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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 01/21/20 8:29 am ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| I thought it was Gail. Barry? RAF? |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| After Duke beat Tennessee in the 2002 Jimmy V Classic, Beard said the game was "like the beginning of our dynasty." |
Glenn is correct. Alana Beard made the statement, expressing a wish of Duke becoming a dynasty, in November 2002, after defeating Tennessee in the Jimmy V Classic.
Gail did not make the statement, but over the years, posters on other message boards have incorrectly reported that Gail made the statement.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/21/20 8:39 am ::: |
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RECENT PROGRAM DIRECTION - DUKE
(Last 4 full seasons with Joanne P. McCallie at the helm, plus the 2019-20 season to date).
Looking at Joanne P. McCallie's 12+ years at Duke does not take into account the direction of the program, based on the previous four seasons before 2019-20, plus the current season to date (January 21, 2019).
OVERALL RECORD
McCallie: 96-62 (60.76 percent)
ACC RECORD
McCallie: 41-30 (57.75 percent)
ACC FINISHES
McCallie: Zero regular season ACC titles, Zero ACCT championships, Zero years finishing 1st, one year finishing 2nd, one year finishing 4th, one year finishing 7th, one year finishing 10th; currently in 10th place in 2019-20 ACC Standings after 7 conference games)
NCAA RECORD
McCallie: 3-2 (Zero Final Fours, Zero Elite Eights, one Sweet 16, one Second Round loss, two years missing the NCAAT altogether - likely to be three out of the last five years missing the NCAAT altogether).
RANKED OPPONENTS
Against Top 5 Opponents
McCallie: 1-11 (8.33 percent)
Against Top 10 Opponents
McCallie: 4-19 (17.39 percent)
Against Ranked Opponents (Top 25)
McCallie: 13-27 (32.50 percent)
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/21/20 11:16 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
RECENT PROGRAM DIRECTION - DUKE
(Last 4 full seasons with Joanne P. McCallie at the helm, plus the 2019-20 season to date).
Looking at Joanne P. McCallie's 12+ years at Duke does not take into account the direction of the program, based on the previous four seasons before 2019-20, plus the current season to date (January 21, 2019).
OVERALL RECORD
McCallie: 96-62 (60.76 percent)
ACC RECORD
McCallie: 41-30 (57.75 percent)
ACC FINISHES
McCallie: Zero regular season ACC titles, Zero ACCT championships, Zero years finishing 1st, one year finishing 2nd, one year finishing 4th, one year finishing 7th, one year finishing 10th; currently in 10th place in 2019-20 ACC Standings after 7 conference games)
NCAA RECORD
McCallie: 3-2 (Zero Final Fours, Zero Elite Eights, one Sweet 16, one Second Round loss, two years missing the NCAAT altogether - likely to be three out of the last five years missing the NCAAT altogether).
RANKED OPPONENTS
Against Top 5 Opponents
McCallie: 1-11 (8.33 percent)
Against Top 10 Opponents
McCallie: 4-19 (17.39 percent)
Against Ranked Opponents (Top 25)
McCallie: 13-27 (32.50 percent) |
Please do a side-by-side with previous coaches so her defenders (of which there seem to still be a few on this board) can see exactly what has happened to this once marquee program. Thanks.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/21/20 4:24 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Please do a side-by-side with previous coaches so her defenders (of which there seem to still be a few on this board) can see exactly what has happened to this once marquee program. Thanks. |
20th Century Program Assessment
(Last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors’s tenure vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season)
OVERALL RECORD (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 220-25 (89.79 percent)
McCallie: 312-95 (76.65 percent)
ACC RECORD (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 98-8 (92.45 percent)
McCallie: 138-48 (74.19 percent)
ACC FINISHES (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 6 regular season ACC titles, 4 ACCT championships, 6 years finishing 1st, 1 year finishing 2nd
McCallie: 4 regular season ACC titles, 3 ACCT championships, 4 years finishing 1st, 2 years finishing 2nd, 2 years finishing 3rd, 2 years finishing 4th, 1 year finishing 7th, 1 year finishing 10th
NCAA RECORD (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 23-7 (one NCAA runner-up, three Final Fours, five years at least making the Elite Eight, all seven years at least making the Sweet 16)
McCallie: 21-10 (zero Final Fours, four Elite Eights, seven years at least making the Sweet 16, three second round losses, two years missing the NCAAT altogether)
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PREVIOUS DECADE ANALYSIS
(Last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors’s tenure vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season)
OVERALL RECORD (last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 301-46 (86.74 percent)
McCallie: 312-95 (76.65 percent)
ACC RECORD (last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 138-16 (89.61 percent)
McCallie: 138-48 (74.19 percent)
ACC FINISHES (last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 8 regular season ACC titles, 5 ACCT championships, 8 years finishing 1st, 2 years finishing 2nd
McCallie: 4 regular season ACC titles, 3 ACCT championships, 4 years finishing 1st, 2 years finishing 2nd, 2 years finishing 3rd, 2 years finishing 4th, 1 year finishing 7th, 1 year finishing 10th
NCAA RECORD (last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 33-10 (two NCAA runners-up, four Final Fours, seven years at least making the Elite Eight, all ten years at least making the Sweet 16)
McCallie: 21-10 (zero Final Fours, four Elite Eights, seven years at least making the Sweet 16, three second round losses, two years missing the NCAAT altogether)
___________________________________________
RANKED OPPONENTS (20th Century Program Assessment)
(Last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors’s tenure vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season)
Against Top 5 Opponents (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 15-14 (51.72 percent)
McCallie: 8-36 (18.18 percent)
Against Top 10 Opponents (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 25-14 (64.10 percent)
McCallie: 22-49 (30.98 percent)
Against Ranked (Top 25) Opponents (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 60-20 (80.00 percent)
McCallie: 72-67 (51.79 percent)
___________________________________________
RANKED OPPONENTS (Previous Decade Analysis)
(Last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors’s tenure vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season)
Against Top 5 Opponents (last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 18-18 (50.00 percent)
McCallie: 8-36 (18.18 percent)
Against Top 10 Opponents (last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 34-18 (65.38 percent)
McCallie: 22-49 (30.98 percent)
Against Ranked Opponents (last 10 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 12 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including 2019-20, the current season):
Goestenkors: 81-34 (70.43 percent)
McCallie: 72-67 (51.79 percent)
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/21/20 4:45 pm ::: |
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| And I suspect if you dug into their respective recruiting records, that would tell you even more. I looked through Raoul's list of 2020 signees, and Duke's cupboard looks mighty bare. Not to mention how many players may be thinking about transferring, something we won't hear about until the end of the season.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/22/20 1:50 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| And I suspect if you dug into their respective recruiting records, that would tell you even more. I looked through Raoul's list of 2020 signees, and Duke's cupboard looks mighty bare. Not to mention how many players may be thinking about transferring, something we won't hear about until the end of the season. |
Remember McCallie had a nice little recruiting run there when she had Joy Cheek, Shannon Perry, and even Trisha Stafford Odom on her staff before she ran them all off. The Chelsea Gray/Liston/Peters class was a highlight and of course Elizabeth Williams was considered a top recruit in the 2011 HS class.
Most of the talent on the roster graduates with Lambert (I think), Gorecki and Odom all moving on after this year.
Even with missing two NCAAs in a row, it's going to get even more ugly in Durham very soon.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/22/20 2:04 pm ::: |
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| Is there any sense that Duke cares about the women's basketball program? Obviously, for a contract to be bought out, there would have to some serious administrative buy-in.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/22/20 2:32 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| And I suspect if you dug into their respective recruiting records, that would tell you even more. I looked through Raoul's list of 2020 signees, and Duke's cupboard looks mighty bare. Not to mention how many players may be thinking about transferring, something we won't hear about until the end of the season. |
Between 2013 and 2016, Duke had 5 players transfer and 1 player leave early to play professional basketball in Europe.
In April 2016, Duke began an internal investigation of head coach Joanne P. McCallie's program for possible mistreatment of players and coaches, citing multiple unnamed sources.
The complaint that led to the investigation was initiated by Elizabeth Williams, who said no mistreatment was physical or criminal in nature but described the program's atmosphere with McCallie at the helm as negative.
Since the investigation was completed and McCallie was retained, here are the recruits who have committed to and signed with Duke:
CLASS OF 2017
JAYDA ADAMS
#36 - Prospects Nation
#43 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#88 - Blue Star Report
**Not listed in espnW/Hoopgurlz’s top 100
MIKAYLA BOYKIN
#16 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#18 - Blue Star Report
#21 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#40 - Prospects Nation
MADISON TREECE
#28 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#71 - Blue Star Report
#81 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#137 - Prospects Nation
**Note: Madison Treece transferred to Belmont after 1.5 years at Duke.
JADE WILLIAMS
#13 - Blue Star Report
#14 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#15 - Prospects Nation
#21 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
CLASS OF 2018
ONOME AKINBODE-JAMES
#62 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#77 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#104 - Prospects Nation
#112 - Blue Star Report
RAYAH CRAIG
#76 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#84 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#105 - Prospects Nation
#145 - Blue Star Report
Note: After playing the fall semester, Rayah Craig was not enrolled at Duke during the 2019 spring semester due to "an unspecified violation of university policy” and has not returned to Duke.
UCHENNA NWOKE
#64 - Prospects Nation
#93 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#150 - Blue Star Report
**Not listed in espnW/Hoopgurlz’s top 100
CLASS OF 2019
AZANA BAINES
#24 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#33 - Prospects Nation
#61 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#121 - Blue Star Report
JAIDA PATRICK
#23 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#38 - Prospects Nation
#57 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#115 - Blue Star Report
JENNIFER EZEH
#62 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#65 - espnW/Hoopgurlz
#103 - Prospects Nation
#111 - Blue Star Report
JADA CLAUDE
#248 - Blue Star Report
**Not listed in espnW/Hoopgurlz’s top 100
**Not listed in Prospect Nations’ top 150
CLASS OF 2020
VANESSA DEJESUS
#37 – espnW/Hoopgurlz
#65 - Blue Star Report
#85 - All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#105 - Prospects Nation
There has been a definite drop-off, in terms of elite talent committing to Duke.
McCallie survived a much-publicized review of her program following the 2016 season. Per one insider, a kinder, gentler McCallie seems to have emerged.
But irrespective of Coach P's tenor, the aftermath of the investigation has apparently killed her ability to recruit elite players. And she has not demonstrated -- at least at Duke -- the ability to consistently develop players who are not already elite players coming out of high school.
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PRballer
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| Posted: 01/22/20 4:38 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| Is there any sense that Duke cares about the women's basketball program? Obviously, for a contract to be bought out, there would have to some serious administrative buy-in. |
Coach K reigns supreme. This was also an issue when Coach G had a nationally recognized/competitive program. It's men's basketball and football and then everyone else (though that's not say that Duke isn't successful in other, non-revenue sports. Certainly some programs are elite).
For the women's program, Duke is getting what it deserves.
(Personally, I was so disappointed in 2007-8 and I remember the horrid Vanderbilt and Penn State games in particular; then I had hope in 2010/2011 for a bit with the Elite 8 runs even though the offense wasn't that pretty and then 2016 happened but I've learned to let it go. Seeing boring, losing basketball with scores in the low 50's and fan turnouts in the 2K zone in Cameron is a bad look for Duke and their women's athletics teams. The message is clear and Duke had a chance to get rid of her in 2016).
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/23/20 11:05 am ::: |
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So Duke's reputation as a school helps it recruit nationally, but if an elite recruit has any sources that know much about college basketball, she will be told to cross Duke off her list due to McCallie's history. Nobody wants to have a miserable experience.
But if Leonna Odom comes back to SoCal and starts telling people she liked McCallie and had a great time at Duke, then that perception could change and the tables could start to turn.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/23/20 11:11 am ::: |
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| Duke's reputation is pretty much all based on Goestenkors. They were about the same under Debbie Leonard as they are now.
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PRballer
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| Posted: 01/23/20 12:20 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Duke's reputation is pretty much all based on Goestenkors. They were about the same under Debbie Leonard as they are now. |
I'm not a McCallie apologist, but she's definitely had more success than Leonard. Leonard had once NCAA tournament in her 15 years (1987) and while Joanne is a complete dumpster fire of a coach, she did take them to four straight Elite Eight's and a couple more Sweet 16's.
But yes, you can argue she had a very nice, full cupboard when she arrived in 2007.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/23/20 5:01 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Duke's reputation is pretty much all based on Goestenkors. They were about the same under Debbie Leonard as they are now. |
I'm not a McCallie apologist, but she's definitely had more success than Leonard. Leonard had once NCAA tournament in her 15 years (1987) and while Joanne is a complete dumpster fire of a coach, she did take them to four straight Elite Eight's and a couple more Sweet 16's.
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To pilight's point (and emphasizing his use of "now"), Duke is very likely to miss the NCAA Tournament for the third time in five years. Duke was at .500 last year and is likely to be at or below .500 this year.
Those numbers are very much in line with the Debbie Leonard years.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/23/20 5:53 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Duke's reputation is pretty much all based on Goestenkors. They were about the same under Debbie Leonard as they are now. |
I'm not a McCallie apologist, but she's definitely had more success than Leonard. Leonard had once NCAA tournament in her 15 years (1987) and while Joanne is a complete dumpster fire of a coach, she did take them to four straight Elite Eight's and a couple more Sweet 16's.
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To pilight's point (and emphasizing his use of "now"), Duke is very likely to miss the NCAA Tournament for the third time in five years. Duke was at .500 last year and is likely to be at or below .500 this year.
Those numbers are very much in line with the Debbie Leonard years. |
Since we're comparing JPM to Debbie Leonard, it must be mentioned that Debbie had a very small fraction of admin support experienced by JPM. During most of Leonard's tenure, she had an AC who was also head coach of another sport. Debbie had her issues with player treatment as I personally recall watching her physically pull/yank a player off the court. Leonard also had to make do with a fraction of the million dollar salary that the undeserving JPm receives.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 01/24/20 2:57 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Parity is great, but it then requires a fan to make an effort to keep up and recall if Arkansas is good now, or why Notre Dame is losing games against teams it used to beat handily.
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In what way is someone a WBB college fan if they don't want to follow the games?
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/24/20 10:44 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Parity is great, but it then requires a fan to make an effort to keep up and recall if Arkansas is good now, or why Notre Dame is losing games against teams it used to beat handily.
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In what way is someone a WBB college fan if they don't want to follow the games? |
The casual fan -- as I am a casual fan of the men's game -- just looks at the headlines or her Twitter feed or whatever, and watches games when it's convenient or she stumbles across one while flipping channels.
The serious fan, of course, is in a different category.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 01/24/20 4:40 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Parity is great, but it then requires a fan to make an effort to keep up and recall if Arkansas is good now, or why Notre Dame is losing games against teams it used to beat handily.
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In what way is someone a WBB college fan if they don't want to follow the games? |
The casual fan -- as I am a casual fan of the men's game -- just looks at the headlines or her Twitter feed or whatever, and watches games when it's convenient or she stumbles across one while flipping channels.
The serious fan, of course, is in a different category. |
So when you are flipping channels and find a men's game you want the teams to both be as good as they were for the last 10 years so you can have a good idea of the outcome of the game right from the start? You want no parity and no variance in results year to year? Same thing for when you are looking at mens's basketball headlines and twitter feeds - you want to see "once again, the North Carolina Tarheels are at #1 for the 10th year in a row" and would not be happy if you saw "Cincinnati Bearcats now ranked #1 for first time in history"?
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/25/20 12:22 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Parity is great, but it then requires a fan to make an effort to keep up and recall if Arkansas is good now, or why Notre Dame is losing games against teams it used to beat handily.
|
In what way is someone a WBB college fan if they don't want to follow the games? |
The casual fan -- as I am a casual fan of the men's game -- just looks at the headlines or her Twitter feed or whatever, and watches games when it's convenient or she stumbles across one while flipping channels.
The serious fan, of course, is in a different category. |
So when you are flipping channels and find a men's game you want the teams to both be as good as they were for the last 10 years so you can have a good idea of the outcome of the game right from the start? You want no parity and no variance in results year to year? Same thing for when you are looking at mens's basketball headlines and twitter feeds - you want to see "once again, the North Carolina Tarheels are at #1 for the 10th year in a row" and would not be happy if you saw "Cincinnati Bearcats now ranked #1 for first time in history"? |
I just want to have a sense of what I'm watching. I don't know the players, I don't know anything about the teams, but I'm more likely to pay attention if it's Kansas and Duke than if it's Iowa State and Illinois.
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 02/16/20 7:08 pm ::: |
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| Y'all waited too late!! Coach JPM has got the Blue Devils resurging!! Four straight conference wins!
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 02/16/20 7:12 pm ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| Y'all waited too late!! Coach JPM has got the Blue Devils resurging!! Four straight conference wins! |
Duke's now a near-lock to make the NCAA Tournament with just a couple more wins since all the other teams in the NCAA have decided to suck!
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