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mmaniac
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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 Posted: 02/20/20 4:40 pm ::: |
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| she's a good 'un. Dallas or Indy?
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 02/20/20 9:54 pm ::: |
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| I have asked this before, but never really got any opinions. Based on our CBA understanding, this was the earliest draft that Sabally was available for due to being born in the United States, even if she had never decided to come back for college? |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 02/20/20 10:06 pm ::: |
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The rules are as follows...
ARTICLE XIII PLAYER ELIGIBILITY AND WNBA DRAFT
Section 1. Player Eligibility.
(a) Only players who are women are eligible to play in the WNBA.
(b) A player is eligible to be selected in the WNBA Draft if she: (i) will be at least twenty-two (22) years old during the calendar year in which such Draft is held and she either has no remaining intercollegiate eligibility or renounces her remaining intercollegiate eligibility by written notice to the WNBA at least ten (10) days prior to such Draft; (ii) has graduated from a four-year college or university prior to such Draft, or “is to graduate” from such college or university within the three (3)-month period following such Draft and she either has no remaining intercollegiate eligibility or renounces her remaining intercollegiate eligibility by written notice to the WNBA at least ten (10) days prior to such Draft or (iii) attended a fouryear college or university, her original class in such college or university has already been graduated or “is to graduate” within the three (3)-month period following such Draft, and she either has no remaining intercollegiate eligibility or renounces her remaining intercollegiate eligibility by written notice to the WNBA at least ten (10) days prior to such Draft. For purposes of subsection (b)(ii) above, “is to graduate” shall mean that such player would graduate from the college or university she is currently enrolled in if she were to successfully complete the coursework she is enrolled in at the time of such Draft and such course load is commensurate with the previous course loads she has successfully completed. For purposes of subsection (b)(iii) above, “is to graduate” shall mean that the majority of the students in such class would graduate from such college or university upon successful completion of the coursework the members of such class are enrolled in at the time of such Draft.
(c) A player who: (i) is competing in a NCAA season (including any NCAA Tournament) during the period that begins ten (10) days prior to a Draft; (ii) has remaining intercollegiate eligibility beyond the season in which she is currently competing; and (iii) is otherwise eligible for selection in such Draft, may make herself eligible for such Draft by renouncing her remaining intercollegiate eligibility within the period beginning at the conclusion of her final NCAA game in the season in which she is currently competing and ending twentyfour hours thereafter (but in no event later than three (3) hours prior to the Draft).
(d) Notwithstanding Section 1(b) above, an international player is eligible to be selected in the WNBA Draft if she will be at least 20 years old during the calendar year in which such Draft is held.
(e) For purposes of this Section 1, an “international player” means any person born and residing outside the United States who participates in the game of basketball as an amateur or a professional. An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above.
(f) No player may sign a Contract or play in the WNBA unless she has been eligible for selection in at least one (1) WNBA Draft.
(g) No player shall be eligible for selection in more than two (2) WNBA Drafts.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 02/20/20 11:09 pm ::: |
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| awhom111 wrote: |
| I have asked this before, but never really got any opinions. Based on our CBA understanding, this was the earliest draft that Sabally was available for due to being born in the United States, even if she had never decided to come back for college? |
My understanding is that Satou Sabally was born in Germany in April 1998.
If that's true and she never attended college in the U.S., and if she never resided in the U.S., she could have entered the WNBA draft as an "international player" at age 20, which would have been the 2018 draft.
However, since Sabally attended a U.S. college, she was not eligible for the international player draft at age 20. Therefore, she is apparently entering the 2020 draft under the general provision that allows anyone to enter at age 22, which she will be in calendar year 2020. It's also possible that she's eligible for the 2020 draft if she will graduate at the end of the spring 2020 semester.
The only way Sabally could have entered in 2019 at age 21 is if she somehow could have graduated from Oregon by the end of the spring semester of 2019, the end of her sophomore year, which would have been virtually impossible creditwise.
That's how I read the CBA.
On edit: Elsewhere, I read that Sabally was actually born in New York. Nothing in my analysis would change except that she never would have been eligible for the 20-year old international player draft because she does not meet the definition of "international player". 2020 is still the earliest she could have entered the draft either as a 22 year old or as a spring semester 2020 graduate. |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24348
Location: London
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| Posted: 02/21/20 2:39 am ::: |
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| I've mentioned before as well how unfair the rules are to Americans, but until someone cares enough to actively challenge them, it doesn't look like they're going to change. Having to be 'born and residing outside the United States' to count as an international player - even if you just happen to have been born in the US but have spent your entire life from two days old in a different country and don't consider yourself American - is a little silly. Fair enough if you want to say that once someone enters the NCAA system, they have to wait four years (or hit age X). But if an American wanted to ignore the NCAA system, why shouldn't they be eligible to be drafted in the year they turn 20 just like your average Macedonian? |
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 02/21/20 12:25 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| I've mentioned before as well how unfair the rules are to Americans, but until someone cares enough to actively challenge them, it doesn't look like they're going to change. . . . But if an American wanted to ignore the NCAA system, why shouldn't they be eligible to be drafted in the year they turn 20 just like your average Macedonian? |
You raise very interesting issues about the potential illegality of the CBA eligibility rules.
The first issue is the one you mention -- that if you have an American player and a foreign player both of whom don't attend college, the American player has to wait until she is 22 to enter the WNBA while the foreign player can enter at 20. This could be challenged under the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution, and would be, as far as I know, the first lawsuit of its kind.
The second issue is that the WNBA eligibility rules, by eliminating players under a certain age or without college degrees, violate the U.S. antitrust laws -- in particular, Section 1 of the Sherman Act, which outlaws contracts in restraint of trade.
The problem is that a similar antitrust issue was litigated under the NFL CBA in 2004 (Clarett v. NFL) and the player lost in the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals, which covers the states of Vermont, Connecticut and New York, where the WNBA headquarters is located. An antitrust lawsuit suit against the WNBA in the 2nd Circuit would have to convince that court to overrule or distinguish the Clarett case or succeed on further appeal in getting the Supreme Court to do so. Or, a lawsuit may be able to be brought in one of the other 12 federal circuits where Clarett would not be binding precedent.
The rationale in the Clarett case was that a collectively bargained player union agreement can be exempt from antitrust scrutiny. The decision was authored by Sonia Sotomayor, an uber-liberal judge now on the Supreme Court. I could say more about this case in Area 51, but I'll just say here that the decision is consistent with liberal judicial-political favoritism for collectivist union power over individual rights and freedom of contract. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 02/21/20 12:41 pm ::: |
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Hey Glenn,
Is there any reason Satou can't just walk into an INS office and ask for a certificate of citizenship (bringing her birth certificate and whatever ID is needed)? Or just apply for US Passport? Seems to me she would have birthright citizenship. As I understand it she is a German citizen, but dual citizenship is allowed as far as I know. BTW - not suggesting she would or should, just curious.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 02/21/20 1:09 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
Hey Glenn,
Is there any reason Satou can't just walk into an INS office and ask for a certificate of citizenship (bringing her birth certificate and whatever ID is needed)? Or just apply for US Passport? Seems to me she would have birthright citizenship. As I understand it she is a German citizen, but dual citizenship is allowed as far as I know. BTW - not suggesting she would or should, just curious. |
Randy, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. If Sabally was born in the US, she has always been a US citizen. Her birth certificate would prove it. She may also be a German citizen.
But none of that affects her current WNBA eligibility. She is eligible for the 2020 draft because she'll be 22 in 2020. She is not an "international player" because of her US birth, so she never could have been eligible to enter as a 20 year old international player. Nor is there any other way she could have entered earlier than 2020. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 02/21/20 1:12 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
Hey Glenn,
Is there any reason Satou can't just walk into an INS office and ask for a certificate of citizenship (bringing her birth certificate and whatever ID is needed)? Or just apply for US Passport? Seems to me she would have birthright citizenship. As I understand it she is a German citizen, but dual citizenship is allowed as far as I know. BTW - not suggesting she would or should, just curious. |
Randy, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. If Sabally was born in the US, she has always been a US citizen. Her birth certificate would prove it. She may also be a German citizen.
But none of that affects her current WNBA eligibility. She is eligible for the 2020 draft because she'll be 22 in 2020. She is not an "international player" because of her US birth, so she never could have been eligible to enter as a 20 year old international player. Nor is there any other way she could have entered earlier than 2020. |
Thanks. There was another topic where it was suggested it would be nice if she could join Team USA which opened up the question of citizenship. She has played for Germany so it is moot. Nonetheless I found the question interesting.
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