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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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 Posted: 01/14/20 9:45 pm ::: |
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| Cabbage going awf on her IG daily story ....I wish posting photos were easy like back in the day. She’s pretty much saying this 500k is BS and it will only go to the Top 1% player per year. They were already making 6 figures so jumping from 100k to 215K is not much at all from her “Can’t pay rent” standpoint......
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 01/14/20 10:00 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Cabbage going awf on her IG daily story ....I wish posting photos were easy like back in the day. She’s pretty much saying this 500k is BS and it will only go to the Top 1% player per year. They were already making 6 figures so jumping from 100k to 215K is not much at all from her “Can’t pay rent” standpoint...... |
She knows she won't stay in the US in the offseason to possibly make that 500k. But 215k ain't bad.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21927
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| Posted: 01/14/20 10:02 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Cabbage going awf on her IG daily story ....I wish posting photos were easy like back in the day. She’s pretty much saying this 500k is BS and it will only go to the Top 1% player per year. They were already making 6 figures so jumping from 100k to 215K is not much at all from her “Can’t pay rent” standpoint...... |
She knows she won't stay in the US in the offseason to possibly make that 500k. But 215k ain't bad. |
Pfft... have you ever tried paying off a mortgage whilst earning a mere $215k for < 6 months work while having virtually no living expenses? I bet you haven't.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 01/14/20 10:36 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
As I've said elsewhere, until they say otherwise there's no reason to expect existing contracts to change under the new CBA. You don't sign for 'MAX' in a WNBA contract, you sign for $X in Year 1, $Y in Year 2 etc. Those numbers have never been retrospectively changed when previous CBAs changed the boundaries around them, so I'm not expecting them to do so this time.
So, for example, Jasmine Thomas and Alyssa Thomas both signed 'max' deals in Connecticut that they'll still be under in 2020. Jonquel Jones and Courtney Williams will both be RFAs and it'll likely take 'max' deals to keep them. But Thomas/Thomas will likely stay on a 120k-ish 'max', while Jones/Williams will be on the new 215k 'max' (assuming they meet whatever requirements have been specified for it).
All just educated guesswork for now until we see the actual CBA, of course. If that's right, it means we might see a few extra cap issues this offseason, but the full impact won't be felt until everyone's off the deals they signed under the old CBA. Suddenly Alyssa Thomas or Sylvia Fowles for 120k looks like a bargain. |
The nuances will be interesting. Yes, it may well be that max players on the second year of contracts are stuck way below the new max, but I would guess, depending on the quality and age of player, several will be offered new multi-year contracts at the $215k rate. It seems highly unlikely that Seattle, for instance, would hold Jewel Loyd to a previously agreed salary $100k less than other stars. A team can only core one player, and the Storm, with Stew and Howard, had best keep them all happy.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: New York
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 01/14/20 10:56 pm ::: |
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To be pedantic, the days of $15 league pass were already behind us anyway.
Last year it was $16.99, which was still an absolute steal
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 01/14/20 11:10 pm ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
| The nuances will be interesting. Yes, it may well be that max players on the second year of contracts are stuck way below the new max, but I would guess, depending on the quality and age of player, several will be offered new multi-year contracts at the $215k rate. |
You can't do that (barring an unlikely change in the new agreement, obviously). Only way to change what a player on your roster is earning would be to do what the Mercury did last year with Mitchell - waive her, hope she passes through waivers, then re-sign her to a new deal. You obviously don't do that with a star player because they wouldn't pass through waivers.
Of course, all these players are going to be eligible for the stuff that's outside the contract parameters in the new CBA. And as the max is 215k but they're saying players can earn over 500k, a player like Fowles, Loyd etc. who's on around 120k still has the potential to earn around 400k. The biggest differences from now on could be from the extra stuff, not the base salary amount that's being used for cap calculations. |
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 9199
Location: St. Paul, MN
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| Posted: 01/15/20 12:55 am ::: |
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| I'm curious about how this salary increase is going to impact teams with veteran players who aren't real contributors to their team. Will teams be less likely to sign a vet who only gives them a few solid minutes a game, or be willing to have them sitting on the bench for big money? That big paycheck still may not go to the real "stars" of most teams.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 01/15/20 1:17 am ::: |
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It is possible that role playing vets will no longer get the max (say you fall into the low starter/high bench range) but will get say 150K-175K which is still a big step up.
An interesting side effect might by more player movement. A team with more cap space might be willing to take a chance on someone and offer them more than a team with a number of stars already in place, so poaching might be more realistic than it has been in the past.
One team being willing to pay 135K and another being willing to pay 185K is probably a significant enough difference to go with the second team regardless of other circumstances.
With the greater range of salaries you can't just assume that a decent RFA will get maxed and matched.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/15/20 10:05 am ::: |
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So if rookie contracts remain roughly the same -- four years at a lower rate than veterans, conceivably much lower -- and contracts for the top players increase in value, it's pretty clear who will get squeezed: Bench players in their fifth year and above.
This has happened before in other leagues, and I'm curious to see how it works in the WNBA, but at this point, it looks pretty clear: The bottom four (or five or maybe even six) spots on any roster will be for those on their rookie contracts. The top three players will make a lot more. The losers will be the veterans who bring a little more to the table than the rookies, but at a significantly higher price -- unless they agree to play for close to the same amount of money the rookies get.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/15/20 10:37 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
Of course, all these players are going to be eligible for the stuff that's outside the contract parameters in the new CBA. And as the max is 215k but they're saying players can earn over 500k, a player like Fowles, Loyd etc. who's on around 120k still has the potential to earn around 400k. The biggest differences from now on could be from the extra stuff, not the base salary amount that's being used for cap calculations. |
That's an excellent point. Right now, the players getting screwed the most are young stars stuck with rookie contracts. Any extra money beyond direct salary that is merit-based will help close the gap and make things somewhat fairer.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 01/15/20 10:39 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
So if rookie contracts remain roughly the same -- four years at a lower rate than veterans, conceivably much lower -- and contracts for the top players increase in value, it's pretty clear who will get squeezed: Bench players in their fifth year and above.
This has happened before in other leagues, and I'm curious to see how it works in the WNBA, but at this point, it looks pretty clear: The bottom four (or five or maybe even six) spots on any roster will be for those on their rookie contracts. The top three players will make a lot more. The losers will be the veterans who bring a little more to the table than the rookies, but at a significantly higher price -- unless they agree to play for close to the same amount of money the rookies get. |
Which is a big part of why Engelbert has tried to make it clear in the last couple of days that 'everybody gets more'. If the genuine stars on 215k now, do you care if your likely wage just went from 118k to 130k? There might be some envy in places, but I think most slightly-sub-star players either know what they are or will ultimately be willing to accept what the market tells them. Also those are exactly the sort of players that tend to get overpaid by other teams to steal them away. So teams may screw up their own future cap situations by doing it, but several of those players may get paid anyway.
Also there's such a big gap between the 215k max and the 'over half a million' they're saying top players could earn. Which means a lot of it's going to come down to currently unspecified extra stuff. If it turns out that the stars are still being offered enough money to take them overseas in the offseason, maybe a solid chunk of that extra cash is sitting there for those second-level players to take in, all while staying home in the winter. |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/15/20 11:09 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
So if rookie contracts remain roughly the same -- four years at a lower rate than veterans, conceivably much lower -- and contracts for the top players increase in value, it's pretty clear who will get squeezed: Bench players in their fifth year and above.
This has happened before in other leagues, and I'm curious to see how it works in the WNBA, but at this point, it looks pretty clear: The bottom four (or five or maybe even six) spots on any roster will be for those on their rookie contracts. The top three players will make a lot more. The losers will be the veterans who bring a little more to the table than the rookies, but at a significantly higher price -- unless they agree to play for close to the same amount of money the rookies get. |
Which is a big part of why Engelbert has tried to make it clear in the last couple of days that 'everybody gets more'. If the genuine stars on 215k now, do you care if your likely wage just went from 118k to 130k? There might be some envy in places, but I think most slightly-sub-star players either know what they are or will ultimately be willing to accept what the market tells them. Also those are exactly the sort of players that tend to get overpaid by other teams to steal them away. So teams may screw up their own future cap situations by doing it, but several of those players may get paid anyway.
Also there's such a big gap between the 215k max and the 'over half a million' they're saying top players could earn. Which means a lot of it's going to come down to currently unspecified extra stuff. If it turns out that the stars are still being offered enough money to take them overseas in the offseason, maybe a solid chunk of that extra cash is sitting there for those second-level players to take in, all while staying home in the winter. |
I like that line of thinking ...
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 01/15/20 11:53 am ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Cabbage going awf on her IG daily story ....I wish posting photos were easy like back in the day. She’s pretty much saying this 500k is BS and it will only go to the Top 1% player per year. They were already making 6 figures so jumping from 100k to 215K is not much at all from her “Can’t pay rent” standpoint...... |
Are her 15 minutes up yet?
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/15/20 12:55 pm ::: |
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| bullsky wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Cabbage going awf on her IG daily story ....I wish posting photos were easy like back in the day. She’s pretty much saying this 500k is BS and it will only go to the Top 1% player per year. They were already making 6 figures so jumping from 100k to 215K is not much at all from her “Can’t pay rent” standpoint...... |
Are her 15 minutes up yet? |
I wish they had a clause in the new CBA that banned the import of Cabbage from Australia.....I am so tired of her.
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Force10rulz
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 1966
Location: Puget Sound
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| Posted: 01/15/20 2:05 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
To be pedantic, the days of $15 league pass were already behind us anyway.
Last year it was $16.99, which was still an absolute steal |
We’re not getting league pass this year as last year all the Storm games were on tv.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 01/15/20 2:18 pm ::: |
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Forgive me, but may I ask:
What is the increase in annual overall payout by the league, and how is it to be funded?
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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sportsfan48
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/15/20 11:30 pm ::: |
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I received this email today from the Mercury:
| Quote: |
Valued PayPal X-Factor Member,
I’m excited to report, as you may have seen, that the WNBA and WNBA Players Association have come to terms on the framework of a new Collective Bargaining Agreement that will continue to push the business and basketball of our league forward. As a former president once said, “better is good.” And this new deal is designed to reach our collective goals of creating a better experience for players and better business opportunities for teams—both of which can and will create a better experience for fans long term.
Among a host of changes, the most exciting CBA change that will have the most immediate impact on you is the regular season moving from 34 games to 36 games. This is an important step in our quest to continue to expand the footprint of women’s basketball beyond just the summer (albeit two games at a time) and to grow revenue streams to be shared by players and teams. A 36-game season means a 19-game season ticket membership (18 regular season, one preseason).
Some information about the “19th Game” (18th regular season home game) – we are calling it The Movement Game, and it will be the final home game before the Olympic Break. The choice to add a game recognizes this moment of great growth in women’s sports, and supports the movement to recognize, uplift and compensate women athletes – a new game is, quite literally, for the movement. But we will not be charging you for this game without your permission. You will receive an email giving you the option to opt-in to The Movement Game (if you’re on a payment plan) which will add it to your May 15th payment. Or, if you’ve paid in full already, your email will notify you that the additional game and account balance have been updated on your Account Manager. In either case, March 1 will be the opt-in deadline. Moving forward, membership renewals for the 2021 season will be for 19-game plans.
Now, perhaps more than ever, our organization recognizes that we are in this movement together with our fans because we share the same passion and the same goals for the growth of our game and our league.
We appreciate your support – and we look forward to an unforgettable 2020 Mercury season.
Vince Kozar
Chief Operating Officer
Phoenix Mercury
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I don't know if it answers all the questions but does provide some insight.
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