RebKell's Junkie Boards

[Stormeo]

[toad455]

You do wonder if this is Tina asking for the trade or Kolb/Hopkins wanting to take the team in a different direction? Tina had her worst season last year, so if we get a young PF(Ndour? Stevens?) and another first-round pick, it should be a win for us.

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[J-Spoon]

Yes whether this is Charles idea or the teams is a good question.

I could see Charles wanting to go for a championship and not wanting to wait for NY to get there. But I could also see after the Westchester exile Charles wanting to come back in style in Brooklyn at Barclay's.

I could also see management realizing they aren't going to make it in Charles window and wanting to cash in on Charles and,

while some might not think this is important if management is all in on Ionescu as the new leader/face of the franchise maybe moving on from Charles is the best way to do that.

I remember the year that CHarles joined Pondecter in NY it didn't really work I always suspected the trade of Pondexter for Prince was about letting Charles no it was her team more than about getting Prince

but I could also see the team thinking that with Ionescu and Charles and a few tweaks they could compete sooner rather than later

so it is curious what is NY's motivation in this

[WNBA 09]

Tbh I’m not that thrilled about seeing Sabrinas Pick and roll game destroyed by Tinas Mantra to Pick and pop to shoot 3’s and fade-away jumpers.

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3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol

[J-Spoon]

so let's say it is B. Turner and #5

Ionescu/Clarendon/Boyd
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Zahui B/#5 (Mompremier, Hebard or Holmes)/Gray
Stokes/B. Turner

so let's say it isn't that, yikes. (It is totally going to be that).

well we could still upgrade with a free agent or two

keeping it young maybe Copper?

[Admiral_Needa]

[bluedevilaztecfan5]

[J-Spoon]

I will have to keep my eye on Allarie if we end up with 5 or 7 (I still think Holmes becomes something in the W in a couple of years but we'll see)

Basically if PX pulls it off here is what is probably available for both Charles and/or Diggins-Smith

picks 5, 7, 10
2021 PX's pick and/or Conn's pick (I could see either NY or Dallas being offered the better of those two picks as one of the assets)
and/or
players
B. Turner, S. Cunningham, A. Smith, Y. Turner, B. January

[bluedevilaztecfan5]

[Shades]

Spooner, I think PHX is going to want to keep most of their rookies from last year because they are cheap, and they have at least one year of familiarity with the team. Keeps them from having to get a bunch of unfamiliar cheap FA’s to fill in the roster.

The player you’re completely forgetting is January. She has two years guaranteed at old max left on her contract. Why they gave her so much, who knows? PHX is going to prefer to make her part of the trade deal, or else dump her salary with some other team. Who between DAL and NYL could use January? Not really a position of need for either team.

Maybe PHX can sucker Reeve into trading for her... possibly giving them back Talbot in return, who they probably never wanted to part with in the first place.

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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[J-Spoon]

[Shades]

C’mon, Spooner. You know established Australians don’t miss time for Olympics.


How about?
DAL gets:
January + #7 + CON first in 2021 for Diggins

NYL gets:
#5 + #10 (or Smith) + PHX first in 2021 for Charles

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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[J-Spoon]

[Luuuc]

[Stormeo]

Jonathan Kolb better be playing hardball. New York should have the most leverage in this scenario since Tina Charles ain't exactly demanding out as far as we know; and on the surface they have the least incentive to trade her, and thus should only trade her if the package is solid. Charles has shown great durability her entire career and thus should be perceived to have several more healthy years left in her, and Phoenix could be convinced by Kolb that last year was simply a down year given the ineptitude of the previous Liberty coaching staff. To trade Charles, they'll need to involve Dallas and its big bucket of assets to give up the goods. None of this "pile of rando first-round picks in return" crap; Phoenix was lucky to trade away Bonner for that package since she could've just signed with the Sun if she really wanted to. As previously suggested by J-Spoon, I'd require a healthy Azurá Stevens to go along with two more assets chosen from the following group: The 5th Pick, The 7th Pick, Kayla Thornton, Allisha Gray. I'd only accept two assets in the form of Stevens and The #2 Pick. If New York's only trading partner is Phoenix and Phoenix won't give up Griner, then they've already been played/played themselves. The Liberty's back in a big-league arena in the boroughs now - their first big splash ought not to be shitty like a superstar-for-broken-parts trade would be. Kolb better know better.

[Richyyy]

Whether it was her idea in the first place or not, Charles has to want to be making this move. She's a cored UFA, so they can't trade her without her agreeing to the contract and the move.

It's bizarre to me that she would stick around through all the Westchester crap and then leave her hometown team when they're finally heading back to Brooklyn and a proper arena. Maybe Liberty management came to her and said they'd like to retool and go young, and she said "fine, fuck it, I'll go if I'm not wanted", but still weird.

Also amazing that Phoenix could come into the offseason with only 5 players under contract and nothing much to trade, and somehow come out of it with Diggins-Smith and Charles.

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[J-Spoon]

I hope you are right Stormeo

I would love for Charles to finish out in NY

But I feel some sort of inevitability behind this move. I don't think PX let Bonner go, I think they had been working this deal, told Bonner they weren't going to give her the max, but would as a Thank you and to help themselves out get Bonner the extra 30K in the super max to let her move on with a team she sort of chose.

I also don't think NY is in as strong of a position nefotiating wise as it might seem. Charles would 1 have to want to go to agree to the deal in the first place and 2 because she was cored would have to agree to the team she was being sent to. Charles if not staying in NY would want to go to a contender so that eliminates so teams and if this deal was being worked on she might even being saying that PX is where she really wants to go.

Obviously NY could just keep her, I hope they do tbh, but if they are trading her both Charles and the team she is going to also have some leverage. As much as I love Charles she is on the down side of her career and being cored means she will get the super max for her next deal so PX can say this is the best we can do take it or leave it and NY can leave it and keep Charles probably for 2-3 more season at max in a slow decline, or hit the reset button with whatever they are offered a decent pick and a young player with upside is better than nothing if you are not on board with trying to make it happen in the next few seasons with Charles on the team or you want to save money for your upcoming max players or future free agents in a year or two when the new Liberty are close to competing.

IDK I hope I am wrong but I feel like with Ionexcu as the new face, a new coach and a very young core the Liberty might be resetting the time table and Charles might not be a part of that vision. If so I am all with doing better in the trade but won't be shocked when the return is underwhelming.

[Shades]

Am I the only one who remembers that Hopkins came in pointing out that Charles needed to change her game to a more efficient style? Maybe Charles isn’t receptive to change to her game. She’s been chucky Charles for a long time now. Maybe she was looking for glowing praise instead of critical analysis of her game right off the bat. Maybe.

Do you know who the Liberty could draft with that #5 pick? Ruthy Hebard. Talk about instant chemistry and increasing the comfort level of your #1 pick, your new franchise player. Then maybe you could also dump Boyd’s contract on ATL for Cazorla.

This all-new fresh approach for the Liberty might be the best way to go.

_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[Bob Lamm]

[bluedevilaztecfan5]

[J-Spoon]

So Dallas got 3 first round picks including the two decent ones in 2020 so I don't think they have enough left for Charles unless they can get a 3rd team involved.

So does NY continue shopping Charles? (I could see Chicago or Minny possible taking a shot if they want to enter the arms race). Or does PX pull off some sort of ccheaper 3 team deat?
Or does she stay in NY?

[Shades]

I’m not a huge fan of Charles’ game if you didn’t catch the chucky Charles adjective.

I love the wait and see game. Some teams are making moves that will require them to practically give away some decent players, kinda like what happened for the Lynx last year.

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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[Bob Lamm]

I'm hoping that Tina Charles stays in Brooklyn.

I was opposed to New York going after Angel, Bonner, or Diggins-Smith. I hadn't considered that Charles might be elsewhere. Rather than a total rebuild, I'd prefer to have one veteran star, Tina Charles, there along with all our team's young talent. Yes, Charles isn't the player she once... but with better teammates she doesn't have to be.

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[bluedevilaztecfan5]

I too hope Tina gets to stay in NY. I was ready to rock the season with her in the lineup.

I was excited to see the pick n roll with her and Ionescu, with Zahui B on the 3pt line (along with Durr and Nurse) to take away the other teams shot blocker and give Tina space to operate inside against her defender or Sabrina’s.

The HPH Megdal article said the Mercury were in advanced talks to acquire Diggins-Smith and Charles according to “multiple league sources”.
Hopefully Kolb sees what Dallas got, and will not settle for less value.

[toad455]

Where will Tina go?

https://twitter.com/TBRBWAY/status/1227736900015923200

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY