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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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 Posted: 03/11/20 3:47 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
#MeToo is about broadening our understanding about what constitutes consent. As the Harvey Weinstein case has demonstrated, even "yes" doesn't always mean "yes" when the power balance between two people is so one sided.
A coach has such incredible power over a player with the ability to make or break a career that any sexual relationship is inherently imbalanced, no matter the willingness to be involved in it. So while we might have treated relationships in the past like titillating tabloid fodder, hopefully we understand it better now and react with the disgust it deserves.
The example I keep coming back to is the one I know the best: a professor being in a sexual relationship with an adult student or grad assistant. It's the same dynamic as the coach. The professor/student relationship would make any sexual relationship imbalanced, and makes any consent given murky at best. While the student's understanding about whether they freely consented or not is what would determine if any legal lines have been crossed and if it falls under the definition of sexual assault, no matter what they feel it is considered grossly unethical behavior and I know of no university in this way and age that would not fire a professor on the spot for it if it came to light.
| pilight wrote: |
| Relationships between coaches and players have never resulted in bans before |
Unfortunately, no. But the world had also changed and we have a much better understanding of these issues post Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo. Just because ignorant mistakes were made in the past, shouldn't condemn us to repeating them forever. |
Very well said, justintyme. All of it. I'd just add this. Feminists in the U.S. have passionately raised #MeToo issues at least since the 1970s. In the late 1970s, as one example, students at Yale--undergraduate feminists--became the first in the U.S. to bring their own university into federal court in a class action lawsuit on sexual harassment, Alexander v. Yale. Friends of mine were plaintiffs and attorneys in that case. I sat in court for three days to support them. Ultimately, the lawsuit was partly won and partly lost, but today remains a crucial legal linchpin in all Title IX activism on campuses regarding rape, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.
The parallel you've drawn between college faculty and coaches is exactly right.
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 855
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03/11/20 3:56 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
#MeToo is about broadening our understanding about what constitutes consent. As the Harvey Weinstein case has demonstrated, even "yes" doesn't always mean "yes" when the power balance between two people is so one sided.
A coach has such incredible power over a player with the ability to make or break a career that any sexual relationship is inherently imbalanced, no matter the willingness to be involved in it. So while we might have treated relationships in the past like titillating tabloid fodder, hopefully we understand it better now and react with the disgust it deserves.
The example I keep coming back to is the one I know the best: a professor being in a sexual relationship with an adult student or grad assistant. It's the same dynamic as the coach. The professor/student relationship would make any sexual relationship imbalanced, and makes any consent given murky at best. While the student's understanding about whether they freely consented or not is what would determine if any legal lines have been crossed and if it falls under the definition of sexual assault, no matter what they feel it is considered grossly unethical behavior and I know of no university in this way and age that would not fire a professor on the spot for it if it came to light.
| pilight wrote: |
| Relationships between coaches and players have never resulted in bans before |
Unfortunately, no. But the world had also changed and we have a much better understanding of these issues post Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo. Just because ignorant mistakes were made in the past, shouldn't condemn us to repeating them forever. |
Very well said, justintyme. All of it. I'd just add this. Feminists in the U.S. have passionately raised #MeToo issues at least since the 1970s. In the late 1970s, as one example, students at Yale--undergraduate feminists--became the first in the U.S. to bring their own university into federal court in a class action lawsuit on sexual harassment, Alexander v. Yale. Friends of mine were plaintiffs and attorneys in that case. I sat in court for three days to support them. Ultimately, the lawsuit was partly won and partly lost, but today remains a crucial legal linchpin in all Title IX activism on campuses regarding rape, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.
The parallel you've drawn between college faculty and coaches is exactly right. |
Thank you both for answering this. I could speak to the imbalance of power between a coach and player, but I know that I didn't know enough to speak to how this falls under the larger #MeToo movement.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 03/11/20 5:17 pm ::: |
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| BamaEd wrote: |
| Thank you both for answering this. I could speak to the imbalance of power between a coach and player, but I know that I didn't know enough to speak to how this falls under the larger #MeToo movement. |
You're welcome, but it's what justintyme said that's really crucial. Especially how "murky" any notion of "consent" is in a faculty-student relationship or in any hierarchical relationship on a job or anywhere else. In my view, any such relationship between a basketball coach and a player on that team is unethical even if the player states their "consent."
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Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6878
Location: Home
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| Posted: 03/12/20 4:07 pm ::: |
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| It's all about vanity folks. It has always, does and will continue to persist, right or wrong.
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7924
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| Posted: 03/13/20 4:37 am ::: |
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Well, this certainly is a hell of a way to kick off the 2020 Sparks campaign!
Given the present day medical pandemic, one wonders if there will even be a 2020 season.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Bing-town
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| Posted: 03/13/20 1:40 pm ::: |
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| How was Brian Agler in Seattle? Was there any abusive or inappropriate behavior?
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