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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
Quote:
Is the Tina Charles era in New York coming to an end?

https://highposthoops.com/2020/02/14/tina-charles-era-new-york-wnba/


Quote:
Another route New York could take with Dallas, without or with Charles on the move, would be to trade for Ndour, who basically is a little bit more experienced than Cox, Sabally or Hebard. With a 6’5 frame, Ndour shot over 40 percent from three in 2019. She fits the Hopkins mold to a tee.


Does zune work for High Post Hoops now, because this is an idea he would come up with. Dallas traded for Ndour because they want her on the team. They didn’t trade for her just to trade her again. Now if Dallas got an offer they couldn’t refuse, that would be a different story. But that’s not what they’re talking about here.

Quote:
How would they do it? Trade Brittany Boyd (the Wings need a point guard who can distribute rather than score with Arike Ogunbowale at the two) and Kiah Stokes, who could thrive as a veteran in a Brian Agler-style defense.


Leave it to High Post Hoops to not even realize that Jefferson is now on the team, and she recently signed a three year deal with Dallas for very good money.



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
Quote:
Is the Tina Charles era in New York coming to an end?

https://highposthoops.com/2020/02/14/tina-charles-era-new-york-wnba/


Wow I’m surprised she didn’t have a more exciting reply to the move to Brooklyn question.
The quotes chosen to share in this article definitely make it seem like both sides understand she’s on the way out.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 02/14/20 11:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I know I've said teams should never have to have throw-in pieces when already trading their superstars (referring to the infamous Sylvia Fowles trade where the Sky threw in a second-rounder, only to only get back freakin' De Souza Laughing ), but in this case, the Liberty might actually get more back if they throw in someone like Boyd. I'd say she still has value as a back-up PG, and it seems like plenty of Liberty fans wouldn't be sad to see her go. It's hard to juggle roster spot allocations as it is whenever these 3-for-1 or 4-for-1 trades happen, and if including Boyd in a Charles trade means the Liberty get more assets of substance in their return package, they absolutely should. If they're trading Charles though, I don't think they should include Stokes along with her unless they get picks that lead to & players that are post players; plus Stokes just signed an extension after last season anyway under this same ownership group, so that probably means they want to keep her and see what she can do for the team. Much, of course, remains to be seen.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
I know I've said teams should never have to have throw-in pieces when already trading their superstars (referring to the infamous Sylvia Fowles trade where the Sky threw in a second-rounder, only to only get back freakin' De Souza Laughing ), but in this case, the Liberty might actually get more back if they throw in someone like Boyd. I'd say she still has value as a back-up PG, and it seems like plenty of Liberty fans wouldn't be sad to see her go. It's hard to juggle roster spot allocations as it is whenever these 3-for-1 or 4-for-1 trades happen, and if including Boyd in a Charles trade means the Liberty get more assets of substance in their return package, they absolutely should. If they're trading Charles though, I don't think they should include Stokes along with her unless they get picks that lead to & players that are post players; plus Stokes just signed an extension after last season anyway under this same ownership group, so that probably means they want to keep her and see what she can do for the team. Much, of course, remains to be seen.


Even apart from whatever happens with Tina Charles, I believe the Liberty should now try to trade Brittany Boyd. Not because I'm so negative about her as a player. But Boyd was a starter at times for New York (including 17 games last season) and certainly there was hope that she'd prove good enough to be our starting point guard for years. Now she's the #5 guard behind Ionescu, Durr, Johannes, and Clarendon. That doesn't seem like a good situation.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
Wow I’m surprised she didn’t have a more exciting reply to the move to Brooklyn question.


As I understand the NY dynamic, people from Queens are never excited about going to Brooklyn



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 12:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote:
Wow I’m surprised she didn’t have a more exciting reply to the move to Brooklyn question.


As I understand the NY dynamic, people from Queens are never excited about going to Brooklyn


but a lot more excited about Brooklyn than Westchester...



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Could someone explain why Phoenix signed Bria Hartley to a three-year max contract? I don't mean to trash Bria and I definitely wish her well. But, in my view, she isn't good enough to be a starting guard in the WNBA. She's a decent backup, can play either guard position, at times is terrific, at times isn't very good. I'm baffled.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Could someone explain why Phoenix signed Bria Hartley to a three-year max contract? I don't mean to trash Bria and I definitely wish her well. But, in my view, she isn't good enough to be a starting guard in the WNBA. She's a decent backup, can play either guard position, at times is terrific, at times isn't very good. I'm baffled.


Laughing New York’s “loss” is actually their gain!

Her agent must be an absolute mastermind.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Could someone explain why Phoenix signed Bria Hartley to a three-year max contract? I don't mean to trash Bria and I definitely wish her well. But, in my view, she isn't good enough to be a starting guard in the WNBA. She's a decent backup, can play either guard position, at times is terrific, at times isn't very good. I'm baffled.


Laughing New York’s “loss” is actually their gain!

Her agent must be an absolute mastermind.


I agree with your tribute to Hartley's agent. Smile I just can't grasp why Phoenix would do what they did. Sign Hartley? Fine. Sign her to a max contract? For three years? I wouldn't have done either of those, much less both.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What if Minny offered her damn near the max and PHX had no choice? Is that possible I’m not good with reading into cap space stuff.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
What if Minny offered her damn near the max and PHX had no choice? Is that possible I’m not good with reading into cap space stuff.


Then I'd ask the same questions. Why would any team offer Bria Hartley a three-year max salary? Or "damn near" that?



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bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Supply and demand. Still intrigued where Tina will be.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
What if Minny offered her damn near the max and PHX had no choice? Is that possible I’m not good with reading into cap space stuff.


Then I'd ask the same questions. Why would any team offer Bria Hartley a three-year max salary? Or "damn near" that?


I could see Reeve being desperate to sign a guard at throwing a spacejunkie amount at any underwhelming player willing to fill the void. Laughing



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballjunkie wrote:
Supply and demand. Still intrigued where Tina will be.


Agreed. Phoenix seems out. They'd have to trade January to make space, but NY doesn't need three PGs(January, Ionescu, Clarendon). I keep thinking about Minnesota. Maybe the #6 pick, Dantas & their 2021 first-rounder for Charles & Boyd?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Maybe the #6 pick, Dantas & their 2021 first-rounder for Charles & Boyd?


I like Dantas better than Charles, so that’s a big no deal from me.

Trade her to Dallas. Get picks.



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Last edited by Shades on 02/14/20 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 6:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
bballjunkie wrote:
Supply and demand. Still intrigued where Tina will be.


Agreed. Phoenix seems out. They'd have to trade January to make space, but NY doesn't need three PGs(January, Ionescu, Clarendon). I keep thinking about Minnesota. Maybe the #6 pick, Dantas & their 2021 first-rounder for Charles & Boyd?


3 team trade could work.
But if Minnesota is interested I was thinking the same trade as you, except my thought was Shepard instead of Dantas....but salary wise yours might make more sense.

Imagine 2021 Lynx:
Sims/Maya/Collier/Charles/Fowles


SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Maybe the #6 pick, Dantas & their 2021 first-rounder for Charles & Boyd?


I like Dantas better than Charles, do that’s a big no deal from me.

Trade her to Dallas. Get picks.


Same here. Unless New York gives the Lynx the #1 pick to take Charles off of their hands, I'm not interested in her.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 8:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LOL. Hilarious idea. Perhaps New York should give the Lynx the #1 pick, the entire roster, plus ownership of the Barclay Center to get rid of Charles?



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bluedevilaztecfan5



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m totally fine keeping Tina. Did she have a down year last season? Yes. But I was thinking with such a dynamic playmaker in Ionescu joining that her percentages would go back up, and her usage rate down.
The only reason I’ve been throwing around trade ideas is because of the rumors.

But seriously, good luck next season to any power forward trying to guard her consistently, one on one.
I think she is worth at least as much as what Dallas got for Skylar.


toad455



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 9:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

it just sounds like Tsai/Kolb/Hopkins wants Tina out. I'm guessing she knows this. A shame as she probably dreamed of playing in Brooklyn. I hope I'm wrong, but time will tell if Tina is in a Liberty uniform this season.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
it just sounds like Tsai/Kolb/Hopkins wants Tina out. I'm guessing she knows this. A shame as she probably dreamed of playing in Brooklyn. I hope I'm wrong, but time will tell if Tina is in a Liberty uniform this season.


I find it difficult to believe that Joe Tsai wants Tina Charles out. Why would he care? Sadly, it does sound like Kolb and Hopkins want Tina elsewhere? I hope I'm wrong.

Given all the player movement we've already seen this winter, given that people looking to propose trades haven't come up (in my view) with exciting options, the question may become: are Kolb and Hopkins willing to sell low? Will they trade Tina Charles for, an example, a less-than-wonderful player plus a less-than-wonderful draft pick? I'd find that really depressing.



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Could someone explain why Phoenix signed Bria Hartley to a three-year max contract? I don't mean to trash Bria and I definitely wish her well. But, in my view, she isn't good enough to be a starting guard in the WNBA. She's a decent backup, can play either guard position, at times is terrific, at times isn't very good. I'm baffled.


:lol: New York’s “loss” is actually their gain!

Her agent must be an absolute mastermind.


To paraphrase the great American philosopher, Bomani Jones, being a legend on the field would be nice, but I'd rather be a #LegendAtTheBank.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/14/20 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Her agent must be an absolute mastermind.


If she's still with SIG, they have an excellent reputation for that sort of thing



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PostPosted: 02/15/20 12:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Do we have any actual evidence that it's the team that would like to move Tina rather than Tina wanting to go? Again, they literally can't trade her without her agreeing to the deal. In fact, she could sign the core qualifying offer right now and be under contract to the Liberty for 2020 for $215,000 (and essentially block any trade by saying she won't bother to play anywhere else).

I don't have any information on this one, but I feel like people are somewhat jumping to conclusions.



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PostPosted: 02/15/20 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Do we have any actual evidence that it's the team that would like to move Tina rather than Tina wanting to go? Again, they literally can't trade her without her agreeing to the deal. In fact, she could sign the core qualifying offer right now and be under contract to the Liberty for 2020 for $215,000 (and essentially block any trade by saying she won't bother to play anywhere else).

I don't have any information on this one, but I feel like people are somewhat jumping to conclusions.


I don't believe anyone has presented any clear evidence that it's the Liberty that want to get rid of Tina rather than Tina wanting to head elsewhere. However, I find it very hard to imagine that with the team moving to Brooklyn, Ionescu coming, and other young talent hopefully improving Tina would want to walk away from her strong roots in New York.

I posted right after I watched the initial Hopkins press conference--and others noticed this as well--that I found it striking that at that very moment Hopkins would be publicly critical of Tina Charles. He didn't trash her, but why would a new coach make a public criticism of the team's only star at his welcoming press conference? It suggests to me that if Tina indeed wants out it's because she had initial conversations with Hopkins that went really badly and she felt she wasn't appreciated.

I have no evidence of anything. But I can't imagine Charles wanting to leave New York unless an unexpected reason developed.



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