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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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 Posted: 01/13/20 1:56 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| I don't see Arike working out as a full time PG. Just shouldn't happen. |
I swear, Jefferson must be the most forgettable PG on the planet. There’s no need for Ogunbowale to convert to a PG. The only reason they put her there last year was because both Jefferson and Diggins were out, and they wanted their best players on the court together. Obviously they didn’t get great results unless you’re a draft junkie and you think getting the #2 pick was a great result.
Yes, Dallas is invested in Jefferson. Remember it and accept it. |
Just a matter if Jefferson is invested in Dallas. Let's see if she's in a Wings uniform this season. |
This is where she's from.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 01/13/20 2:03 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| I don't see Arike working out as a full time PG. Just shouldn't happen. |
I swear, Jefferson must be the most forgettable PG on the planet. There’s no need for Ogunbowale to convert to a PG. The only reason they put her there last year was because both Jefferson and Diggins were out, and they wanted their best players on the court together. Obviously they didn’t get great results unless you’re a draft junkie and you think getting the #2 pick was a great result.
Yes, Dallas is invested in Jefferson. Remember it and accept it. |
Just a matter if Jefferson is invested in Dallas. Let's see if she's in a Wings uniform this season. |
Toad , you will see her in a Wings uniform this season not sure why thats up for debate ....
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 01/13/20 3:26 pm ::: |
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| Long time Lynx assistant Shelley Patterson is joining Hopkins in Brooklyn. Wonder who his other assistant(s) will be? Tanisha Wright seems obvious.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/13/20 3:51 pm ::: |
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| Wright already has a job as an assistant for a college team. Might she be better off in the long run trying to move up the college ranks - seems like they pay better.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/13/20 3:56 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Long time Lynx assistant Shelley Patterson is joining Hopkins in Brooklyn. Wonder who his other assistant(s) will be? Tanisha Wright seems obvious. |
Wow, Patterson leaving the Lynx is a surprise! I wonder which slot she's filling: defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator or pulse of the team (POTT).
I get why everybody thinks Wright is an "obvious" choice, but I'm not convinced she has the right personality to be the POTT coach. Tanisha always seems to have a scowl on her face, and you see her yelling at teammates. That may pass for leadership on the court, but off the court it's liable to scare people away. I think the POTT coach should be someone approachable -- a sympathetic person, a good listener, someone who inspires trust. If Swin Cash were still here, she'd be perfect. Swin always seemed friendly and upbeat in the team videos I saw. She's someone who could be a confidante. Wright on the other hand, strikes me as someone who will tell you to suck it up and stop whining. Just what a young player needs to hear when she's unsure of herself.  If people are looking for ex-Liberty players, maybe Essence Carson is a possibility if she's ready to hang up her sneakers. Or perhaps Kia Vaughn who always seemed well-liked by teammates. More likely Hopkins already has someone in mind not related to the Liberty. Any news on the status of Rebecca Brunson?
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 01/13/20 4:39 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| If people are looking for ex-Liberty players |
Obviously it’s not about being a Liberty player. They don’t exactly have a history of knowing how to win. If you look at the recent WNBA assistants being hired, they’re coming from winning franchises. Of course, Reeve had to buck the trend. With Tanisha Wright, it’s about whether or not she shows the knack. As stated before, it’s been observed that the players pay attention whenever Wright spoke in the timeout huddles. That shows respect. That can be hard to earn. What more do you need to see?
| root_thing wrote: |
| Any news on the status of Rebecca Brunson? |
As an assistant? Not sure she has shown the knack or desire. If she does, it sounds like Reeve has an opening.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/13/20 4:56 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| If people are looking for ex-Liberty players |
Obviously it’s not about being a Liberty player. They don’t exactly have a history of knowing how to win. If you look at the recent WNBA assistants being hired, they’re coming from winning franchises. Of course, Reeve had to buck the trend. With Tanisha Wright, it’s about whether or not she shows the knack. As stated before, it’s been observed that the players pay attention whenever Wright spoke in the timeout huddles. That shows respect. That can be hard to earn. What more do you need to see? |
You're wrong. Ex-Liberty players are always among the first people suggested for coaching spots on this thread. I'm not talking about management, I'm talking about fans. It's been true for years.
As for the Wright discussion, I was specifically talking about the pulse of the team coach. I explained clearly why I didn't think Tanisha was a good fit. It isn't only about respect. It's about players being willing to tell you things that they may not be comfortable telling Hopkins or the other coaches. The fact that you respect somebody for their basketball knowledge or even their integrity doesn't mean that you think they'll understand you or listen to you in return.
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Shades
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| Posted: 01/13/20 5:31 pm ::: |
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Oh, I was talking about real life. I think TWright is a real non-homer possibility as an assistant in the WNBA, but it sounds like she already has another job. No surprise.
I dunno, Root. I think you’re way overthinking the “pulse” thing. If they can get a third coach that knows basketball, is respected by the players, and is willing to work for them, it seems like a no-brainer to me. There’s plenty of other staff that can cover whatever this thing is you think the players need.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/13/20 10:19 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
I dunno, Root. I think you’re way overthinking the “pulse” thing. If they can get a third coach that knows basketball, is respected by the players, and is willing to work for them, it seems like a no-brainer to me. There’s plenty of other staff that can cover whatever this thing is you think the players need. |
It's not my idea. I'm not a touchy-feely kind of guy. I'd be fine with Drill Sergeant Wright. It's Hopkins who came up with the phrase "pulse of the team" for his third coach. What else can it mean? I'm not saying that the person won't also do regular coaching duties, but based on the description -- Hopkins constantly talks about a culture where people communicate and care about each other -- it leads me to believe this person will have special responsibilities as a sounding board for the players.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 01/14/20 9:54 am ::: |
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| Good players, even those who know the game, are not necessarily good coaches, especially assistant coaches. To be an assistant coach, you have to set aside your ego on a regular basis as there are many different paths to success and it's unlikely the head coach will travel all, or even many, of the ones you'd like to go down.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 01/14/20 10:27 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| Good players, even those who know the game, are not necessarily good coaches, especially assistant coaches. To be an assistant coach, you have to set aside your ego on a regular basis as there are many different paths to success and it's unlikely the head coach will travel all, or even many, of the ones you'd like to go down. |
Cynthia Cooper is the perfect example of this. One of the best players ever, but hasn't exactly been a good coach.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 01/14/20 9:32 pm ::: |
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Trying to be objective here as a person who can be overly optimistic. Let's assume no free agent additions or trades. Let me put this out there as our lineup and you guys have at it with what you think the improvement of the team will be record-wise.
Ionescu/Boyd (if not dealt)/Hartley (I'm assuming a return as she is from NY and NY could use her in a reserve role)
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Tina/Zahui/(Gray or Nayo)
Stokes/Han
#13 (If 2 of the 3 of Gray/Nayo/Boyd do not return)
To me, not only does Ionescu change the nature of the team from a passing perspective, but she commands the defensive attention that Boyd didn't in all areas of the court. Particularly outside of 15 feet. Which should make it easier for Durr, Nurse or Tina to get good looks depending on how defenses adjust.
So....assuming a well-coached, properly structured but young team...how many wins do you think? I'd have to look it up again but if I remember correctly the addition of Bird meant somewhere between 6-8 additional wins for Seattle. Adding DT meant a similar increase for Phoenix.
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Bob Lamm
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ucbart
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 01/14/20 10:59 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| Am I missing something with Ionescu in the W? She is a GREEEEEATTTT college player, but I just don't see her as that much of a game changer. She's not the fastest player, nor is she the biggest player, but she is smart with food fundamentals. I just think the transition might be hard for her, especially on defense. |
Harsh. You make it sound like her ceiling is only someone like Taurasi
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Shades
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| Posted: 01/15/20 12:31 am ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| Am I missing something with Ionescu in the W? |
You must be.
| ucbart wrote: |
| She is a GREEEEEATTTT college player, but I just don't see her as that much of a game changer. |
If she’s not, I’m not sure who would be.
| ucbart wrote: |
| She's not the fastest player, nor is she the biggest player, but she is smart with food fundamentals. |
Food is the most important thing. You are what you eat. She must eat a lot of hero sandwiches.
| ucbart wrote: |
| I just think the transition might be hard for her, especially on defense. |
We’ll see what happens. Hopefully Kolb and the other GM’s with high picks are hanging on your every word, and Ionescu ends up dropping down to #6.
| ucbart wrote: |
| I mean, can you imagine her having much success while being guarded by Jasmine Thomas and Natasha Cloud.....and having to guard them? |
She did pretty well against Team USA. No imagination needed.
Let’s see what Sue Bird says about her after Oregon beat Team USA.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/s8uPusg9mL0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/15/20 12:47 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Trying to be objective here as a person who can be overly optimistic. Let's assume no free agent additions or trades. Let me put this out there as our lineup and you guys have at it with what you think the improvement of the team will be record-wise.
Ionescu/Boyd (if not dealt)/Hartley (I'm assuming a return as she is from NY and NY could use her in a reserve role)
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Tina/Zahui/(Gray or Nayo)
Stokes/Han
#13 (If 2 of the 3 of Gray/Nayo/Boyd do not return)
To me, not only does Ionescu change the nature of the team from a passing perspective, but she commands the defensive attention that Boyd didn't in all areas of the court. Particularly outside of 15 feet. Which should make it easier for Durr, Nurse or Tina to get good looks depending on how defenses adjust.
So....assuming a well-coached, properly structured but young team...how many wins do you think? I'd have to look it up again but if I remember correctly the addition of Bird meant somewhere between 6-8 additional wins for Seattle. Adding DT meant a similar increase for Phoenix. |
I'm going to give you the copout answer that there are too many variables to assess properly:
1) A lot of us biased Liberty fans feel the team underperformed their talent last season. How many wins do you add back for that (if any)?
2) We hired a new coach who has no track record. Hopkins sounds good on paper, but it's all speculation. Most of us never even heard of the guy before his name came up three weeks ago.
3) Even if Hopkins is better than Smith, there is still the problem of a team trying to learn new systems within a 2-3 week training camp while many of their best players arrive late. In other words, expect the Liberty to be bad early in the season.
4) It's an Olympic year. As we've discussed previously, the Liberty have more players than any other team who may need to leave for national team duty. On the other hand, maybe they get lucky and it's kept to a minimum. Who knows? My guess is that Johannes, Han, and Raincock will miss all games before the Olympic break.
5) I know you firmly believe that PG is Ionescu's natural position. Nonetheless, there will be a transition required because she's used to having a true PG play beside her. This has all kinds of implications in terms of how the team functions, including how much they run.
The comparisons to Bird and Taurasi also have complications. Seattle improved from 10-22 to 17-15, but that was a different era of low scoring basketball. The Storm held opponents to 65.7 ppg in 2002. I guarantee you the Liberty won't come close to that. As for Taurasi, Phoenix improved from 8-26 to 17-17. However, they didn't only add Diana, the Mercury also added Penny Taylor via the dispersal draft when Cleveland folded. That's a 13.2 ppg scorer who shot an uber-efficient .484/.427/.861. Phoenix also changed coaches from John Shumate to Carrie Graf.
I can't give you a good, logical prediction. However, if I go with my gut, like Bob I feel New York will be around a .500 team.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 01/15/20 3:30 am ::: |
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In terms of projecting Ionescu's ultimate career-spanning impact, compared to other guards picked #1, I'd put her a couple steps below Taurasi, a step below Bird, but several steps above Harding, Loyd, Plum, and Jackie Young. Probably juuuust above Augustus. She'll definitely be turnover-prone particularly for the first few years but she'll rack up a ton of assists from the get-go no matter which backcourt spot she starts at. I don't see her 2-point shooting numbers starting off great since, like virtually all guards coming into the league, she’ll have to figure out how she can regularly get to & finish at the rim. But she should always be able to hit her 3's at an above-average rate; her range and consistency from deep has always been there. And she’s got a brain on her as we well know, so she’ll in time figure out how to adjust; she’ll be fine.
As for how the Liberty will do this season, I'd really like to see even the first week of free agency before making any kind of predictions. If McCoughtry does end up leaving Atlanta, for example, then that move on its own will definitely create a ripple effect across the league. Not to mention this roster itself appears to be more on the fluid side compared to other teams, though maybe Hopkins at least for this year brings back most of everyone like some people think.
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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/15/20 11:51 am ::: |
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https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28487129/why-oregon-sabrina-ionescu-good-where-grow
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Ionescu, who has an NCAA-record 22 triple-doubles in her college career, is focused on trying to lead the sixth-ranked Ducks -- who host No. 3 Stanford on Thursday (ESPN/ESPN App, 9 p.m. ET) -- back to the Women's Final Four. But what makes her so good, and what will make her so valuable at the next level?
We asked Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi, two of the best guards in the world, Oregon coach Kelly Graves and WNBA scouts. |
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stever
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/15/20 4:41 pm ::: |
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stever, great stuff -- thanks for posting.
The podcast is dated January 14th (yesterday), but at the time the interview was taking place the CBA had not been announced. Also, a question about Shelley Patterson drew a long silence. It was so long that I thought the interview had been cut off. Hopkins danced around the question saying he'd love to have Patterson but that nothing had happened. So, either the interview actually took place earlier than yesterday or Patterson has not accepted an offer yet.
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Randy
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| Posted: 01/15/20 4:50 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
stever, great stuff -- thanks for posting.
The podcast is dated January 14th (yesterday), but at the time the interview was taking place the CBA had not been announced. Also, a question about Shelley Patterson drew a long silence. It was so long that I thought the interview had been cut off. Hopkins danced around the question saying he'd love to have Patterson but that nothing had happened. So, either the interview actually took place earlier than yesterday or Patterson has not accepted an offer yet. |
I was wondering if the Patterson story had been confirmed. Apparently not yet.
Maybe the Lynx are tired of the AC staff being raided, so they made Patterson a big offer.
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 01/15/20 5:32 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
I was wondering if the Patterson story had been confirmed. Apparently not yet.
Maybe the Lynx are tired of the AC staff being raided, so they made Patterson a big offer. |
It'd also be someone moving teams from being an assistant to still being an assistant. The general rule in US sport seems to be that if a coach is being offered a promotion (i.e. an assistant becoming a head coach) then they're allowed to go without much argument. Not always the case, but that seems to be what usually happens. If Patterson's under contract then maybe the Lynx weren't willing to let her just walk away for a job that appears to be basically the same as the one she already has. |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/15/20 6:10 pm ::: |
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Apparently Hopkins did another interview yesterday in his home state of Nevada. So, either he called into the Winsidr Show or these dates are simply when the interviews were posted, not when they took place.
As in previous interviews, Hopkins reiterates that playing at Barclays Center wasn't an important factor in his decision. More surprisingly, he claims that having the #1 pick wasn't important either. Walt keeps hammering home that he really likes the people in the organization and the talent already on the roster.
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Shades
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| Posted: 01/15/20 6:50 pm ::: |
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| stever wrote: |
https://share.transistor.fm/s/7941db28
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Hopkins talked about three players he was excited to be working with. He was quite long-winded and effusive about Johannes. I’ll transcribe the conversation here.
Kia Nurse
“Kia Nurse is already at an All Star level. There are small adjustments we can make with her that could make a big difference.”
Marine Johannes
“Marine is one of the most talented players in the league right now that we really haven’t gotten a chance to see her shine and really show everybody what she’s capable of. But as I went through and I studied the team and I watched Marine, I was absolutely floored by the potential there. She can really do things I don’t really know for sure if I’ve ever been around a player who has that natural level of that she has that swagger to her. She can make a jump shot from anywhere inside half court... off the dribble, set. She passes at an unbelievable high level. She’s got great size.”
Asia Durr
“We haven’t gotten a full season out of healthy Asia Durr. Jonathan speaks so highly of her and really has gotten more of a chance to look at her than I have. I haven’t gotten a chance to see Asia on the practice court and things like that. Really excited about her. I watched her a lot in college at Louisville. She’s one of my favorite players out of that draft.”
So it sounds like Hopkins looked at the Liberty film of Johannes but didn’t do the same with Durr because he said “he didn’t get a chance to see her.” Hmmm. To me it sounds like Hopkins is totally open to making Johannes a starter, unless I’m misunderstanding terms like “one of the most talented players in the league right now“ and “absolutely floored by the potential there”.
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But obviously getting her is a big plus. I view the return of Stokes as valuable. In 2019 Gray and Raincock-Ekunwe together played 28.4 minutes per game. I like the thought of Stokes getting more than 20 of those minutes. Finally... though I hate to say this... part of New York being an awful 7-27 then 10-24 was Katie Smith. The rosters weren't good, but still the Liberty shouldn't have been that dreadful.