View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
Back to top |
|
PicknLOL
Joined: 16 Jul 2019 Posts: 149
Back to top |
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24326 Location: London
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 12:34 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I don't think it's completely impossible, but I do think he's completely wrong. Delle Donne's a smallish 2-guard in the NBA; who the hell is she guarding without being torn to pieces on every possession? Maya would be small for a point guard.
I also don't think it's of benefit to the women's game to bring up the suggestion and comparison. Who cares? People have occasionally suggested Serena Williams could compete with some of the professional male players, but no one's ever seriously suggested she should play on the men's tour. And that's in an individual, non-contact sport. As Taurasi has said when asked over the years, the physical differences just make a huge difference. Let's celebrate the women for their skill, not make pointless comparisons. |
|
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 12:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Richyyy wrote: |
I don't think it's completely impossible, but I do think he's completely wrong. Delle Donne's a smallish 2-guard in the NBA; who the hell is she guarding without being torn to pieces on every possession? Maya would be small for a point guard.
I also don't think it's of benefit to the women's game to bring up the suggestion and comparison. Who cares? People have occasionally suggested Serena Williams could compete with some of the professional male players, but no one's ever seriously suggested she should play on the men's tour. And that's in an individual, non-contact sport. As Taurasi has said when asked over the years, the physical differences just make a huge difference. Let's celebrate the women for their skill, not make pointless comparisons. |
I agree. I wonder if Kobe is making the statement to boost the support for the women and show that the W is just as viable as the NBA. This generation of NBA players have certainly been more supportive than any other towards the league.
The issue has and will always be physical. The women are more fundamentally sound as they have been for the first 23 years. It's a matter of physicality. Catchings (in her prime) is the closest that I can think of as physically gifted enough to make an NBA roster and that might not be enough. I do think some historic post players can make plays if drawn up for them (i.e. Lisa Leslie, Yo Griffith, Cheryl Miller).
_________________ I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24326 Location: London
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 1:26 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
But Catch was a 3/4. She's a similar size to someone like Chris Paul, a fairly diminutive NBA point guard. That's the sort of position where I could see a hypothetical freakishly gifted female in the men's game - someone who's a big perimeter player in the women's game but skilled and athletic enough to be a guard in the men's. But I don't think we've seen that person exist yet. Players like Leslie and Griffith were 6-5 on a good day. That makes them smaller than, for example, Kobe. Is LLL gonna switch to the 2 when she plays against the guys? |
|
miller40
Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 1334
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 1:36 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
This seems rather silly and unfruitful, and the natural type of conversation that comes from making a man the spokesperson for women’s basketball.
|
|
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 2:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Richyyy wrote: |
But Catch was a 3/4. She's a similar size to someone like Chris Paul, a fairly diminutive NBA point guard. That's the sort of position where I could see a hypothetical freakishly gifted female in the men's game - someone who's a big perimeter player in the women's game but skilled and athletic enough to be a guard in the men's. But I don't think we've seen that person exist yet. Players like Leslie and Griffith were 6-5 on a good day. That makes them smaller than, for example, Kobe. Is LLL gonna switch to the 2 when she plays against the guys? |
I might be biased in favor of Leslie because I've actually seen her (even though in pick-up) take an NBA player or two off the dribble and go the basket. I've seen Tina Thompson do it too.
_________________ I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
|
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3302
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 5:27 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
This entire conversation is ridiculous. Firstly, because Kobe Bryant is so totally the wrong messenger for this; I get that his heart is in the right place, but... no. Off the top of my head, only Derrick Rose and Gilbert Arenas would be worse NBA players to have as the messengers for something like this.
Secondly,
Richyyy wrote: |
But Catch was a 3/4. She's a similar size to someone like Chris Paul, a fairly diminutive NBA point guard... |
Catchings is legitimately bigger (or, at least, taller) than Chris Paul. I mean, you are right about Paul being "diminutive," relative to his peers: he's billed at 6'0", but he's actually closer to 5'10". What I think will work against a woman playing in the NBA, more than anything else, is the speed. There are definitely women in the WNBA who have the skill level, and/or are good enough shooters/scorers to play in the NBA on offense (in very limited, very specific roles), but I can't see any player in the WNBA today, or even at all (with the possible exceptions of Prime!Catchings or Prime!Swoopes) who wouldn't get absolutely cooked on the defensive end.
Genero36 wrote: |
I might be biased in favor of Leslie because I've actually seen her (even though in pick-up) take an NBA player or two off the dribble and go the basket. I've seen Tina Thompson do it too. |
Who was playing help defense in that scenario? Ted from Accounts Payable, or Rudy Gobert?
... And thirdly, fuck that guy! Maybe the rest of you operate in spaces where you're only interacting with other WBB fans, but I don't. Basically my entire internet experience, outside of rebkell, involves me being either the only, or one of less than five WBB fans in that space. And all Kobe's comments are going to is invite the fuckboys I have to deal with everywhere else to give their unsolicited headass opinions about the WNBA.
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
|
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22470 Location: NJ
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 5:41 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Moore and Taurasi(in her prime?) would have to be PGs. As skilled as EDD, don't think she could handle the more physical nature of the NBA. It's still a stretch though.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
Back to top |
|
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
Back to top |
Posted: 01/22/20 7:26 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Silky Johnson wrote: |
Genero36 wrote: |
I might be biased in favor of Leslie because I've actually seen her (even though in pick-up) take an NBA player or two off the dribble and go the basket. I've seen Tina Thompson do it too. |
Who was playing help defense in that scenario? Ted from Accounts Payable, or Rudy Gobert? |
Neither. It was average NBA players who name I can't remember. This was mid 2000's.
_________________ I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
|
|
Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005 Posts: 1739 Location: Seattle
Back to top |
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19725
Back to top |
Posted: 01/23/20 8:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Richyyy wrote: |
I don't think it's completely impossible, but I do think he's completely wrong. Delle Donne's a smallish 2-guard in the NBA; who the hell is she guarding without being torn to pieces on every possession? Maya would be small for a point guard.
I also don't think it's of benefit to the women's game to bring up the suggestion and comparison. Who cares? People have occasionally suggested Serena Williams could compete with some of the professional male players, but no one's ever seriously suggested she should play on the men's tour. And that's in an individual, non-contact sport. As Taurasi has said when asked over the years, the physical differences just make a huge difference. Let's celebrate the women for their skill, not make pointless comparisons. |
It's telling that he picked the best three shooters in the game. IMO, which is where he is coming from. I think if asked, he'd tell you he thinks those three players are better shooters than 90% of the NBA (if not more).
I think if he were to seriously think about the wear and tear on those women's bodies, and defensive issues..he'd end up walking back what he said. But I think his point is that their skillset is the same as high level NBA players.
Kobe Bryant's love for Taurasi remains one of my favorite basketball things.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14102
Back to top |
Posted: 01/24/20 2:12 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Given that his interest in women’s basketball and his support for the league occurred long before any thing happened in Colorado I don’t see how it can be concluded that plays a part into what he is doing now. Yes he is more public now, but how much of that has to do with a change in the times and media and less with anything he is personally trying to do. When I used to go to Sparks games in the early 2000s he would be at the games, he went on the road to watch some playoff games and if I remember correctly he worked out with Lisa Leslie and other Sparks during the off season. So you can feel whatever you want about him and his actions, but how can you concluded anything about his reasons why without looking at him and his history first.
|
|
Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
Back to top |
Posted: 01/24/20 8:23 am ::: |
Reply |
|
mercfan3 wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
I don't think it's completely impossible, but I do think he's completely wrong. Delle Donne's a smallish 2-guard in the NBA; who the hell is she guarding without being torn to pieces on every possession? Maya would be small for a point guard.
I also don't think it's of benefit to the women's game to bring up the suggestion and comparison. Who cares? People have occasionally suggested Serena Williams could compete with some of the professional male players, but no one's ever seriously suggested she should play on the men's tour. And that's in an individual, non-contact sport. As Taurasi has said when asked over the years, the physical differences just make a huge difference. Let's celebrate the women for their skill, not make pointless comparisons. |
It's telling that he picked the best three shooters in the game. IMO, which is where he is coming from. I think if asked, he'd tell you he thinks those three players are better shooters than 90% of the NBA (if not more).
I think if he were to seriously think about the wear and tear on those women's bodies, and defensive issues..he'd end up walking back what he said. But I think his point is that their skillset is the same as high level NBA players.
Kobe Bryant's love for Taurasi remains one of my favorite basketball things. |
All three of those players he mention and any other WNBA players wouldn't be better shooters than 90% of the NBA if they played against NBA players, G-League players, Euroleague, or Men's college basketball players.
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19725
Back to top |
Posted: 01/25/20 7:47 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Davis4632 wrote: |
mercfan3 wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
I don't think it's completely impossible, but I do think he's completely wrong. Delle Donne's a smallish 2-guard in the NBA; who the hell is she guarding without being torn to pieces on every possession? Maya would be small for a point guard.
I also don't think it's of benefit to the women's game to bring up the suggestion and comparison. Who cares? People have occasionally suggested Serena Williams could compete with some of the professional male players, but no one's ever seriously suggested she should play on the men's tour. And that's in an individual, non-contact sport. As Taurasi has said when asked over the years, the physical differences just make a huge difference. Let's celebrate the women for their skill, not make pointless comparisons. |
It's telling that he picked the best three shooters in the game. IMO, which is where he is coming from. I think if asked, he'd tell you he thinks those three players are better shooters than 90% of the NBA (if not more).
I think if he were to seriously think about the wear and tear on those women's bodies, and defensive issues..he'd end up walking back what he said. But I think his point is that their skillset is the same as high level NBA players.
Kobe Bryant's love for Taurasi remains one of my favorite basketball things. |
All three of those players he mention and any other WNBA players wouldn't be better shooters than 90% of the NBA if they played against NBA players, G-League players, Euroleague, or Men's college basketball players. |
Shooting is a skill. If you put those three in a shooting competition, they’d beT at least 90% of the league.
I think Kobe’s point is skill set, and he just didn’t think deeply enough about physical differences.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21901
Back to top |
Posted: 01/25/20 8:51 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I'm pretty sure he just said that stuff for the benefit of his own daughter. No other explanation makes sense to me. In that context I can process it. There's certainly no reason for any player, male or female, not to aspire to be in the NBA.
Maybe he thinks it was a good thing to say. IMO it wasn't. Not helpful at all. Why drag up this pointless comparison again? When a WNBA player can actually complete in the NBA they probably will. (Why wouldn't they? It would be a cool thing and no doubt very lucrative too)
If an NBA player is going to be all pro-women I would also rather it was pretty much anyone other than Kobe "I'm so sorry that your idea of sexual consent is different to mine" Bryant.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63712
Back to top |
Posted: 01/25/20 8:53 am ::: |
Reply |
|
It’s promotional. Why knock the guy for trying to help? That question was a no-win situation for him and he took the best route.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11105
Back to top |
Posted: 01/25/20 12:01 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Shades wrote: |
It’s promotional. Why knock the guy for trying to help? That question was a no-win situation for him and he took the best route. |
I'm a Kobe fan, but this simply isn't true. None of those three, even in their primes, could start or even get off the bench for a P5 men's team, and most likely not for any college men's team.
So to me the problem is overselling the product and leading people to expect more than they'll get. As I was told by a WNBA player when I did a long story on this for SLAM, WNBA players match up well against good high school players, because then the WNBA players' superior skills are not erased by size and athleticism.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 861
Back to top |
Posted: 01/25/20 3:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
mercfan3 wrote: |
Davis4632 wrote: |
mercfan3 wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
I don't think it's completely impossible, but I do think he's completely wrong. Delle Donne's a smallish 2-guard in the NBA; who the hell is she guarding without being torn to pieces on every possession? Maya would be small for a point guard.
I also don't think it's of benefit to the women's game to bring up the suggestion and comparison. Who cares? People have occasionally suggested Serena Williams could compete with some of the professional male players, but no one's ever seriously suggested she should play on the men's tour. And that's in an individual, non-contact sport. As Taurasi has said when asked over the years, the physical differences just make a huge difference. Let's celebrate the women for their skill, not make pointless comparisons. |
It's telling that he picked the best three shooters in the game. IMO, which is where he is coming from. I think if asked, he'd tell you he thinks those three players are better shooters than 90% of the NBA (if not more).
I think if he were to seriously think about the wear and tear on those women's bodies, and defensive issues..he'd end up walking back what he said. But I think his point is that their skillset is the same as high level NBA players.
Kobe Bryant's love for Taurasi remains one of my favorite basketball things. |
All three of those players he mention and any other WNBA players wouldn't be better shooters than 90% of the NBA if they played against NBA players, G-League players, Euroleague, or Men's college basketball players. |
Shooting is a skill. If you put those three in a shooting competition, they’d beT at least 90% of the league.
I think Kobe’s point is skill set, and he just didn’t think deeply enough about physical differences. |
He wasn't taking about those WNBA players beating NBA players in a shooting competition though. He was talking about them being able to play in the NBA. I'm quite sure there's some G League players and some Asia and Euro League players that can beat some NBA players in a shooting competition. The issue is those male players who are in those leagues can't get those shoots off efficiently against NBA players. Most of the young players make it to the league based on potential (which is more than just hitting threes). Some pan out, some don't. Even the worst NBA bench warmers have a successful professional basketball career overseas.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63712
Back to top |
Posted: 01/25/20 5:05 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
ClayK wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
It’s promotional. Why knock the guy for trying to help? That question was a no-win situation for him and he took the best route. |
I'm a Kobe fan, but this simply isn't true. None of those three, even in their primes, could start or even get off the bench for a P5 men's team, and most likely not for any college men's team. |
So knock the reporter who asked the question. Don’t expect Kobe to give the cynical answer you believe you would give under the same situation and thus come off as misogynistic. Kobe has an image to preserve. You don’t give a crap.
ClayK wrote: |
So to me the problem is overselling the product and leading people to expect more than they'll get. |
I don’t think overselling the WNBA is a problem anybody has to worry about.
ClayK wrote: |
As I was told by a WNBA player when I did a long story on this for SLAM, WNBA players match up well against good high school players, because then the WNBA players' superior skills are not erased by size and athleticism. |
Do you still write stories for SLAM?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11105
Back to top |
Posted: 01/26/20 10:25 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Shades being Shades ... I'd try to answer but there's not much point.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
|
|
|