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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: 06/05/20 11:36 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| When Chauvin gets off or gets away with a slap on the wrist, the city might actually get burnt down. |
He would have a good defense if he stopped as soon as Floyd passed out. It is in their manual that you can do that (there would be an argument about whether it was warranted). But he went for another 2+ minutes and continued after another officer said he couldn't feel a pulse. Not sure if true as it seems so hard to believe, but I also read that the ambulance person had to slap his leg to get him to remove his knee. He was being filmed the whole time as well and there is a still of that video where he is looking right at the camera. Seems like he lost his mind. |
Also, who's going to be the a$$hole defense attorney to take on his case? I know there's some with no souls, but who's going to sign up for that? |
Public defenders don't have a choice. There is always somebody defending serial killers, child molesters, rapists, etc. The private defense attorney who defended Ted Bundy also defended a guy accused of killing 16 Afghan women and children and a guy on trial for binding and shooting 13 people in a Seattle Chinatown gambling club, along with other murderers and rapists.
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pilight
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| Posted: 06/07/20 7:47 am ::: |
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I did mean to come back to this. The first one isn't a cop and the second one isn't dead. No cops have been killed in these protests. Unfortunately, we can't say the same for the protesters.
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pilight
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| Posted: 06/07/20 9:04 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Also, who's going to be the a$$hole defense attorney to take on his case? I know there's some with no souls, but who's going to sign up for that? |
I was just thinking I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor on this case. If you accept a plea bargain that doesn't have significant prison time, Minneapolis will get burnt to the ground (along with some other cities). If you go to trial, you risk the Rodney King cops verdict.
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pilight
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tfan
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| Posted: 06/07/20 11:04 am ::: |
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Is there a clause in health insurance that allows them to deny for how the injury happened - as in it was “your fault”? Like if a 75 year old with a bad knee and arthritis went jumping on his grandson’s trampoline and tore an ACL it can be denied?
There is a case in San Jose where a black man who had worked with the police on something like their interaction with non-white communities got hit in the groin with a rubber bullet. It caused damage that sent him to the hospital and it may cause him not to be able to have kids. The police are told not to aim for the face or groin. In this case he was refusing to follow an order by a phalanx of cops who were clearing the area, and at least one of them appeared to be getting very annoyed, as in might intentionally shoot in the groin. But an insurance company - if they can fight it - could argue he wouldn’t have been injured if he had moved.
It is a good case of how policy could be changed to modify police behavior. If they were told to wait out a situation like that - take all the time that is necessary as he isn’t going to stand there all night - then they won’t be as angered if they are not obeyed. I don’t know why they were clearing the area - this is a city where the police were told to “stand down” when Trump had a rally here, allowing people to attack the Trump rally goers as they entered and exited. But it may have been at the point that the protesters started throwing water bottles and things at the cops. One went down from getting hit.
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FrozenLVFan
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| Posted: 06/07/20 11:40 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| Is there a clause in health insurance that allows them to deny for how the injury happened - as in it was “your fault”? Like if a 75 year old with a bad knee and arthritis went jumping on his grandson’s trampoline and tore an ACL it can be denied? |
Generally, no. A substantial number of health care claims are due to something that's the patient's fault, from subsisting on Big Macs to suicide attempts. However, a lot of other insurance policies, e.g. life, auto, and liability, exclude coverage for injuries that occurred due to criminal activity, war, riots, felonies, etc. So I’m not surprised health policies have similar exclusions.
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tfan
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| Posted: 06/07/20 2:29 pm ::: |
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Watch as Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey is Booed Out of BLM Protest to Chants of ‘Go Home, Jacob, Go Home!’
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| A protester asked Frey a yes or no question: would he commit to defunding the Minneapolis Police Department? The mayor’s answer did not satisfy the female protester, prompting her to tell him to “get the fuck outta here.” |
I had heard “defund the police” as being taking some of the money that goes to them and re-directing it to other areas. But when the mayor (inaudible) appears to ask for clarification on what is given to him as a yes/no question, the questioner says “What did I say? We don’t want no more police. Is that clear? We don’t want people with guns driving around our communities. Shooting us...” Two city council members have vowed to “dismantle” the police department. That word may leave them room to just cut the budget.
But I live on a city where the police just didn’t get the budget increases they were looking for. As a result I think they intentionally cut their service for non-emergency calls (service is below what they likely have the manpower to provide) in an attempt to get the budget they want. As an example, my complex had video of a guy stealing an expensive bicycle from a caged in rack, and they had no interest in coming out and looking and investigating. Just too busy...
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FrozenLVFan
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| Posted: 06/07/20 6:53 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
Watch as Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey is Booed Out of BLM Protest to Chants of ‘Go Home, Jacob, Go Home!’
| Quote: |
| A protester asked Frey a yes or no question: would he commit to defunding the Minneapolis Police Department? The mayor’s answer did not satisfy the female protester, prompting her to tell him to “get the fuck outta here.” |
I had heard “defund the police” as being taking some of the money that goes to them and re-directing it to other areas. But when the mayor (inaudible) appears to ask for clarification on what is given to him as a yes/no question, the questioner says “What did I say? We don’t want no more police. Is that clear? We don’t want people with guns driving around our communities. Shooting us...” Two city council members have vowed to “dismantle” the police department. That word may leave them room to just cut the budget.
But I live on a city where the police just didn’t get the budget increases they were looking for. As a result I think they intentionally cut their service for non-emergency calls (service is below what they likely have the manpower to provide) in an attempt to get the budget they want. As an example, my complex had video of a guy stealing an expensive bicycle from a caged in rack, and they had no interest in coming out and looking and investigating. Just too busy... |
Defunding the police means the things that will get cut are coverage for property and drug crimes and community outreach programs, which present opportunities for improving relationships with the public. And that guy in your post or his neighbors will be asking "Where's the police when we need them? They only respond to white communities."
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 06/07/20 7:28 pm ::: |
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In LA, the mayor, not normally the craftiest bird, threw the movement an empty PR victory bone. With the impact the coronavirus shutdown has had on city and state coffers, the talk when George Floyd was alive was all about the complete gutting of funding to so many departments and services. Seriously unprecedented draconian belt tightening unlike anything ever in California history, even the last time a Republican was in office. 
So in promising to cut police funding, standing their in front of BLM leaders and nodding your head obediently? In LA, the number being kicked around to shave from the LAPD was likely to have beEn 150 million six weeks ago._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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pilight
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Howee
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tfan
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| Posted: 06/07/20 9:19 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
Defunding the police means the things that will get cut are coverage for property and drug crimes and community outreach programs, which present opportunities for improving relationships with the public. And that guy in your post or his neighbors will be asking "Where's the police when we need them? They only respond to white communities." |
I am in San Jose, California. We probably won't have any issue with regard to special treatment for white communities as I don't know if there are any areas in the city that could be considered a white community. The whole city was 42.8% white in 2010 (total population 945,952) , but only 28.7% non-Hispanic white. I have to assume the latter number will be lower in 2020 as it has been declining for decades.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 06/07/20 11:30 pm ::: |
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Cops caught on video slashing tires of reporters at Minnesota protests. Lots of reports of them doing this to reporters' and protesters' cars alike.
And people wonder why the community has zero trust in law enforcement and how we got to the point where many are seriously considering something so extreme as to burn down the whole system and build something new on its ashes.
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pilight
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| Posted: 06/08/20 12:52 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
Cops caught on video slashing tires of reporters at Minnesota protests. Lots of reports of them doing this to reporters' and protesters' cars alike.
And people wonder why the community has zero trust in law enforcement and how we got to the point where many are seriously considering something so extreme as to burn down the whole system and build something new on its ashes. |
Since the city council has told them they're all going to be out of a job soon, I'd expect it to get worse.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 06/08/20 6:40 pm ::: |
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The issue of defunding police is obviously complex. Over the past 20 years the role of police has grown dramatically. Get police out of schools, I agree, but what takes its place. Get police and jails out of mental health and alcohol and drug abuse, but what takes its place.
I agree that the police should not have been militarized; repurposing tanks and other tools of war was a mistake and that should be undone for all but the most serious situations. I agree that the Rehnquist standard that gave rise to institutional immunity (Graham vs. Connor) must be tightened. I also believe that chokeholds and other similar police tactics should be banned. And I believe that police accountability must be increased through civilian review boards, public information on complaints and perhaps even a 3 strikes policy on officer misconduct.
But overall I believe defunding of the police is very likely to create more, not fewer, problems. Accountability costs money, training costs money, and getting more competent police costs money.
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toad455
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| Posted: 06/08/20 8:28 pm ::: |
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| It's a very slippery slope each town & city are facing right now. I do not think disbanding the police is the answer, but reducing their budget can be key. There also needs be a total overall of the police force. If you have X amount of infractions, it should be like any other job - suspended without pay, then termination.
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Howee
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| Posted: 06/08/20 10:16 pm ::: |
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I found this piece on pbs to be very enlightening.
I wasn't really clear on how to perceive the 'defunding' theories, but this gal in Chicago made a LOT of sense. And the $$$ figures tossed about are mind-numbing....I'd think there are some better ways to funnel that money into more productive channels than *just* Policing as we know it.
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FrozenLVFan
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| Posted: 06/08/20 11:59 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
I found this piece on pbs to be very enlightening.
I wasn't really clear on how to perceive the 'defunding' theories, but this gal in Chicago made a LOT of sense. And the $$$ figures tossed about are mind-numbing....I'd think there are some better ways to funnel that money into more productive channels than *just* Policing as we know it. |
I'm not sure how "community policing" is the sole answer. Who responds to an emergency call for armed robbery, a rape in progress, a woman who's locked in a bathroom with a spouse with a butcher knife on the other side of the door? Or even worse, drug cartels and terrorists with assault weapons? Who has the training and experience to investigate murders and rapes? If someone's trying to break down my front door, I want to call the police and not neighborhood watch.
As for funding, I'd bet all the training and budgets for the extra drug rehabs, mental health programs, and community policing will cost as much as a current police dept, and once this dust settles, I'd also bet we can't find enough people who want to be police officers or counselors, let alone trained ones.
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pilight
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| Posted: 06/09/20 7:17 am ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| If someone's trying to break down my front door, I want to call the police and not neighborhood watch. |
You'll be long dead by the time they get there. If someone's trying to break down your front door, you need a weapon.
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Genero36
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| Posted: 06/09/20 9:07 am ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="660" height="371" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EagEWcB3d-4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://youtu.be/EagEWcB3d-4
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Howee
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| Posted: 06/09/20 11:42 am ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
I found this piece on pbs to be very enlightening.
I wasn't really clear on how to perceive the 'defunding' theories, but this gal in Chicago made a LOT of sense. And the $$$ figures tossed about are mind-numbing....I'd think there are some better ways to funnel that money into more productive channels than *just* Policing as we know it. |
I'm not sure how "community policing" is the sole answer. Who responds to an emergency call for armed robbery, a rape in progress, a woman who's locked in a bathroom with a spouse with a butcher knife on the other side of the door? Or even worse, drug cartels and terrorists with assault weapons? Who has the training and experience to investigate murders and rapes? If someone's trying to break down my front door, I want to call the police and not neighborhood watch.
As for funding, I'd bet all the training and budgets for the extra drug rehabs, mental health programs, and community policing will cost as much as a current police dept, and once this dust settles, I'd also bet we can't find enough people who want to be police officers or counselors, let alone trained ones. |
Ya. It's definitely a complex problem that cannot be solved overnight, certainly not by merely re-allocating funds to 'feel-good' programs. BUT....it must be admitted: HUGE bucks are being sucked away by a system that is HARDLY working well. There's got to be a multi-level program reform, imo.
Like you, I want a police officer to come when I need them. But I live in a rural setting where that's, like, NEVER a need (I did have the cops come out one time, when a neighbor's dog killed some of my poultry for a second time, and didn't want to compensate me. Both officers were very helpful.  ) .
The large urban forces need to be re-thought, and re-constructed.
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 06/09/20 3:46 pm ::: |
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To be perfectly frank, some of that stuff I think could work and some of it is long overdue.
And on sort of another related thing, there’s a concern that the police are going to “pull back.” And yeah that’s going to happen. But that’s actually something that you can work with if you design into your revamped policy and procedures exactly how and where you WANT them to pull back.
But I’m not going to tell you guys my actual thoughts on any of this. I’m just going to leave you hanging._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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pilight
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tfan
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| Posted: 06/09/20 9:31 pm ::: |
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It's been a long time since I saw that show, but I felt the cops came off much better than the criminals on that show. But maybe that is the bad point.
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pilight
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| Posted: 06/09/20 9:37 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
It's been a long time since I saw that show, but I felt the cops came off much better than the criminals on that show. But maybe that is the bad point. |
The producers let the cops edit out anything that would cast them in a negative light.
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