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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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 Posted: 01/16/20 9:48 am ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| mavcarter wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
I am confused on why some players signed contract extensions last season when everyone knew that a new players CBA was coming in 2020 with a significant increase in players' salaries coming with the new CBA?  |
Nobody actually knew what the CBA would look like |
Got a point. But someone like Fowles, who is still a max player at her age, left six figures on the table by signing that extension before the new CBA and signed a multi-year at that. She’s near the end of her career, but still.. |
Sometimes vets sign for less if that means that their team can add extra firepower. |
Yeah, but back when Taylor and Taurasi actually got some positive publicity for it, or over the years when the stars have done it to some extent in Minnesota, we've generally been talking about $5,000. That's it. Not close to $100,000.
Signing those extensions was weird at the time. I was already hearing that the new CBA was expected to bring significantly higher salaries, so WNBA agents certainly should've been hearing it. It was a reasonable assumption even if you don't talk to anyone. The only explanation I can offer is that, as we've seen in the NBA over the years, players often favour security over having the patience to wait for a bigger payday. You never know if an injury might happen, or if the team in the city you want to play in might develop other priorities.
In fairness, there were only three extensions signed towards the end of last season (plus the Powers one right near the start). It's not like there was a huge wave of deals. |
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 01/16/20 2:12 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| mavcarter wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| I am confused on why some players signed contract extensions last season when everyone knew that a new players CBA was coming in 2020 with a significant increase in players' salaries coming with the new CBA? :? |
Nobody actually knew what the CBA would look like |
Got a point. But someone like Fowles, who is still a max player at her age, left six figures on the table by signing that extension before the new CBA and signed a multi-year at that. She’s near the end of her career, but still.. |
Sometimes vets sign for less if that means that their team can add extra firepower. |
Maybe, but I'll bet you lunch that that's not why she did it. @pilight had it right: nobody knew what the new CBA was going to look like, so Fowles decided to hedge her bets. There may have been rumblings about salary increases, but there was still a greater-than-zero percent chance that the owners would have been like, "Take this lowball offer, or we'll shut this shit down." Fowles knew that there was a potential big payoff in giving herself the opportunity to raise her salary, but the smart play was in making sure that, worst-case scenario, she didn't lose any salary.
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mavcarter
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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| Posted: 01/16/20 2:25 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Fowles knew that there was a potential big payoff in giving herself the opportunity to raise her salary, but the smart play was in making sure that, worst-case scenario, she didn't lose any salary. |
Great point._________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 01/16/20 2:46 pm ::: |
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| I’m unconvinced that players already signed get “screwed over”. Teams should be able rework contracts, and if teams don’t want to do that, it may not bode well for the future of these player relationships.
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 01/16/20 3:34 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iQbG8nheu6Q" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQbG8nheu6Q
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 01/16/20 3:36 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/azAwSbSlwNo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azAwSbSlwNo
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Genero36
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Genero36
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| Posted: 01/16/20 4:15 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b9ZpS4AnfOc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ZpS4AnfOc
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TigerVol
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 01/16/20 4:16 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| I’m unconvinced that players already signed get “screwed over”. Teams should be able rework contracts, and if teams don’t want to do that, it may not bode well for the future of these player relationships. |
I agree.
The cap went up so I can't imagine that will all go to newly signed players with nothing to those who chose to commit.
Too much trumpeting everyone gets an increase for it to mean everyone not under contract.
Don't think you'd see 90%± ratification.
In companies with grade or level reorg the process includes adjusting salaries - maybe not all at once but it is a consideration.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Genero36
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| Posted: 01/16/20 4:24 pm ::: |
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<embed><iframe width="638" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B2wgPHUCANw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2wgPHUCANw
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/16/20 7:53 pm ::: |
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| I think the most interesting bit of info about the new CBA may be what happens to the salary minimum. Will it go up by 30% right away, or will it be just a minor percentage increase. If the later could allow the "cheap/poor" teams to go for the minimum to save a lot of $. With so many players already on old deals may be hard for teams to make a 30% higher minimum as well. If it is a big jump like that you might see some pretty crazy one year deals out there....
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 01/16/20 8:04 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| I think the most interesting bit of info about the new CBA may be what happens to the salary minimum. Will it go up by 30% right away, or will it be just a minor percentage increase. If the later could allow the "cheap/poor" teams to go for the minimum to save a lot of $. With so many players already on old deals may be hard for teams to make a 30% higher minimum as well. If it is a big jump like that you might see some pretty crazy one year deals out there.... |
Looking at the previous scale, last year top rookies got $53,537 and low-end rookies got $41,956. The vet minimum was $56,375. I think I read in one of the CBA pieces that top rookies were going to get 68k in the new deal (although I don't remember if that was definitely this year or just at some point). If that's right, I'd guess the vet minimum goes to 70k ish. It looks like they specifically made it more than any rookie was getting in the past, so I'd expect them to stick to that. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/16/20 9:27 pm ::: |
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| Sorry I wasn't clear Richyyy. I was wondering about the team salary minimum. As I understand it in the past it was 90% of the salary cap. I was wondering if it would now be 90% of the 1.3 M or just some increment over the old team salary minimum. I haven't seen that discussed. Thanks anyway though.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 01/16/20 9:53 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Sorry I wasn't clear Richyyy. I was wondering about the team salary minimum. As I understand it in the past it was 90% of the salary cap. I was wondering if it would now be 90% of the 1.3 M or just some increment over the old team salary minimum. I haven't seen that discussed. Thanks anyway though. |
Oh okay. Yeah, teams with plenty of old deals on the books could give out big short-term deals to players who don't necessarily warrant it because they've got so much room. But bear in mind that there's never really been any penalty to being below the minimum (and I don't expect that to change). All the team has to do is split the cash they're below the minimum amongst the eligible players on their roster. So if you're 120k under the team minimum and all 12 players are allowed to get a bonus, everyone gets 10k extra and you're done. So teams may just stand pat with a crapload of cap room and not really do anything with it. |
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 01/17/20 3:23 pm ::: |
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If your information is accurate (2020 previously signed deals are written in stone), there will be a major imbalance in the league this year. Teams like Conn https://highposthoops.com/2020/01/16/connecticut-sun-salary-cap/ , ,with a ton of players to sign, will have to jettison someone like Clarendon, while LA and Sea (almost all high salaries under contract at no more than $115k per) will have plenty of cap space to actually add high paid stars......How far fetched that either might go for someone like Angel McCoughtry?
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 01/17/20 3:45 pm ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
| .How far fetched that either might go for someone like Angel McCoughtry? |
I think she may have another year to be cored.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 01/17/20 4:05 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| .How far fetched that either might go for someone like Angel McCoughtry? |
I think she may have another year to be cored. |
I was just throwing out a possible example, though judging by her statements at the end of last season, Angel might very well be done in Atlanta. With no room in Conn for Clarendon, might not LA be a good landing spot for her (they could pay her almost twice as much as Neka...lol). She would make for a much better backup than the likes of Weise and Maybry.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 01/17/20 5:09 pm ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
If your information is accurate (2020 previously signed deals are written in stone), there will be a major imbalance in the league this year. Teams like Conn https://highposthoops.com/2020/01/16/connecticut-sun-salary-cap/ , ,with a ton of players to sign, will have to jettison someone like Clarendon, while LA and Sea (almost all high salaries under contract at no more than $115k per) will have plenty of cap space to actually add high paid stars......How far fetched that either might go for someone like Angel McCoughtry? |
Eh. Conn may have 'tons of players to sign', but most of them were part of last year's dreadful bench. I'm sure they can find other, cheaper players who could also be dreadful.
If you do the maths, keeping Thomases, BJones because she's cheap, Plaisance because that dumbass contract is guaranteed, then paying JJones and CWilliams the new max, you hit about 830k for six players. Leaves 470k ish to pay 5 or 6 more, whether it's any of Stricklen/Holmes/Clarendon/Banham/Tuck or others from elsewhere. They might give Stricklen six-figures to stay, but I'd let anyone else offered something in that region walk. Do you get much more from Clarendon than from a hopefully-still-improving Hiedeman? |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/17/20 5:33 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| .How far fetched that either might go for someone like Angel McCoughtry? |
I think she may have another year to be cored. |
It all depends on whether her two second cameo at the end of last year counts as a season
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 01/21/20 5:32 am ::: |
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Anyone really read the contract?
So here is my 2 cents coming from a female perspective who is just sick of all the talk about raising up women then women shitting on women.
Don’t get me wrong. The elites deserve their money but couldn’t they have at least thrown the underlings a bone. Keep In mind that this is an 8 year contract. BTW who the eff signs an 8 year when women have momentum and they really haven’t gotten most of what they need.
So the elites get their money sure they deserve it, not begrudging, then retire and the majority of the underlings are still only getting around or just over 50k and WILL go wherever to earn more money as their shelf life is short.
Owners can use the max to tell all the other players well we can only give you all the lowest because we have to pay Sally her Max, isn’t that what you all wanted.
Plus, by rolling out this 500k crap, they have just put out the perception that ALL these players are getting that kind of money SMFH
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 01/21/20 5:55 am ::: |
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Slight correction to what I posted before: https://twitter.com/RichardCohen1/status/1219573337011163137?s=20
Makes sense like this. If you took a multi-year deal in the past, knowing a new deal was coming, then you generally get what you signed for. But the league has established a new base-line with the new deal, so everyone comes up to getting at least that. Like they changed the minimum wage. |
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 01/21/20 5:36 pm ::: |
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| I think Aja Wilson should get a lot of credit for this increase. It seems like her tweet that said “154M........must. be. nice. We over here looking for 1M” jump started the whole idea of a major boost in salary.
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WNBA 09
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