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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 01/29/20 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Zags hosting would be cool. Spokane is apeshit over basketball.



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ucbart



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PostPosted: 01/29/20 6:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
Regarding the Quse, and Barts comments about Qs knowledge of X and Os, I wonder how much not having Tammi and Adeniyi on staff is contributing to that.


Well-I don't think much. That's the way they've always been, but Tiana masked it for the past two seasons.


PRballer



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PostPosted: 01/29/20 7:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
Zags hosting would be cool. Spokane is apeshit over basketball.


If they win out in their conference and tournament, they will absolutely be hosting!

Would be cool if Iowa City and Tucson host, too. Those fan bases are really behind their teams (of course not mentioning Oregon, OSU, Miss State, SC, Louisville, etc...)


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 01/30/20 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

here's hoping UConn stays in Fort Wayne despite the upcoming losses to Ducks and Cocks!

don't feel like getting whipped in Baylor's, Oregon's, or South Carolina's backyard in front of a full house. Very Happy



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 01/30/20 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
here's hoping UConn stays in Fort Wayne despite the upcoming losses to Ducsk and Cocks!

don't feel like getting whipped in Baylor's, Oregon's, or South Carolina's backyard in front of a full house. Very Happy
''

I think after last year's complaints , if the chance presents itself to send UCONN anywhere outside the northeast it will be done.



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SpaceJunkie



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 01/30/20 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I think after last year's complaints , if the chance presents itself to send UCONN anywhere outside the northeast it will be done.


UConn is going to be sent anywhere outside the northeast this year because this is a rare year in which there is no region in the northeast. Razz


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 01/30/20 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I think after last year's complaints , if the chance presents itself to send UCONN anywhere outside the northeast it will be done.


UConn is going to be sent anywhere outside the northeast this year because this is a rare year in which there is no region in the northeast. Razz


Laughing That IS the case, indeed.

As mentioned, gimme FW please. (Although, if it were Greensville, I could probably go and be a drop of National Flag Blue in a sea of garnet and black.)



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Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 02/03/20 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Updated again today:
http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/bracketology

I don't see the BE getting 4 teams in as he has projected right now.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 02/17/20 6:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A question:

We hear almost every year that the committee is bound by their Policies and Procedures. Over the years those have been revised several times. Who has the final say on the Policies and Prodedures? What is the process in revising them? I'm sure that there are recommendations from individual schools and conferences but at some point there must be a body or an individual who has the final say.
Who is it or who are they?

As Boss Tweed once commented: "I don't care who wins the election as long as I can control who gets nominated".


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 02/17/20 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
A question:

We hear almost every year that the committee is bound by their Policies and Procedures. Over the years those have been revised several times. Who has the final say on the Policies and Prodedures? What is the process in revising them? I'm sure that there are recommendations from individual schools and conferences but at some point there must be a body or an individual who has the final say.
Who is it or who are they?

As Boss Tweed once commented: "I don't care who wins the election as long as I can control who gets nominated".


The Division 1 Women's Basketball Committee meets in June and discusses policies for the next season. That is generally when changes to the selection and bracket policies are determined


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Updated again today:

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/bracketology

#1 seeds are South Carolina, Baylor, Maryland and Oregon

Marquette moves down from a 9 to 11 seed despite winning 2 games, moving solidly into 2nd place in the Big East and I think their RPI improved a bit. But then again I'd prefer an 11 seed for MU to the 8/9 seed. And I still can't get over the fact that there's even a projection with MU in the field at this point in the season - I was hoping for a .500 overall record with all they graduated and certainly didn't expect their 4th straight 20 win season which they reached with Sunday's win over Butler.


Phil



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

> Who has the final say on the Policies and Prodedures? What is the process in revising them?

Does it really matter? Don't the list of considerations have enough loopholes that they can do whatever they want in claim they complied with their policies and procedures?

The claim they start with RPI, and then have some of the metrics which might move someone up or down. If that's really the case, one would expect that if the RPI indicated they should be, say, a 3 seed, they might end up a three, or maybe get moved up to a 2, or may be down to a 4, but it would be extremely unusual to have more movement than that.

Missouri State is currently #4 in RPI. No I didn't say a four seed, I said number four overall, so their starting position ought to be one of the top four seeds. Creme has them as a five seed which is a long way away. He doesn't say there's a procedural bump moving them from a one to a five, and I don't believe he's commented on it.

My conclusion is that the claim they start with RPI is a crock, or at best, it means the other considerations are so significant that the RPI ends up being meaningless.


Phil



Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 02/18/20 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marquette Fan wrote:
Updated again today:



Marquette moves down from a 9 to 11 seed despite winning 2 games, moving solidly into 2nd place in the Big East and I think their RPI improved a bit. But then again I'd prefer an 11 seed for MU to the 8/9 seed. And I still can't get over the fact that there's even a projection with MU in the field at this point in the season - I was hoping for a .500 overall record with all they graduated and certainly didn't expect their 4th straight 20 win season which they reached with Sunday's win over Butler.


I think Marquette deserves an 8 but I understand why that might be less desirable than 11


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phil wrote:
Marquette Fan wrote:
Updated again today:



Marquette moves down from a 9 to 11 seed despite winning 2 games, moving solidly into 2nd place in the Big East and I think their RPI improved a bit. But then again I'd prefer an 11 seed for MU to the 8/9 seed. And I still can't get over the fact that there's even a projection with MU in the field at this point in the season - I was hoping for a .500 overall record with all they graduated and certainly didn't expect their 4th straight 20 win season which they reached with Sunday's win over Butler.


I think Marquette deserves an 8 but I understand why that might be less desirable than 11


Marquette only has 3 regular season games left and I have a feeling they'll lose two of them - at Villanova and vs. DePaul. So they'd probably move down a bit with that. They absolutely have to win at Georgetown on Sunday as right now they don't have any good wins but at least they can say they don't have any bad losses either. And a loss to Georgetown would definitely be a bad loss. A loss to Villanova wouldn't be the greatest thing but a lot more respectable than losing to Georgetown.

I really shouldn't complain about any seed they get this season as it's so unexpected. I literally came into the season hoping they could finish with at least a .500 record so they could be WNIT eligible. And I think this is the first time they've ever had four straight 20 or more win seasons in program history.


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 10:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phil wrote:
My conclusion is that the claim they start with RPI is a crock, or at best, it means the other considerations are so significant that the RPI ends up being meaningless.


The committee uses RPI in a peculiar way. They use it as a measure of how good your wins or how bad your losses are, not as a measure of how good you are. In the weird reasoning of the committee, it's better to beat the #4 team than to be the #4 team. Oregon State and Gonzaga derive more benefit from Missouri State's absurd RPI than the Bears do themselves.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pilight is 100% correct about the RPI. This year will be interesting to see how the Committee uses the quadrant system. This is a seemingly small change, particularly since the quadrants are not adjusted for home court. But from a pure optics standpoint quadrant 1 now combines games against the top 25 with games against 26-50.

(A) There are currently 60 teams that have 2 wins or more over quadrant 1. (B)There are only 15 teams that have not lost to a team outside of quadrant 1. (C) 35 teams have more quadrant 1 wins than non-quadrant 1 losses and (D) another 8 that have the same number.

Those teams are:

South Carolina (11 Q1 wins, 0 nonQ1 losses)
Maryland (10-0)
Oregon (9-0)
Baylor (8-0)
UCLA (8-1)
Iowa (8-3)
Louisville (7-1)
Northwestern (7-0)
North Carolina St (6-2)
TCU (5-1)
Arizona (5-0)
Florida St (5-3)
LSU (5-4)
Oklahoma (5-5)
Oregon St (4-1)
Missouri St (4-1)
Connecticut (4-0)
Mississippi St (4-1)
Texas A&M (4-0)
Indiana (4-0)
DePaul (4-0)
Kentucky (4-1)
Purdue (4-1)
Michigan (4-2)
Texas (4-3)
Syracuse (4-5)
Gonzaga 3-1)
Central Michigan (3-3)
Ohio St (3-1)
Arizona St (3-1)
Duke (3-3)
South Dakota (3-0)
Iowa St (3-2)
West Virginia (3-3)
Virginia (3-5)
St John's (3-5)
Minnesota (3-4)
Nebraska (3-2)
Michigan St (3-3)
Butler (3-4)
Princeton (2-0)
Old Dominion (2-2)
Florida Gulf Coast (2-0)
Virginia Tech (2-2)
Drake (2-1)
Creighton (2-4)
Rutgers (2-3)
Penn (2-2)
Seton Hall (2-4)
Northern Iowa (2-3)
Georgia Tech (2-3)
USC (2-4)
Southern Illinois (2-6)
Georgia (2-5)
North Carolina (2-4)
Auburn (2-7)
Wake Forest (2-9)
Buffalo (2-7)
Texas Tech (2-3)
St Mary's (2-11)


With this analysis there are a few teams that stand out. Tennessee has only 1 quadrant 50 win but no losses against non top 50. Other teams with no such losses but 3 or fewer quadrant 1 wins are South Dakota (3), Princeton (2), Florida Gulf Coast (2) and Stony Brook (0).

Oklahoma has 5 quadrant 1 wins but they are currently under .500. If Oklahoma could win 4 of its last 5 (which would include wins against 2 more top 50 teams) they would have to be seriously considered.

There are several teams with only 1 quadrant 1 win but are still being considered for an at-large berth: Arkansas (1 Q1 win, 2 nonQ1 losses), Marquette (1-2), Oklahoma St (1-2), Bradley (1-2), James Madison (1-2), Western Kentucky (1-3), Middle Tennessee (1-3) and Ohio (1-3). Finally there are 2 teams in the RPI top 50 who do not have a Quadrant 1 win, Troy and Dayton.

(note: these numbers are from Warren Nolan. I noted that in one case a win over Virginia (RPI 51) was included as Q1, but I believe the information is generally accurate.


insidewinder



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 02/19/20 8:00 pm    ::: Hmmm Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
Pilight is 100% correct about the RPI. This year will be interesting to see how the Committee uses the quadrant system. This is a seemingly small change, particularly since the quadrants are not adjusted for home court. But from a pure optics standpoint quadrant 1 now combines games against the top 25 with games against 26-50.

(A) There are currently 60 teams that have 2 wins or more over quadrant 1. (B)There are only 15 teams that have not lost to a team outside of quadrant 1. (C) 35 teams have more quadrant 1 wins than non-quadrant 1 losses and (D) another 8 that have the same number.

Those teams are:

South Carolina (11 Q1 wins, 0 nonQ1 losses)
Maryland (10-0)
Oregon (9-0)
Baylor (8-0)
UCLA (8-1)
Iowa (8-3)
Louisville (7-1)
Northwestern (7-0)
North Carolina St (6-2)
TCU (5-1)
Arizona (5-0)
Florida St (5-3)
LSU (5-4)
Oklahoma (5-5)
Oregon St (4-1)
Missouri St (4-1)
Connecticut (4-0)
Mississippi St (4-1)
Texas A&M (4-0)
Indiana (4-0)
DePaul (4-0)
Kentucky (4-1)
Purdue (4-1)
Michigan (4-2)
Texas (4-3)
Syracuse (4-5)
Gonzaga 3-1)
Central Michigan (3-3)
Ohio St (3-1)
Arizona St (3-1)
Duke (3-3)
South Dakota (3-0)
Iowa St (3-2)
West Virginia (3-3)
Virginia (3-5)
St John's (3-5)
Minnesota (3-4)
Nebraska (3-2)
Michigan St (3-3)
Butler (3-4)
Princeton (2-0)
Old Dominion (2-2)
Florida Gulf Coast (2-0)
Virginia Tech (2-2)
Drake (2-1)
Creighton (2-4)
Rutgers (2-3)
Penn (2-2)
Seton Hall (2-4)
Northern Iowa (2-3)
Georgia Tech (2-3)
USC (2-4)
Southern Illinois (2-6)
Georgia (2-5)
North Carolina (2-4)
Auburn (2-7)
Wake Forest (2-9)
Buffalo (2-7)
Texas Tech (2-3)
St Mary's (2-11)


With this analysis there are a few teams that stand out. Tennessee has only 1 quadrant 50 win but no losses against non top 50. Other teams with no such losses but 3 or fewer quadrant 1 wins are South Dakota (3), Princeton (2), Florida Gulf Coast (2) and Stony Brook (0).

Oklahoma has 5 quadrant 1 wins but they are currently under .500. If Oklahoma could win 4 of its last 5 (which would include wins against 2 more top 50 teams) they would have to be seriously considered.

There are several teams with only 1 quadrant 1 win but are still being considered for an at-large berth: Arkansas (1 Q1 win, 2 nonQ1 losses), Marquette (1-2), Oklahoma St (1-2), Bradley (1-2), James Madison (1-2), Western Kentucky (1-3), Middle Tennessee (1-3) and Ohio (1-3). Finally there are 2 teams in the RPI top 50 who do not have a Quadrant 1 win, Troy and Dayton.

(note: these numbers are from Warren Nolan. I noted that in one case a win over Virginia (RPI 51) was included as Q1, but I believe the information is generally accurate.


I know you are a Cal fan, but seems extreme to leave out somebody... Laughing


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 9:05 pm    ::: Re: Hmmm Reply Reply with quote

insidewinder wrote:

I know you are a Cal fan, but seems extreme to leave out somebody... :lol:


No Cal only has 1 Quadrant 1 win.

Seriously that was just an inadvertent mistake (and probably not the only one given the amount of data.)Thanks for catching it.

Stanford has 4 Quadrant 1 wins, impressively all over top 25 teams, and has no losses against non Quadrant 1 teams. Their losses include two top 10 teams and Texas.


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 02/24/20 7:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Updated again early this morning:

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/bracketology

South Carolina, Baylor, Maryland and Oregon are the #1 seeds

In my area of interest - the Big East, DePaul moves down to a 4 seed from a 3 after their loss at Villanova. Marquette suffers a loss at Villanova but moves up this week after moving down in his prediction last week with 2 wins. And they are a procedural bump from a 10 to a 9 - I don't like that - I'd prefer a 10 or 11 to the 8/9 but I don't have much choice Smile. We'll see if they still make it because I don't think things will go so well against DePaul in their last regular season game and who knows how the BET will go for them. And Creighton is still benefitting greatly from the win over DePaul with their predicted Tourney bid - they are in a 3 way tie for 5th in the BE right now at 9-7 with Seton Hall and St. John's with 2 games to go for all teams except for Marquette and DePaul who only have 1 game left.


mzonefan



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PostPosted: 02/24/20 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marquette Fan wrote:
Updated again early this morning:

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/bracketology

South Carolina, Baylor, Maryland and Oregon are the #1 seeds

In my area of interest - the Big East, DePaul moves down to a 4 seed from a 3 after their loss at Villanova. Marquette suffers a loss at Villanova but moves up this week after moving down in his prediction last week with 2 wins. And they are a procedural bump from a 10 to a 9 - I don't like that - I'd prefer a 10 or 11 to the 8/9 but I don't have much choice Smile. We'll see if they still make it because I don't think things will go so well against DePaul in their last regular season game and who knows how the BET will go for them. And Creighton is still benefitting greatly from the win over DePaul with their predicted Tourney bid - they are in a 3 way tie for 5th in the BE right now at 9-7 with Seton Hall and St. John's with 2 games to go for all teams except for Marquette and DePaul who only have 1 game left.


Michigan got the procedural bump in the other direction and is projected to go back to Louisville where we just went last year. Ugh.

How are you feeling about Duffy? Kieger is having one hell of a crappy, last-place year at Penn State.


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 02/24/20 5:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mzonefan wrote:
Marquette Fan wrote:
Updated again early this morning:

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/bracketology

South Carolina, Baylor, Maryland and Oregon are the #1 seeds

In my area of interest - the Big East, DePaul moves down to a 4 seed from a 3 after their loss at Villanova. Marquette suffers a loss at Villanova but moves up this week after moving down in his prediction last week with 2 wins. And they are a procedural bump from a 10 to a 9 - I don't like that - I'd prefer a 10 or 11 to the 8/9 but I don't have much choice Smile. We'll see if they still make it because I don't think things will go so well against DePaul in their last regular season game and who knows how the BET will go for them. And Creighton is still benefitting greatly from the win over DePaul with their predicted Tourney bid - they are in a 3 way tie for 5th in the BE right now at 9-7 with Seton Hall and St. John's with 2 games to go for all teams except for Marquette and DePaul who only have 1 game left.


Michigan got the procedural bump in the other direction and is projected to go back to Louisville where we just went last year. Ugh.

How are you feeling about Duffy? Kieger is having one hell of a crappy, last-place year at Penn State.


I thought it was interesting when Marquette and Michigan were projected to face each other which would put Duffy up against her former boss.

I can't say enough good things about Duffy. I figure she won't be here for long before a bigger school hires her so I'm trying to just enjoy the ride Smile. What they've accomplished this year with what they lost is just incredible. And she's gotten a lot out of the returning players who for the most part didn't get much playing time behind the super 5 who graduated last year (Selena Lott was an exception). I'm blown away by what Altia Anderson has done in her senior year and can't help but wonder if Kieger had worked more on developing her and playing her in her first 3 years at MU, if they wouldn't have been in such a bad spot last year when Erika Davenport tore her ACL. This year's Altia Anderson would have been a great asset last year and I don't think it's like she all the sudden got good as a senior.

I thought it was expected that there's a lot of work ahead of Kieger at Penn State - won't it take a little time for her to turn it around? I wish her the best but am very happy with her replacement right now.


snlMINAJ



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PostPosted: 02/24/20 6:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

maryland 4th number 1 - yikes? i guess good for uconn though.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/25/20 4:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Big East is intriguing. DePaul is in for sure and Marquette is almost certainly in as well. But then comes the crowd with Butler, Villanova, Creighton, St John's and Seton Hall all under consideration. Butler is 11-3 in 2020. With two wins this weekend over the New York area teams they will move into second place and should get an at-large berth (even though Crème doesn't even list them in the first 8 out.) Villanova vaulted back into consideration with a weekend sweep over DePaul and Marquette, but they were bad in non-conference so they will need to sweep Creighton and Providence this weekend and most likely get to the Big East finals to have a shot at an at-large berth. Creighton has been in for Crème based on their wins over DePaul and Marquette, but their resume continues to weaken. They had 3 non-conference wins over Northern Iowa, South Dakota St and West Virginia that don't look as good as they did 2 months ago. A sweep over Villanova and Georgetown would get them up to a tie for 3rd or 4th and that should get them in, but a loss would put them in position where they would have to make a deep run in the Big East tourney.

St. John's and Seton Hall have very similar resumes which makes it surprising why Crème has been so much higher on St. John's. Either team has to sweep this weekend which would put them ahead of Creighton, and even then they will have to get at least one win in the Big East tourney and probably two.

In the end the Big East could get 3 or 4 teams in the NCAA. But who they are depends on this weekend and the Big East tourney.


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 02/25/20 5:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
The Big East is intriguing. DePaul is in for sure and Marquette is almost certainly in as well. But then comes the crowd with Butler, Villanova, Creighton, St John's and Seton Hall all under consideration. Butler is 11-3 in 2020. With two wins this weekend over the New York area teams they will move into second place and should get an at-large berth (even though Crème doesn't even list them in the first 8 out.) Villanova vaulted back into consideration with a weekend sweep over DePaul and Marquette, but they were bad in non-conference so they will need to sweep Creighton and Providence this weekend and most likely get to the Big East finals to have a shot at an at-large berth. Creighton has been in for Crème based on their wins over DePaul and Marquette, but their resume continues to weaken. They had 3 non-conference wins over Northern Iowa, South Dakota St and West Virginia that don't look as good as they did 2 months ago. A sweep over Villanova and Georgetown would get them up to a tie for 3rd or 4th and that should get them in, but a loss would put them in position where they would have to make a deep run in the Big East tourney.

St. John's and Seton Hall have very similar resumes which makes it surprising why Crème has been so much higher on St. John's. Either team has to sweep this weekend which would put them ahead of Creighton, and even then they will have to get at least one win in the Big East tourney and probably two.

In the end the Big East could get 3 or 4 teams in the NCAA. But who they are depends on this weekend and the Big East tourney.


The win over DePaul seems to have been carrying a lot of weight for Creighton when it comes to Creme's predictions. I keep waiting for them to fall out but they haven't so far. I'd love for Creighton to sweep this weekend as a Friday win over Villanova would mean Marquette can finish no worse than 3rd in the Big East. Creighton has an RPI of 42 which isn't too bad. But they may finish 5th or lower in the not so good Big East - not sure if that will be good enough for an at large bid (they could finish as high as 4th and maybe as low as 7th - not sure of all the tiebreaker scenarios - currently tied with Seton Hall and St. John's for 5th at 9-7).

I'm not so sure about an at large bid for Butler - their RPI right now is 89. Two wins this weekend would certainly help but I don't know that would improve their RPI enough for at large consideration.

Villanova has the nice win over DePaul but their RPI is only 71 right now and record is only 16-11 - I don't see them getting an at large bid either.

St. John's (63) and Seton Hall (77) have similar resumes with St. John's with the better RPI. They've been plagued by a ton of close losses. I don't think either of these teams get at large bids either.

DePaul is a lock as you say.

Marquette will probably have me on the edge of my seat for the Selection Monday show unless someone leaks the bracket again Very Happy . They can finish anywhere from 2nd-4th in the BE depending on how they and Villanova and Butler do this weekend. MU has a tall task against DePaul though and I think they're likely to lose. If they lose that game and their first game in the Conference Tournament, I think they will be a definite bubble team. They do have a nice RPI of 37 with no bad losses for now but no good wins either. They should have beaten Northwestern but blew that game at the end of regulation and lost in OT - Selena Lott was out for that game and I think MU would have won that one had she been able to play. But nothing can be done about that and they just didn't get it done.

And this is a prime conference for a bid stealer if anyone but DePaul wins the Conference Tournament.




Last edited by Marquette Fan on 02/25/20 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Matt5762



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PostPosted: 02/25/20 5:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm guessing Creme considers Butler's RPI disqualifying (currently #89). IMO Nebraska (#87) is an even more glaring omission considering their resume compared to those of the other teams on this year's bubble. I believe these numbers are indeed far higher than those of any at-large selection in history, but given the sad state of this year's bubble, it would seem wrong of the committee to blanket rule them out on that basis alone.


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