

Welcome to the CHAZ, the newly named Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, where most everything was free Tuesday.

Free snacks at the No-Cop Co-op. Free gas masks from some guy’s
sedan. Free speech at the speaker’s circle, where anyone could say their piece. A free documentary movie — Ava DuVernay’s “13th” — showing after dark.






Last edited by tfan on 06/11/20 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
pilight



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PostPosted: 06/11/20 5:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's shocking how the violence ended when the cops pulled out...



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Last edited by pilight on 06/12/20 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
bcdawg04



Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 06/11/20 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

While I can't speak to it from any personal experience, the Seattle Police Department has been under federal oversight since 2012 after a DOJ investigation found patterns of excessive force and policies that led to biased policing.

Trump is in no position to take "back" Seattle. I do have to wonder, though, what lengths he would and could go to try to bully Seattle into submission.


Shades



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PostPosted: 06/12/20 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JXjvrkmXd4s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 06/12/20 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OMG it's so QUIET in this thread I just don't... know... if... I can stay awake...

Drifting...

Drifting off in the quiet... wait. What's that? A dream? A remembrance of things past? It's coming into focus.

Oh it's just that darned Y'all Qaeda thread coming up on me.

sambista wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:


They're out in the sticks. So they also aren't a mass of hundreds looting and burning stores in a town or city.

We have protesters who disrupt all kinds of shit now in this country and YOU GUYS aren't griping that no one is putting a stop to those protests? Police didn't open fire on the crowds in Ferguson or Baltimore or Chicago. Do you have a problem with that? Then why do you have a problem that some crazy ranchers taking over some place in the middle of nowhere in protest and that there hasn't been an armed response to them? Because of racism. Or something.


it's really interesting how you turned your kaleidoscope till it fit your perception of rebellion and imminent threat - or rather, until this incident didn't rise to the level of rebellion and imminent threat.

how do you know what they are or are not, and what they're plotting to do or not do? what if this was a group of americans who happened to be muslim, but their declared protest was about something having nothing to do with being muslim? would anyone believe it?

what if it was a group of american indians? do i have to ask what if it was a group of black people? or spanish-speaking, documented, migrant workers? would anyone stop for one second (before grabbing guns and other armament) and say, "oh, no big deal. they're in the middle of nowhere"?

an armed, anti-government group has taken over federal property. when doesn't that prompt a response?




sambista wrote:
if another flavor of people took over a shed, as you call it, in the middle of nowhere, as you say, and proclaimed their right to rebel with firepower to back up their threat, we'd be watching this via chopper cam with law enforcement armed to the teeth to retake the shed and take down the militants.


sambista wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:


And you would want that to happen to those hypothetical black people?


you can call those hypothetical people anything you want. whether i'd want that to happen to them is also irrelevant. this is yet another mixed message to citizens.

and by the way, here's the "shed" you were talking about - a headquarters, a visitors' center and a museum. these militants are barring access to it all. they have taken control of federal property. i don't even know why anyone's watching local law enforcement do nothing. they don't have a single police car outside. this is a federal matter. in what parallel universe does this happen?!


Seattle?

norwester wrote:
But jammer, I feel like the "point" is flying over your head.

I'm upset because I imagine the response is such because of the race, religion and politics of the individuals involved. I believe that if the color of their skin were different, or if they professed communist or anarchist ideals, looked like they had a different religious affiliation (than Christianity) that this would be being handled and covered by the media completely differently. And THAT is wrong.
:


It's being covered by the media differently.

justintyme wrote:
norwester wrote:
I'm not upset because we aren't blowing these guys out of the water. We don't want another Ruby Ridge! Shocked

I'm upset because I imagine the response is such because of the race, religion and politics of the individuals involved. I believe that if the color of their skin were different, or if they professed communist or anarchist ideals, looked like they had a different religious affiliation (than Christianity) that this would be being handled and covered by the media completely differently. And THAT is wrong.


This is it exactly.

It is not the response here that is the problem, it's what the response would have been had these armed fellows not been white Christians. It becomes a perfect example of how there are a different set of rules for different classes of people. When people bring up "white privilege" this is exactly what they are talking about.


You don't say.

beknighted wrote:
I certainly don't dispute their right to engage in Constitutionally-protected actions, including protests and petitioning the government. I was fine with their march or rally or whatever it was, even if the people they said they were supporting didn't want them there. But just as I don't see any problem with arresting people on the left who occupy, say, a university building or a post office, I don't see any reason why a bunch of nuts who break into a building and then say they won't leave because the government won't agree to their patently ridiculous (or, less politely, utterly insane) legal theory shouldn't be arrested, tried and convicted for the laws they've broken.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 06/12/20 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not passing serious judgement on anyone for what they were saying back in 2016 about the Y'all Qaeda business, those were valid opinions at the time. But today, in this moment, the level of hypocrisy in the treatment of this story by the national media is stunning.

But... as an aside... I just wanted to point out that that thread contains what I honestly consider to be the greatest political rejoinder ever filed by the jammer in the courtrooms of Tennessee. Ever.

But you have to remember the moment to understand that. The takeover of whatever the fuck that was out in the woods there was the biggest story in the country for weeks. It was covered wall-to-wall in the same sick way that so many other stories are covered that the media decides has the right elements to capture their viewers attention and ignite their outrage or passions. This Bundy thing was all that.

And it also completely dominated social media and the progressive left who see these kinds of people as their most natural and perfect foils the universe in its perfection could have ever created and they piled on this story with an unwavering scorn dialed up to 111 degrees in the shade.

But at the same time, the New York Times published a piece, one of a kind of the investigative features they were publishing back then with a wonderful regularity on the great outrages of the New Gilded Age we are all still living in. They're not doing that so much any more. I wonder why.

But this story was a doozy.


For the Wealthiest, a Private Tax System That Saves Them Billions

Quote:
With inequality at its highest levels in nearly a century and public debate rising over whether the government should respond to it through higher taxes on the wealthy, the very richest Americans have financed a sophisticated and astonishingly effective apparatus for shielding their fortunes. Some call it the “income defense industry,” consisting of a high-priced phalanx of lawyers, estate planners, lobbyists and anti-tax activists who exploit and defend a dizzying array of tax maneuvers, virtually none of them available to taxpayers of more modest means.

In recent years, this apparatus has become one of the most powerful avenues of influence for wealthy Americans of all political stripes, including Mr. Loeb and Mr. Cohen, who give heavily to Republicans, and the liberal billionaire George Soros, who has called for higher levies on the rich while at the same time using tax loopholes to bolster his own fortune.

All are among a small group providing much of the early cash for the 2016 presidential campaign.

Operating largely out of public view — in tax court, through arcane legislative provisions and in private negotiations with the Internal Revenue Service — the wealthy have used their influence to steadily whittle away at the government’s ability to tax them. The effect has been to create a kind of private tax system, catering to only several thousand Americans.


So the New York Times ran this GREAT story about a private tax system that caters to only a few thousand Americans on their front page. And they did it right smack dab during Y'all Qaeda.

Now, we're the left, god-dammit! We're supposed to be all over shit like this ALWAYS AND FOREVER. Never letting any of this being exposed in the national media escaping our scorn or us taking this and stoking outrage and recruiting people to our side and calling for the heads of the rich and those in the government (Obama's government) who let things like this happen. This was a gift to progressives from the New York Times.

But there was nothing coming out of the rich kids who make up the part of the left and progressives who know how to be heard in this country. Nothing, I'm sure from Rachel Maddow or Steven Colbert or Trevor Noah or Samantha Bee all of whom were busy having a BALL with Y'all Qaeda. Not a thing on this New York Times piece.

So I said so in that thread and norwester, who I desperately miss, said something that I've heard so many times here on Rebkell's and seen from progressives especially when someone calls out their selective outrage.

norwester wrote:
I thought I already posted that article from the NYT about private taxes for the extra wealthy...can't I care about more than one thing at once?


To which I wrote the following...

So we've talked before about this I can care about more than one thing at a time that progressives pull out when you point out all the much more important stuff they're caring for quietly to themselves while they go publicly on about Cecil the Lion or these douche bags in sleeping bags.

And I'm SO glad you brought it up, my dear, once again, in this thread and on this issue.

BECAUSE .... because of the wonderful things it does... sorry.

Because it's bunk. And in all my days of thinking or being aware of it NEVER has there EVER been a moment that demonstrates so convincingly just how much it is BUNK. The reason it is bunk is that this isn't about you. At all. This isn't about what YOU can do more of than one at a time. I believe you! I know you.

This is about the world of progressives, Lefties, Paul P. Pierce and all the rest of them. And the national NEWS media. The bigs to smalls.

Because, you see, this rancher story broke right about the same time as the New York Times published this piece about the wealthy and their tax schemes. That's how we know it's bunk to assert that the Left can care about more than one thing at a time.

The New York Times piece named names. Provided beautiful color photography of the SUPERRICH scoundrels who they were calling out IN DETAIL as to their application of a privilege happening so up there in the rarefied air that it would make these dung smelling ranchers and the generous assortment of working class veterans who doubtless are drawn to joining Y'all Quada look like American heroes.

But what did the Left and progressives and the news media and even people here jump on as this week's biggest outrage of white privilege? Of course! These sorry ass ranchers out in the middle of nowhere. And let's get REAL. We want them fucking dead! Please import some Cleveland or Chicago police because those guys know how to roll up on a situation and get the KILLING over with without wasting any of our time.

THE WORLD... had the exact same time to react and respond with outrage over the New York Times piece. MAKE HOUSEHOLD NAMES of the family names of the perpetrators as we've done to The (appropriately named) Bundys. Create clever memes and funny cartoons and shit.

Same time for OTHER media outlets to pick up and run with the tax story as in the rancher story. To examine the various angles and debate the breadth and width of white privilege as has been done with these stupid (now certainly) stinking little men out in the middle of nowhere. Some of them crazy working class veterans. All of them undereducated hicks.


So that I can care about more than one thing at a time ... I'll give YOU that... but in terms of this story and the WORLD of politics, progressives, Left-leaning, The Political Correctors (I just came up with that, pay me. Wink ) and the news media at large... FOR ALL OF EVERYONE NOT NAMED NORWESTER... as Bill Clinton once said, That. Dog. Won't. Hunt.

There has been NO coverage that I can see anywhere in any other news media outlets of the New York Times piece or the deeper meaning or ramifications of having people at that level who are able to manipulate the tax system to their advantage to the degree that these asshats are.

The article names names and puts faces to the behavior and the lofty privilege. But what of the hundreds more? Who are they? What are we going to do about them? Show us their pictures!

But no. THIS week the really bad guys skate once again and here we are outraged over these stinking ranchers. Here, there, and everywhere.

So apparently YOU are able to care about more than one thing at a time. But all those who are supposed to be exposing to the light the gross unfairness and unjustness of how people utilize a system that is unequal to their advantage? Not in a million years.



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61652
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PostPosted: 06/12/20 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We'll see if the cops let the Autonomous Zone last as long as the 2016 standoff



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 06/12/20 9:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
We'll see if the cops let the Autonomous Zone last as long as the 2016 standoff


This is everything that standoff wasn’t. Including even being referred to as a standoff. It’s the Autonomous Zone. Capitalized.




_________________
Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61652
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PostPosted: 06/12/20 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
We'll see if the cops let the Autonomous Zone last as long as the 2016 standoff


This is everything that standoff wasn’t. Including even being referred to as a standoff. It’s the Autonomous Zone. Capitalized. [/img]


Well yeah. Those guys were all armed. Most of these people aren't. Those guys promised "a conflagration so great, it cannot be stopped, leading to a bloody, brutal civil war." These people expel those who are there "to fuck shit up." It's not quite as clean an analogy as you want it to be.



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The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 06/12/20 9:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
We'll see if the cops let the Autonomous Zone last as long as the 2016 standoff


This is everything that standoff wasn’t. Including even being referred to as a standoff. It’s the Autonomous Zone. Capitalized. [/img]


Well yeah. Those guys were all armed. Most of these people aren't. Those guys promised "a conflagration so great, it cannot be stopped, leading to a bloody, brutal civil war." These people expel those who are there "to fuck shit up." It's not quite as clean an analogy as you want it to be.


Not a clean analogy is right. It’s a takeover by a mob of six square blocks of a major American city including a police station. I’m not sure there’s ever been anything analogous to this and certainly not in the age of the 24 hour news cycle or the internet.

And we’re kinda sorta taking whose word for it that those who want to fuck shit up have been expelled? Who makes that decision? Based on what constitution? Who’s in charge imposing this mob justice in a major American city?

Because, pilight, TAKING OVER something, is by definition fucking something up. It’s called civil order. American democracy. Rights guaranteed to citizens under the constitution. Do you think every tenant or property owner or small or large business in that trendy six block area is happy being under mob rule?

Did they get a vote on this?



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
Luuuc
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PostPosted: 06/12/20 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So if I understand correctly, it's another case of colonialism?



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bcdawg04



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PostPosted: 06/13/20 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Quote:
As part of a package of stories Friday about the zone, where demonstrators have taken over several city blocks on Capitol Hill after Seattle police abandoned the East Precinct, Fox’s website for much of the day featured a photo of a man standing with a military-style rifle in front of what appeared to be a smashed retail storefront.

The image was actually a mashup of photos from different days, taken by different photographers — it was done by splicing a Getty Images photo of an armed man, who had been at the protest zone June 10, with other images from May 30 of smashed windows in downtown Seattle. Another altered image combined the gunman photo with yet another image, making it appear as though he was standing in front of a sign declaring “You are now entering Free Cap Hill.”

Fox’s site had no disclaimers revealing the photos had been manipulated. The network removed the images after inquiries from The Seattle Times.

In addition, Fox’s site for a time on Friday ran a frightening image of a burning city, above a package of stories about Seattle’s protests, headlined “CRAZY TOWN.” The photo actually showed a scene from St. Paul, Minnesota, on May 30. That image also was later removed.


You have got to be f*cking kidding me. That is unbelievably dangerous.

I'm not sure the group in Capitol Hill, as it currently is, has the focus to make any lasting, meaningful change. Durkan's war of words with Trump is all good (so far), but the city could use some real leadership from her in order to defuse the situation in a peaceful manner.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/13/20 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I read about some tents being erected, but it seems like these people are almost all commuters. For this CHAZ to last, people have to keep coming back to the area each day from where they actually live. That could peter out. That would be the least painful end and must be what the mayor is hoping for.

But the people who live in the area and businesses will get tired of their neighborhood having barricades closing streets and the large gatherings. And where is everyone going to the bathroom? There must be some legal action they could take against the city for abandoning their neighborhood and police station. But it is hard to sue the government.

The map that shows “CHAZ” in news articles is growing. I wondered why it didn’t include the adjoining park, and now it does, and also some small blocks to the west of the park. And I think another city block or two.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/14/20 3:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seattle police chief wants to retake precinct in occupied CHAZ 'as soon as possible'

Quote:
Best has accused the mayor of shirking her responsibilities as an elected official and allowing protesters to oust police officers from a precinct located inside the six-block radius now deemed a "cop free zone." Demonstrators have battened down for almost a week.

Attempts to identify the leaders of the organized demonstrations and negotiate a deal to allow officers back into the area have been unsuccessful.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 06/14/20 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Seattle police chief wants to retake precinct in occupied CHAZ 'as soon as possible'

Quote:
Best has accused the mayor of shirking her responsibilities as an elected official and allowing protesters to oust police officers from a precinct located inside the six-block radius now deemed a "cop free zone." Demonstrators have battened down for almost a week.

Attempts to identify the leaders of the organized demonstrations and negotiate a deal to allow officers back into the area have been unsuccessful.


JUST AS SOON AS IT'S POSSIBLE, PEOPLE!


Laughing



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Falsehood will fly on the wings of the wind, and carry its tales to every corner of the earth; whilst truth lags behind; her steps slow and solemn, she has neither the vigour nor activity to overtake her enemy. - Thomas Francklin
tfan



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PostPosted: 06/16/20 2:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brit Hume said on Shannon Breen's show that if this takeover was by MAGA or Tea Party folks it would be getting a lot more media coverage.

Although there has been a name change that has it as a protest, not a takeover. CHAZ is now CHOP, going from a Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone to a Capitol Hill Organized Protest. And it was reported that negotiations are taking place between the protesters and the city/police, suggesting that the protest would end if the city makes enough changes to their liking.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/23/20 2:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seattle mayor announces city will reclaim police-free CHOP autonomous zone taken over by demonstrators

Quote:
In the wake of two shootings last weekend -- one of them fatal -- Seattle officials announced Monday they plan to dismantle a six-block “police-free zone” held by demonstrators in the heart of the city for more than two weeks.


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