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Genero36
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tfan
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Genero36
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 Posted: 01/31/20 11:36 pm ::: |
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<embed> <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=28610101&endcard=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0"></iframe></embed>
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28610101
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Genero36
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| Posted: 01/31/20 11:45 pm ::: |
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<embed> <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=28610081&endcard=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0"></iframe></embed>
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28610081
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pilight
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| Posted: 02/01/20 6:51 pm ::: |
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The Kobe Bryant rape case is painful not because of what it says about him, but about us
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/31/kobe-bryant-rape-case-american-misogyny/
| Quote: |
| Sonmez's harassers and their defenders argue that it's "too soon" to talk about the rape case, and that the grief of Bryant's fans and survivors should be honored. This argument, however, assumes that the pain sexual abuse survivors feel when seeing their suffering erased from history doesn't count, which, in turn, assumes that women deserve less consideration than men and their legacy. |
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mercfan3
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| Posted: 02/01/20 8:49 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
The Kobe Bryant rape case is painful not because of what it says about him, but about us
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/31/kobe-bryant-rape-case-american-misogyny/
| Quote: |
| Sonmez's harassers and their defenders argue that it's "too soon" to talk about the rape case, and that the grief of Bryant's fans and survivors should be honored. This argument, however, assumes that the pain sexual abuse survivors feel when seeing their suffering erased from history doesn't count, which, in turn, assumes that women deserve less consideration than men and their legacy. |
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I think a major problem with stories like these is it assumes Bryant was guilty.
He was not convicted of rape, the case was dropped. The evidence released to the public wasn't persuasive in either way. (If anything, in Bryant's favor..) And unlike virtually every other celebrity rape case, there was never any additional charges prior or after. (Which is typical of rapists). And in the past five years, he's been one of sports most vocal and active feminists.
Bottom line is, no one but the two people in the room know what actually happened, but I think there is enough here to give Bryant the benefit of the doubt and honor him for the tremendous amount of good he has done.
And this is coming from a sexual assault survivor.
edit: Case in point..the Johnny Depp situation.
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pilight
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| Posted: 02/01/20 9:03 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Bottom line is, no one but the two people in the room know what actually happened |
My guess is even if we did know, it wouldn't be as cut & dried as either side would like
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/01/20 10:05 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
The Kobe Bryant rape case is painful not because of what it says about him, but about us
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/31/kobe-bryant-rape-case-american-misogyny/
| Quote: |
| Sonmez's harassers and their defenders argue that it's "too soon" to talk about the rape case, and that the grief of Bryant's fans and survivors should be honored. This argument, however, assumes that the pain sexual abuse survivors feel when seeing their suffering erased from history doesn't count, which, in turn, assumes that women deserve less consideration than men and their legacy. |
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I hope to see this same energy in November when one of the options at the polls is to vote for an alleged rapist who had already admitted to grabbing women by the pussy before the last election.
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pilight
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| Posted: 02/01/20 10:06 pm ::: |
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| Genero36 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
The Kobe Bryant rape case is painful not because of what it says about him, but about us
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/31/kobe-bryant-rape-case-american-misogyny/
| Quote: |
| Sonmez's harassers and their defenders argue that it's "too soon" to talk about the rape case, and that the grief of Bryant's fans and survivors should be honored. This argument, however, assumes that the pain sexual abuse survivors feel when seeing their suffering erased from history doesn't count, which, in turn, assumes that women deserve less consideration than men and their legacy. |
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I hope to see this same energy in November when one of the options at the polls is to vote for an alleged rapist who had already admitted to grabbing women by the pussy before the last election. |
Me too! I didn't vote for him before and I'm not planning to this time either.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 02/01/20 10:42 pm ::: |
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There was more physical evidence involved with the Kobe case than there was with the Kavanaugh case. Yet for some reason the "believe women" creed dies down when it becomes inconvenient or invokes complex emotions (like how am I suppose to balance the fact that someone who has done such great things for so many very likely did something so terrible that once).
But the case actually changed the California law as to what sorts of things can be brought up at trial, because the "evidence" that Kobe's team of high priced lawyers ran with was a smear campaign based upon her sexual and mental health history and a ton of highly personal details unrelated to the night in question. There was significant evidence of his guilt (like a rape examination that found trauma consistent with rape, and that she immediately told someone that she was raped), and the only reason the charges were dropped was that the campaign against the accuser was so vile and over the top that she was actually hospitalized and eventually refused testify anymore. Nor should we forget that he actually admitted in his apology letter that he had come to realize that she hadn't actually consented (just that he didn't know it at the time was his excuse).
We don't have to reduce Kobe's life to that one single act and pretend like it means all the good he did in his life meant nothing, nor should we police people's grief, but let's also not whitewash what happened back in Eagle by saying that the evidence was in Bryant's favor, because that most certainly wasn't true, and I've seen some rather vocal supporters of Kobe's calling for justice in other cases when there's been much less evidence.
His death is a tragedy, made even more terrible because of Gigi. And the tributes are uplifting and poignant and heartbreaking and resonant. And we mourn. But we do well to remember we mourn a human being, as flawed as the rest of us. His legacy should be able to stand up to, and even embrace, complex emotions. There is no need to shy away from them.
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/01/20 10:59 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pMU60d-2E0U" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMU60d-2E0U
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/01/20 11:02 pm ::: |
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<embed> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F_t8eoBRCAc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_t8eoBRCAc&t=413s
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Ex-Ref
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mercfan3
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| Posted: 02/02/20 12:01 am ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
There was more physical evidence involved with the Kobe case than there was with the Kavanaugh case. Yet for some reason the "believe women" creed dies down when it becomes inconvenient or invokes complex emotions (like how am I suppose to balance the fact that someone who has done such great things for so many very likely did something so terrible that once).
But the case actually changed the California law as to what sorts of things can be brought up at trial, because the "evidence" that Kobe's team of high priced lawyers ran with was a smear campaign based upon her sexual and mental health history and a ton of highly personal details unrelated to the night in question. There was significant evidence of his guilt (like a rape examination that found trauma consistent with rape, and that she immediately told someone that she was raped), and the only reason the charges were dropped was that the campaign against the accuser was so vile and over the top that she was actually hospitalized and eventually refused testify anymore. Nor should we forget that he actually admitted in his apology letter that he had come to realize that she hadn't actually consented (just that he didn't know it at the time was his excuse).
We don't have to reduce Kobe's life to that one single act and pretend like it means all the good he did in his life meant nothing, nor should we police people's grief, but let's also not whitewash what happened back in Eagle by saying that the evidence was in Bryant's favor, because that most certainly wasn't true, and I've seen some rather vocal supporters of Kobe's calling for justice in other cases when there's been much less evidence.
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I really had no interest in rehashing this.
There was a ton of evidence to the contrary. Like for instance, the rape examination was actually inconclusive - as it was also consistent with having multiple partners in a short period of time, which DNA evidence showed she had.
The case was dropped right after her acquaintances went to prosecutors about texts she sent after the incident, and the judge revealed they were admissible.
It can be true that the treatment of the accuser was horrid (absolutely no argument) and Bryant was innocent. We still haven't figured out how to conduct a he said/she said rape case, nor have we figured out how to assign guilt. It's a character case, but where is the line on evidence against character? In particular, what do you do when your witness and accused aren't perfect people (as will always be the case). There should be an understanding that her sexual history shouldn't matter. But there should also be an understanding that the letter he read, likely drafted by his lawyer - told us nothing.
Kavanaugh had multiple victims. And this is where most of my doubt lies. That was what always stuck out to me about the Bryant case. Rapists rape. Bill Cosby. Micheal Jackson. Jeff Epstein. etc...It's a pattern of behavior. In this case, Prosecutors couldn't find so much as an unwanted grope from a famous athlete. Kobe never had an allegation against him prior, and never had one after. That is not typical.
But this was my point from the get go. You could point to some evidence and say "it was likely he raped her." And I can point to some evidence and say "actually, it was likely he didn't.."
Which again, leads me to..maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt..or he at least deserves to not be written about as if he is definitely a rapist.
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/02/20 7:34 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vlg2LkEfSRQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlg2LkEfSRQ
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/02/20 7:35 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="875" height="492" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z1vut0xZrX0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1vut0xZrX0
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Last edited by Genero36 on 02/03/20 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/03/20 9:17 am ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="875" height="492" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RHh_1IZH9QY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHh_1IZH9QY
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pilight
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| Posted: 02/03/20 9:29 am ::: |
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Kobe Bryant and the Perils of the 'Transcendent' Athlete
https://www.theroot.com/kobe-bryant-and-the-perils-of-the-transcendent-athlete-1841367086
| Quote: |
| we don’t know what a script without the rape case looks like for Bryant’s career. We do know that the case was formative: that the trajectory of his life, and his career, is cleaved between before that night in Colorado, and after. |
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/03/20 10:26 am ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="875" height="492" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZnH_W587mBY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnH_W587mBY
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Genero36
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/03/20 11:33 am ::: |
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Kobe Bryant and Daughter Gianna’s Bodies Released to Family: Los Angeles Coroner’s Office
| Quote: |
| The remains of the late Los Angeles Lakers legend and his 13-year-old child, who died in a helicopter crash on January 26, were released on Saturday, February 2, after officials determined their identities and official cause of death, which was listed as blunt force trauma. |
https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/kobe-bryant-daughter-giannas-bodies-released-to-family/
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/03/20 11:51 am ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="875" height="492" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jct6xeTmf9k" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jct6xeTmf9k
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justintyme
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| Posted: 02/03/20 2:26 pm ::: |
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That was a really well written article. It also helps to highlight exactly why so much disinformation is out there (like how people believe the ME said that the injuries had to do with multiple partners, rather than saying specifically they were consistent with rape and is why her blood ended up on his clothes and that it was the defense that kept suggesting the multiple partner bit based on DNA found in underwear that she hadn't even been wearing that night). The reason why defenses run those smear campaigns against alleged victims is quite simple: because it works.
I would seriously challenge people to go back and really take a look at what evidence was presented and everything surrounding that case with post-#meToo eyes and an open mind. Lindsay Gibbs (one of the Athletic's Mystic WNBA reporters now) wrote a very detailed article back in 2016 that people should read if they want an accurate understanding of the situation.
https://thinkprogress.org/the-legacy-of-the-kobe-bryant-rape-case-6a42f159be7b/
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/03/20 3:24 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti has been involved, of course, in discussions, telling KABC this week that Bryant’s widow, the Lakers, and the city of Los Angeles are working together on choosing the time and place for Bryant’s funeral and memorial.
“We really want to listen to Vanessa, to the Lakers, and make sure that we have a chance and the right way to mourn together, as people have been doing spontaneously out on the streets in the next day or two,” Garcetti said.
“Laying him to rest will be something which we are here, ready to help support the family however, wherever and whenever.” |
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/funeral-for-kobe-bryant-heres-what-is-known-so-far.html/
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Genero36
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| Posted: 02/03/20 4:52 pm ::: |
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December 2019
<embed><iframe width="875" height="492" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wo_zDw_Eitw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo_zDw_Eitw
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was reporting that there was consideration being given to the LA Coliseum over the Staples Center so that there would be enough room (seating for 78,000 vs 20,000). I hope that the family doesn't have to go through that mess. Not EVERYONE needs to be there. Not everyone SHOULD be there. If they want to do a live stream to the LA Coliseum, OK. I hope that Vanessa is not pressured into that. Seriously, even the Staples Center seems rather large to me.