RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Phoenix Mercury 2020
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 18660



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 7:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, I like this. I am unabashedly a Hartley fan now. Would like Charles too. And also would Taurasi’s back to last through the season.



_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 20051



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 7:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.



_________________
Is there gas in the car?
Yes there's gas in the car.
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 18660



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.


That’s fair.
Laughing

Honestly not sure why Phoenix payed that much, but I will say a Hartley/SDS/Taurasi backcourt is kind of a dream combo for me, just in terms of players I like.



_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie


Last edited by mercfan3 on 02/14/20 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 21163



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 8:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.


We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 20051



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.

We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season.

We can predict it, but we can only give someone that title once their on-court (lack of) production justifies it.

eg. If we're basing things on last season's numbers then Hartley is still better value than Taurasi.



_________________
Is there gas in the car?
Yes there's gas in the car.
Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 1387



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
bballnut901 wrote:
Question....is DT being stuck with 119k yet Hartley is making 185? How on earth does that happen?

Yes, and because Taurasi signed under the old CBA.

Of course, Taurasi's wife is also employed by the organisation, and her salary doesn't fall under the salary cap...






_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
ChiSky54



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was feeling bad about Hartley getting bashed regularly by the Liberty fans. So they can't do it anymore--at least not as a current team member. But it is indeed insane that she got that max deal! Bet a bunch of players want to know who her agent is! Laughing



_________________
There is nothing new under the sun.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 60501
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/14/20 11:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChiSky54 wrote:
Bet a bunch of players want to know who her agent is! Laughing


Last I heard Boris Lelchitski was her agent



_________________
So where are the strong
And who are the trusted?
And where is the harmony?
Sweet harmony
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 22006
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 12:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also just a reminder, Hartley's French these days. So even if she's healthy, Phoenix may not get 34 games out of her in any of those three seasons.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 787
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 1:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Also just a reminder, Hartley's French these days. So even if she's healthy, Phoenix may not get 34 games out of her in any of those three seasons.


That's a fun reminder for Merc fans. Laughing Another fun reminder is that she already has one kid, so maybe she has another one sometime in these next three years that would also keep her from playing some part of a season! Same with Diggins-Smith Surprised


bballjunkie



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 728



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 11:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hartley will give it her all. Don’t understand why anyone would have any problem with a player getting her bag. After all, it’s not like they are handing out NBA contracts.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 22006
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 11:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballjunkie wrote:
Hartley will give it her all. Don’t understand why anyone would have any problem with a player getting her bag. After all, it’s not like they are handing out NBA contracts.

I don't think anyone's begrudging Hartley taking all the money she can get. If someone's going to offer it to you, go ahead and sign it as quickly as possible. But we've just stepped into an era where you can't just pay every vet the max and carry on making any move you want to make. Overpaying X is now much more likely to mean you might have trouble being able to pay/keep/acquire Y or Z. So whether you're paying someone what they're actually worth on the WNBA scale becomes a perfectly reasonable and worthwhile debate.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
bballjunkie



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 728



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

But that’s not Hartleys fault, in fact nothing to do with her. Problem I have is the shots taken at players by who, people hiding behind a keyboard with agendas.


Davis4632



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 640



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballjunkie wrote:
But that’s not Hartleys fault, in fact nothing to do with her. Problem I have is the shots taken at players by who, people hiding behind a keyboard with agendas.


Aren't you a UConn fan? Don't take it personal about Hartley. The WNBA has moved into an era in which player's salary will be called into question in relative to the on court performance. Just like most other professional sports.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3235
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
bballjunkie wrote:
Hartley will give it her all. Don’t understand why anyone would have any problem with a player getting her bag. After all, it’s not like they are handing out NBA contracts.

I don't think anyone's begrudging Hartley taking all the money she can get. If someone's going to offer it to you, go ahead and sign it as quickly as possible. But we've just stepped into an era where you can't just pay every vet the max and carry on making any move you want to make. Overpaying X is now much more likely to mean you might have trouble being able to pay/keep/acquire Y or Z. So whether you're paying someone what they're actually worth on the WNBA scale becomes a perfectly reasonable and worthwhile debate.


Of course this is right. I'm a Liberty fan. I've never "bashed" Bria Hartley. I think she's an OK player. Nothing more, nothing less. At times, she's terrific on the court; at times, she's far from terrific. I don't believe she should be a starting guard in the WNBA. I think she's a reasonable sub and offers the advantage that she can play both guard positions.

I'm happy for her that she got a three-year max contract. No one reasonable would "begrudge" Hartley getting that deal. But I think it's a ridiculous deal in a league where there are payroll limitations. If Hartley's agent proposed that to the Liberty I'm glad they didn't go along.



_________________
"Go out and fight so life shouldn't be printed on dollar bills."--Clifford Odets, Awake and Sing (1935)
myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 26485



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.


I don't have anything against her in a personal way, but I don't particularly like her as a player. She's totally inconsistent. And to me it always looked like she would get into pout mode when her play wasn't great. Good for her agent to get her that good of a deal, but it looks ridiculous to me from the Mercury point of view. It makes them look kind of desperate really. I think she's a decent backup that you can use when she's 'on' and bench when she's not, but that's not the salary they chose to pay her.

well, we will see. maybe more money makes her play better.



_________________
“Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.”
― Maya Angelou
Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 2933



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Shades wrote:
myrtle wrote:
they definitely overpaid for Hartley. And she probably won't even be a starter for them unless they have injuries.


The amount they paid her shows they plan on using her as a starter.


The amount we paid her shows we plan on her suddenly transforming into an all-star

Evil or Very Mad


Laughing Laughing

Stranger things have happened.

I think Bri Turner may be a pleasant surprise


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 787
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 4:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Hartley starts & gets to be their fifth option, she could have herself a good year (assuming she can make open shots).

Of course, the kind of year Phoenix has will once again depend on how healthy DT3 is. Without her - especially if she isn’t healthy to begin the regular season - it’s very hard to say. Bonner + Mitchell > Diggins-Smith + Hartley + whoever else they bring in (unless that someone is somehow Tina Charles)...


Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 1387



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballjunkie wrote:
But that’s not Hartleys fault, in fact nothing to do with her. Problem I have is the shots taken at players by who, people hiding behind a keyboard with agendas.

  • Firstly, everybody has agendas, one hundred percent of everybody. Even people who don't consider their agendas to be agendas, because of their personal blind spots.
  • Secondly, if you think that calling someone overpaid is "taking shots," you're taking all this shit too seriously. I mean, I will stipulate that I stay out of the Liberty thread, because the Liberty have never been relevant to my interest, at any point in time, but I haven't seen anyone in here "bashing" Hartley, as @ChiSky54 implied, certainly not anything that would meet the threshold for what I would consider "bashing," any way.
  • It's just humorous that the new CBA played out in such a way that career roleplayers are suddenly able to start getting paid more than perennial All-Stars/former MVPs. But that happens in sports, all the time, and nobody (or almost nobody) is saying that it's something that should be held against Hartley. That still doesn't mean that it's something that we can't see the humor in.
  • And besides, I'd take being called overpaid as a compliment: to paraphrase another great American philosopher, I'd rather overpaid than underrated.



_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 21163



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 5:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If they get Charles, which forces January out via trade. January, one of B Turner or Smith and the #10 pick to New York? Maybe the Liberty throw in Boy as well?

PG: Diggins/Boyd
SG: Hartley/YTurner/Cunningham
SF: Taurasi/
PF: Charles/ASmith*
C: Griner/BTurner*
*one is included in the Charles trade.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 873
Location: NorCal


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 7:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.

We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season.

We can predict it, but we can only give someone that title once their on-court (lack of) production justifies it.

eg. If we're basing things on last season's numbers then Hartley is still better value than Taurasi.

I would agree about being a better value than Taurasi if DT were getting the same money, but unless DT signed a new contract she is not. ?From what DT did last season and what I saw during her few games with the USA team, she appears done as a top-level player. What remains of her career probably will be impacted by a long series of recurring injuries. Still, unlike Hartley, the Mercs did not sign DT to a new free-agent contract, rather she is still playing on her old one. One the team would have to honor regardless of her production. Since all vets pretty much got the same money, DT's contract did not affect the team's cap as much as Hartleys' new max contract will.

What makes Hartleys contract questionable is that under the new agreement teams will be able to only sign a few max contracts so signing Hartley to max seems rather foolish. In respect to predicting a player's value via their contract, players generally do not get paid for what they might produce, but for what they have shown they can produce in the past. The main reason it probably was a foolish contract was that it is very unlikely that another team would have been in competition for her at that price. A major factor in salaries depends on what other teams would offer.

Fans of other teams should applaud this signing. It means that the Mercs have already used up one of only a few available max contracts, which would keep them from using it on a different player to strengthen their team.



_________________
No one one is ever as good as their best game, nor as bad as their worst.
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 3235
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
Fans of other teams should applaud this signing. It means that the Mercs have already used up one of only a few available max contracts, which would keep them from using it on a different player to strengthen their team.


Yes, this is exactly the point. Especially for THREE seasons.



_________________
"Go out and fight so life shouldn't be printed on dollar bills."--Clifford Odets, Awake and Sing (1935)
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 20051



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/15/20 8:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Shades wrote:
myrtle wrote:
they definitely overpaid for Hartley. And she probably won't even be a starter for them unless they have injuries.


The amount they paid her shows they plan on using her as a starter.


The amount we paid her shows we plan on her suddenly transforming into an all-star

Evil or Very Mad


Laughing Laughing

Stranger things have happened.

I think Bri Turner may be a pleasant surprise

I think so too. I like what I've seen from her game and her overall attitude down here this season.
Which is why I *really* hope this recent Mercury panic mode doesn't involve trading her away. I suspect it does though, since there's not much else of value we have to give at this point.



_________________
Is there gas in the car?
Yes there's gas in the car.
ChiSky54



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 38
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/16/20 8:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To clarify: my use of the word "bashing" when referencing how it seemed NY fans were talking about Hartley was not the best choice of words. It overstated the fact that (and my memory is frankly fuzzy) it seemed people who were less than thrilled with her performance on many occasions rather vehemently wanted her taken out of games and couldn't figure out why other players weren't put in sooner. I felt bad for the girl and often said in my head, "Dang, people, leave her alone--she's not that bad!" I am not maternal by any means, but I wanted to give her a hug or some kind of encouragement, and she wasn't on my team!

If Phoenix agreed to pay her that money, more power to her! I hope the change of venue works in her favor. In light of other "fun reminders" that have been mentioned, I have my concerns as to if this will work out in Phoenix's favor.



_________________
There is nothing new under the sun.
canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 386



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/16/20 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
For the record I like Hartley as a player. I just don't 3-years-at-$185kplus-like her.

We can all label her the most overpaid player in the league this season.

We can predict it, but we can only give someone that title once their on-court (lack of) production justifies it.

eg. If we're basing things on last season's numbers then Hartley is still better value than Taurasi.

I would agree about being a better value than Taurasi if DT were getting the same money, but unless DT signed a new contract she is not. ?From what DT did last season and what I saw during her few games with the USA team, she appears done as a top-level player. What remains of her career probably will be impacted by a long series of recurring injuries. Still, unlike Hartley, the Mercs did not sign DT to a new free-agent contract, rather she is still playing on her old one. One the team would have to honor regardless of her production. Since all vets pretty much got the same money, DT's contract did not affect the team's cap as much as Hartleys' new max contract will.

What makes Hartleys contract questionable is that under the new agreement teams will be able to only sign a few max contracts so signing Hartley to max seems rather foolish. In respect to predicting a player's value via their contract, players generally do not get paid for what they might produce, but for what they have shown they can produce in the past. The main reason it probably was a foolish contract was that it is very unlikely that another team would have been in competition for her at that price. A major factor in salaries depends on what other teams would offer.

Fans of other teams should applaud this signing. It means that the Mercs have already used up one of only a few available max contracts, which would keep them from using it on a different player to strengthen their team.


Amen...When you are committing $215k (and up over 3 years) for both Griner and Diggins, Phx has no business spending $185k+ for Hartley over same time frame. Hartley replaces DT in any future "Big 3" discussion, unless DT plays on, in which case the Hartley salary is an even greater abomination b/c Diana is sure to command top $.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 7 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin