RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Penny Toler files suit against Sparks
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/11/20 3:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
#MeToo is about broadening our understanding about what constitutes consent. As the Harvey Weinstein case has demonstrated, even "yes" doesn't always mean "yes" when the power balance between two people is so one sided.

A coach has such incredible power over a player with the ability to make or break a career that any sexual relationship is inherently imbalanced, no matter the willingness to be involved in it. So while we might have treated relationships in the past like titillating tabloid fodder, hopefully we understand it better now and react with the disgust it deserves.

The example I keep coming back to is the one I know the best: a professor being in a sexual relationship with an adult student or grad assistant. It's the same dynamic as the coach. The professor/student relationship would make any sexual relationship imbalanced, and makes any consent given murky at best. While the student's understanding about whether they freely consented or not is what would determine if any legal lines have been crossed and if it falls under the definition of sexual assault, no matter what they feel it is considered grossly unethical behavior and I know of no university in this way and age that would not fire a professor on the spot for it if it came to light.


pilight wrote:
Relationships between coaches and players have never resulted in bans before

Unfortunately, no. But the world had also changed and we have a much better understanding of these issues post Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo. Just because ignorant mistakes were made in the past, shouldn't condemn us to repeating them forever.


Very well said, justintyme. All of it. I'd just add this. Feminists in the U.S. have passionately raised #MeToo issues at least since the 1970s. In the late 1970s, as one example, students at Yale--undergraduate feminists--became the first in the U.S. to bring their own university into federal court in a class action lawsuit on sexual harassment, Alexander v. Yale. Friends of mine were plaintiffs and attorneys in that case. I sat in court for three days to support them. Ultimately, the lawsuit was partly won and partly lost, but today remains a crucial legal linchpin in all Title IX activism on campuses regarding rape, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.

The parallel you've drawn between college faculty and coaches is exactly right.



_________________
"Go out and fight so life shouldn't be printed on dollar bills."--Clifford Odets, Awake and Sing (1935)
BamaEd



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 484
Location: United States


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/11/20 3:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
justintyme wrote:
#MeToo is about broadening our understanding about what constitutes consent. As the Harvey Weinstein case has demonstrated, even "yes" doesn't always mean "yes" when the power balance between two people is so one sided.

A coach has such incredible power over a player with the ability to make or break a career that any sexual relationship is inherently imbalanced, no matter the willingness to be involved in it. So while we might have treated relationships in the past like titillating tabloid fodder, hopefully we understand it better now and react with the disgust it deserves.

The example I keep coming back to is the one I know the best: a professor being in a sexual relationship with an adult student or grad assistant. It's the same dynamic as the coach. The professor/student relationship would make any sexual relationship imbalanced, and makes any consent given murky at best. While the student's understanding about whether they freely consented or not is what would determine if any legal lines have been crossed and if it falls under the definition of sexual assault, no matter what they feel it is considered grossly unethical behavior and I know of no university in this way and age that would not fire a professor on the spot for it if it came to light.


pilight wrote:
Relationships between coaches and players have never resulted in bans before

Unfortunately, no. But the world had also changed and we have a much better understanding of these issues post Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo. Just because ignorant mistakes were made in the past, shouldn't condemn us to repeating them forever.


Very well said, justintyme. All of it. I'd just add this. Feminists in the U.S. have passionately raised #MeToo issues at least since the 1970s. In the late 1970s, as one example, students at Yale--undergraduate feminists--became the first in the U.S. to bring their own university into federal court in a class action lawsuit on sexual harassment, Alexander v. Yale. Friends of mine were plaintiffs and attorneys in that case. I sat in court for three days to support them. Ultimately, the lawsuit was partly won and partly lost, but today remains a crucial legal linchpin in all Title IX activism on campuses regarding rape, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.

The parallel you've drawn between college faculty and coaches is exactly right.


Thank you both for answering this. I could speak to the imbalance of power between a coach and player, but I know that I didn't know enough to speak to how this falls under the larger #MeToo movement.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3217
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/11/20 5:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BamaEd wrote:
Thank you both for answering this. I could speak to the imbalance of power between a coach and player, but I know that I didn't know enough to speak to how this falls under the larger #MeToo movement.


You're welcome, but it's what justintyme said that's really crucial. Especially how "murky" any notion of "consent" is in a faculty-student relationship or in any hierarchical relationship on a job or anywhere else. In my view, any such relationship between a basketball coach and a player on that team is unethical even if the player states their "consent."



_________________
"Go out and fight so life shouldn't be printed on dollar bills."--Clifford Odets, Awake and Sing (1935)
RavenDog



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6008



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/12/20 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's all about vanity folks. It has always, does and will continue to persist, right or wrong.


jap



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7576



Back to top
PostPosted: 03/13/20 4:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, this certainly is a hell of a way to kick off the 2020 Sparks campaign!

Given the present day medical pandemic, one wonders if there will even be a 2020 season.



_________________
Regards,
J A P
craigmont



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 596
Location: Bing-town


Back to top
PostPosted: 03/13/20 1:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How was Brian Agler in Seattle? Was there any abusive or inappropriate behavior?


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin