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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16358
Location: Chicago
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 Posted: 03/06/20 10:12 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
Maya article in Time
https://time.com/5793243/maya-moore-basketball-justice/
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Are you going to play basketball again?
Well I’m still in my time away and not really talking more about it other than I’m not playing this year. That’s just the best way to leave it. Sometimes you have to, like last year, just kind of sit in that “not knowing tension” of what the next chapter’s going to hold. But I’m comfortable right now just leaving it open for this year. |
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It would be great if she came back, but Minnesota would be foolish to plan on it.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 03/06/20 10:21 am ::: |
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| Reading that article, it seems she is so wrapped up in the Irons case that coming back would be pretty hard until there is a positive resolution of the case.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24348
Location: London
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| Posted: 03/06/20 11:35 am ::: |
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5+ minute video from Augustus taling about leaving Minnesota, for anyone who hasn't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uELYdOg0_fk
Didn't ask for the max, didn't go to LA just because they're a rival and it would piss of Minnesota. I still don't totally understand how the 'two businesses' failed to come to an agreement, considering she's said herself that the Lynx offered more money than LA. She's getting 110k, and could've got up to 215k from Minnesota. Is that a big enough gap for there to be a still-insluting figure somewhere in the middle? And if not, how the hell did Minnesota manage to piss her off enough in the negotiations to make her leave? Still strange. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/06/20 12:14 pm ::: |
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| To me, this video confims the notion that the Lynx left her hanging while they were looking for better options. Leaving her hanging is what made her open the door to other teams. It didn’t matter if the Lynx came back with a better offer. Money don’t always make up for hurt feels. You could tell she was hurt because she was going into how long she was there, back before the dynasty, back when “nobody was in that gym”.
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 03/06/20 12:49 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| To me, this video confims the notion that the Lynx left her hanging while they were looking for better options. Leaving her hanging is what made her open the door to other teams. It didn’t matter if the Lynx came back with a better offer. Money don’t always make up for hurt feels. You could tell she was hurt because she was going into how long she was there, back before the dynasty, back when “nobody was in that gym”. |
So basically Augustus was so upset that the Lynx were trying to sign Toliver that she was left with no other option but to leave the Lynx to join the team that signed Toliver instead. 😒
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 03/06/20 1:12 pm ::: |
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Having watched the longer video, you get the feeling that Cheryl said something(s) that really upset/pissed off Augustus during the negotiations. Because you can feel how heavily tied to the city and the franchise and her teammates Augustus felt. The easy move was to just come back, even if there were bits of that move she didn't like. Take the money, stay in the place that's become home, do the farewell tour. But something upset her enough that she couldn't do that. And she's aware of her level at this point in her career. She's intelligent enough to understand that the Lynx might've wanted the Toliver/Bonner/Diggins-Smith/McCoughtry situations to play out first.
Maybe Reeve took her for granted a little too much, and just assumed all those ties would keep her around. It's really a shame. There's something special about players who only ever play for one team in their career, even if we kinda forget and ignore that TSpoon played for LA, or Jordan for the Wizards, or Hakeem for Toronto etc. etc. I hope the Lynx throw a hell of a party for her when LA are in Minnesota this season. |
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 1093
Location: NorCal
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| Posted: 03/06/20 3:26 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| To me, this video confims the notion that the Lynx left her hanging while they were looking for better options. Leaving her hanging is what made her open the door to other teams. It didn’t matter if the Lynx came back with a better offer. Money don’t always make up for hurt feels. You could tell she was hurt because she was going into how long she was there, back before the dynasty, back when “nobody was in that gym”. |
Players need to recognize that the WNBA is a business and that require business decisions. This is not a friend's city league team where loyalty and emotional ties should play a role.
That seems to be the problem with some of the older ( should think of retirement ) players. They see their positions as an entitlement rather than based on production. It seems that many fans think the same way as well. Giving someone a break with respect to a scarce position denies someone else an opportunity that they deserve to have as well. This especially applies to the USA National team as well.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 03/06/20 4:36 pm ::: |
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Obviously we're only getting one side here, so any viewpoint is at least somewhat biased, but she doesn't come off as some entitled jock expecting things to be handed to her because of history. She specifically says that she wasn't expecting there to be much interest once she started opening things up to other teams, due to her age and how she's played the last year or two, and was surprised how much there was. From our perspective on the outside, maybe some of us might feel that the requisite amount of respect was being paid - or even overpaid - simply by the amount of cash the Lynx were offering. But I can understand Augustus feeling that she's earned a certain level of respect from the franchise.
Again, everything seems to indicate that she wanted to stay, and was fully expecting to stay. Given that, and the ackowledged fact that the Lynx were offering the most cash, you have to wonder exactly what the hell caused her to decide to leave. |
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 03/06/20 4:55 pm ::: |
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| Can only imagine it being something terrible. I mean imagine working for a place you love for 14 years and thinking you'll retire in a year only to be told something terrible about you which forces you to work elsewhere for another year. And for less money.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 03/06/20 5:20 pm ::: |
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| The video has now been listed as private so probably stuff going on behind the scenes.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 03/06/20 5:53 pm ::: |
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Another aging guard to add to the team. And they basically switch picks in the 2nd round(14th-16th).
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 03/06/20 5:56 pm ::: |
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I'll guess and say Banham's being worked on as the back-up PG.
PG: Brown/Banham
SG: Zandalasini/Christmas-Kelly/Johnson
SF: Collier/Talbot
PF: Dantas/Shepard
C: Fowles/Fagbenle/Alexander or #6 pick
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 03/07/20 6:57 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
Another aging guard to add to the team. And they basically switch picks in the 2nd round(14th-16th). |
29 years old is "aging"?  |
Ah, but how old is she in Knee Years? |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 03/07/20 12:01 pm ::: |
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I've felt for a long time that players are generally pretty stable at the top of their game between about 28-32. For some of them until 34-35. Most don't even get to their best until they've been a pro for several years. Part of that is that while the body may peak at 28, the bodily decline is made up for by 'smarts' and experience. Of course it does depend on injury and individual genetics and ability to use what smarts and experience they've gained.
I could maybe see calling a 32 year old 'aging' but 29, just no. I mean you could say a 5 year old is aging, because none of us are getting younger.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/07/20 12:14 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
I could maybe see calling a 32 year old 'aging' but 29, just no. I mean you could say a 5 year old is aging, because none of us are getting younger. |
Johnson is replacing a guard that will be 36 next month, so not exactly the same category. Unless she’s great this year, she could very well be a one year rental. It’s not like a Reeve overpaid for her (for once) and a rental would be out of the question.
If toad describes players from the draft Class of 2012 as “aging”, I expect him to describe 31 year old Tina Charles as “past the expiration date” from now on.
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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Randy
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Shades
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 03/07/20 6:11 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
I've felt for a long time that players are generally pretty stable at the top of their game between about 28-32. For some of them until 34-35. Most don't even get to their best until they've been a pro for several years. Part of that is that while the body may peak at 28, the bodily decline is made up for by 'smarts' and experience. Of course it does depend on injury and individual genetics and ability to use what smarts and experience they've gained.
I could maybe see calling a 32 year old 'aging' but 29, just no. I mean you could say a 5 year old is aging, because none of us are getting younger. |
The 28-32 prime was a paradigm for a long time until Bill James did a massive study of every major league baseball player since records were kept -- close to a hundred years.
By any metric, performance peaked at 27, and declined steadily thereafter. Of course there were and are exceptions, but the data speak really loudly on this.
Studies in other fast-twitch sports either confirmed the 27 number or even had it a little lower.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/07/20 6:18 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
I've felt for a long time that players are generally pretty stable at the top of their game between about 28-32. For some of them until 34-35. Most don't even get to their best until they've been a pro for several years. Part of that is that while the body may peak at 28, the bodily decline is made up for by 'smarts' and experience. Of course it does depend on injury and individual genetics and ability to use what smarts and experience they've gained.
I could maybe see calling a 32 year old 'aging' but 29, just no. I mean you could say a 5 year old is aging, because none of us are getting younger. |
The 28-32 prime was a paradigm for a long time until Bill James did a massive study of every major league baseball player since records were kept -- close to a hundred years.
By any metric, performance peaked at 27, and declined steadily thereafter. Of course there were and are exceptions, but the data speak really loudly on this.
Studies in other fast-twitch sports either confirmed the 27 number or even had it a little lower. |
It's important to note that this is a general pattern. Individual players can vary greatly. Nikki Teasley was washed up at 28. Sheryl Swoopes won the first of her three MVPs at 29.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 03/07/20 7:30 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
The 28-32 prime was a paradigm for a long time until Bill James did a massive study of every major league baseball player since records were kept -- close to a hundred years.
By any metric, performance peaked at 27, and declined steadily thereafter. Of course there were and are exceptions, but the data speak really loudly on this.
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do you think the metric are the same for men and women? I'm wondering because a) it seems like women in general aren't as hard on their bodies as guys are and b) women often start 'serious' sports later than men and c) of course there also physiological differences that could be in play.
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For there is always light,
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 03/07/20 11:56 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
The 28-32 prime was a paradigm for a long time until Bill James did a massive study of every major league baseball player since records were kept -- close to a hundred years.
By any metric, performance peaked at 27, and declined steadily thereafter. Of course there were and are exceptions, but the data speak really loudly on this.
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do you think the metric are the same for men and women? I'm wondering because a) it seems like women in general aren't as hard on their bodies as guys are and b) women often start 'serious' sports later than men and c) of course there also physiological differences that could be in play. |
If anything, it would seem to me it would work the other way, as women mature physically more quickly than men. Men are still growing, for the most part at 18; many girls are done growing at 15 or 16.
But when pilight does his average age for the WNBA, it comes out 27 every year, which seems to point to the same area.
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