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root_thing
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 Posted: 01/09/20 5:52 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
Figured I'd post this here and seek advice. I promised myself if the Liberty end up in Brooklyn, I will be purchasing season tickets.
Here's the problem. I've emailed the general email they've been promoting TWICE and have had zero response. I also wrote on an Instagram post that I was trying to get in touch to buy tickets...and no response.
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in this Liberty front office. Any suggestions? Should I keep trying? Are they simply getting their house in order? I'm offering $$ to support my local WNBA franchise. Please help me support your business, yikes.
(and p.s. very excited about the move to Barclays, the potential with Ionescu, and the new coach...) |
I suspect the problem is more the website than the reps. Also, I believe they are in the process of moving. The 914 number is Westchester. The reps now have 718 numbers. Here is a link to a page with all their direct numbers and email:
https://liberty.wnba.com/meet-the-liberty-sales-staff/
My rep is Justine Crespo. She's new to me, but so far Justine has been pretty responsive. Saturday, January 18th, is the select-your-seat event where you go to Barclay's and "test drive" your seat. They will ask you for a $100 deposit to be on the official STH list of people who get first crack.
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root_thing
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toad455
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| Posted: 01/09/20 6:04 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
root_thing wrote:
| Quote: |
| Unfortunately, you can't count on Marine to show up every year. The Liberty are particularly vulnerable to absences because they have six foreign players plus two Americans who play on foreign national teams. That's a roster balance issue that needs to be addressed, but lets save that for a separate discussion. |
Seems like a good time to discuss it to me - and what better place than here - the NY Liberty 2020 thread? So I'd pose these questions to NY fans: Can you afford the potential disruption that comes with 8 players with foreign entanglements on your team? How many should be kept and which ones? |
Our USA team members are least likely to skip a season. No loss if Han and Raincock skip a season. Hartley's our veteran guard now, so I wonder if she skips part of a season again. Zahui B & Johannes are our most valuable members that would hurt the team if they miss an entire season. Stokes missed last season and I doubt she would have made a difference if she showed up.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/09/20 6:53 pm ::: |
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| Love the move. The recognition with regard to Tina’s efficiency is significant. It also sounds like we will see a lot of stuff geared to Sabrina’s skill set. Having another player to draw defensive help should also open things up for Durr, Tina and Nurse. To me this group should be a .500 team at minimum even without any other significant additions. And honestly I expect more.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 01/09/20 11:19 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
root_thing wrote:
| Quote: |
| Unfortunately, you can't count on Marine to show up every year. The Liberty are particularly vulnerable to absences because they have six foreign players plus two Americans who play on foreign national teams. That's a roster balance issue that needs to be addressed, but lets save that for a separate discussion. |
Seems like a good time to discuss it to me - and what better place than here - the NY Liberty 2020 thread? So I'd pose these questions to NY fans: Can you afford the potential disruption that comes with 8 players with foreign entanglements on your team? How many should be kept and which ones? |
Our USA team members are least likely to skip a season. No loss if Han and Raincock skip a season. Hartley's our veteran guard now, so I wonder if she skips part of a season again. Zahui B & Johannes are our most valuable members that would hurt the team if they miss an entire season. Stokes missed last season and I doubt she would have made a difference if she showed up. |
My predictions based on nothing but a feeling from most missed games to fewest
Han and Johannes best case show after the Olympics worst case show in 2021
Hartley and Stokes are both being paid more by the National teams they have committed to than the Liberty so they miss a decent chunk of games prior to the Olympics for camps and pre Olympic practices (lets say about 8 to 10) but do show for some of the season before and after the Olympics (obviously Stokes show if Turkey doesn't qualify).
Zahui B not sure if Sweden makes the final cut, if they do I put her in the best case misses 8-10 games before the Olympics worse case doesn't show until after the Olympics
Nurse and Allen leave a week or two early before the Olympics to get in reps with their National teams miss 3 to 6 games
Raincock-Ekunwe in the past missed the entire W season for team Canada but this time around will probably do what Nurse does or (I like Nayo) Raincock-Ekunwe gets cut prior to the start of the season and therefor it doesn't matter.
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 01/09/20 11:52 pm ::: |
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| Stokes isn't going to the Olympics, Turkey didn't even make it through the group stage at EuroBasket. |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/10/20 1:44 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
Our USA team members are least likely to skip a season. No loss if Han and Raincock skip a season. Hartley's our veteran guard now, so I wonder if she skips part of a season again. Zahui B & Johannes are our most valuable members that would hurt the team if they miss an entire season. Stokes missed last season and I doubt she would have made a difference if she showed up. |
My predictions based on nothing but a feeling from most missed games to fewest
Han and Johannes best case show after the Olympics worst case show in 2021
Hartley and Stokes are both being paid more by the National teams they have committed to than the Liberty so they miss a decent chunk of games prior to the Olympics for camps and pre Olympic practices (lets say about 8 to 10) but do show for some of the season before and after the Olympics (obviously Stokes show if Turkey doesn't qualify).
Zahui B not sure if Sweden makes the final cut, if they do I put her in the best case misses 8-10 games before the Olympics worse case doesn't show until after the Olympics
Nurse and Allen leave a week or two early before the Olympics to get in reps with their National teams miss 3 to 6 games
Raincock-Ekunwe in the past missed the entire W season for team Canada but this time around will probably do what Nurse does or (I like Nayo) Raincock-Ekunwe gets cut prior to the start of the season and therefor it doesn't matter. |
Even under your most optimistic scenario, the Liberty will be without Nurse, Allen, Hartley, Johannes, and Han for three games. That's five players missing -- four on the perimeter, including both small forwards. And that assumes a 100% healthy team. For Liberty fans, your best hope is that Nurse and Allen miss zero games. The WNBA will probably shutdown early enough so that Team USA gets a couple of weeks of practice. In theory, Nurse and Allen can push for the same schedule. Kia is important enough to Team Canada so that she can probably get away with waiting -- if she chooses. Sandy Brondello is likely to coach the Mercury until the break, so maybe she'll give her Australian WNBA players the option to stay with their teams. Allen was a starter in the last two tournaments, so she probably doesn't need to worry about making the Opals. Consequently, staying with the Liberty shouldn't hurt her.
People need to remember that the absences don't simply stop after this season. Some years will be worse than others, but it's a perpetual problem that requires management to plan very carefully. For instance, how big of a role do you want to give Johannes and Han if they miss most or all of the season every other year? Are you prepared to play with a slew of replacement level players (Avery Warley-Talbert, Tiffany Bias, etc.) for long stretches every year? Again, we're not even taking into consideration injuries which would require even more replacement players.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 01/10/20 2:05 am ::: |
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If my assumptions are close to correct and you are right about Nurse and Allen sticking around to the break, if we stay healthy this should be the while players are missing rotation
Ionescu/Boyd
Durr
Nurse/Allen
Charles/R. Gray
Stokes/
I think Boyd probably sticks around this season, if she has a previous relationship with the new coach from her Cal days and Johannes and Hartley miss a bunch of games there will be monutes for her
R. Gray (also has worked with the new coach in the past) and pick #13 will probably get some minutes, #13 should probably be a post, I know you're a fan of Herbert-Harrigan we she be a good pick for us at 13?
If Raincock-Ekunwe is still with the team and goes the same route as Nurse that is another rotational player
so we will miss the players who miss time we have some pretty close in house options before we have to start fishing for more place holding options
full strength
Ionescu/Boyd/Hartley
Durr/Johannes
Nurse/Allen
Charles/R. Gray/#13 or Raincock-Ekunwe or Han (at center instead)
Zahui B/Stokes
some of those players are very replaceable and I could see Han skipping this season but I can see the Liberty sticking with a lot of last years roster even with a new coach. The addition of Ionescu and return of Stokes make the team look a lot deeper if Durr and Nursee develop and the new coach installs a systen that compliments the teams skills I could see this team with little turnover being a much more competitive team. Would still like a bigger/stronger center and a bigger 3 and D wing but simply pushing some of the players further back in the depth chart makes them look a lot better.
I can also see this coach experimenting with a small ball line up of Ionescu, Durr, Nurse, Allen and Charles that will be defensively challenged but that will have great spacing and a lot of options for Charles going in from the high post one on one against larger/slower players with shooters all over the perimeter.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 01/10/20 3:47 am ::: |
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So this is a hypothetical just for discussion and not too serious
My gut says fans of both teams will hate this trade idea (which is often the sign that it isn't that bad of a trade idea)
the idea is based on Hopkins resume points put up by BlueDevil, the idea that one of these players wants off their current team and a question I have been wrestling with "is there anything out there that NY would trade the #1 pick for?"
Diggins-Smith and #2 (Cox, Sallaby or Carter) for #1 Ionescu
(NY could probably throw in an additional something if it seems too lopsided, I originally was going to say Diggins and #9 but I wanted to up the ante for the sake of discussion and IMO Dallas can afford to over pay if they think Ionescu/Ogunbowale will be the core of a there team for the next decade, assuming Agler is crazy for Ionescu and they want another potential box office draw superstar to offset the recent loss of Diggins-Smith/Cambage. Dallas also still has plenty of good players Gray, Jefferson, Johnson, Stevens, Thorton, Harrison, Anigwe, #9 pick to build around Ionescu and Ogunbowlae. NY on the other hand would be getting an all-star guard to basically drop one spot in the draft).
So do you do it?
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/10/20 5:38 am ::: |
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| Nope. Ionescu gives you one-of-a-kind leadership and work ethic in a top young player. Dallas needs Cox anyway.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/10/20 5:49 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
Our USA team members are least likely to skip a season. No loss if Han and Raincock skip a season. Hartley's our veteran guard now, so I wonder if she skips part of a season again. Zahui B & Johannes are our most valuable members that would hurt the team if they miss an entire season. Stokes missed last season and I doubt she would have made a difference if she showed up. |
My predictions based on nothing but a feeling from most missed games to fewest
Han and Johannes best case show after the Olympics worst case show in 2021
Hartley and Stokes are both being paid more by the National teams they have committed to than the Liberty so they miss a decent chunk of games prior to the Olympics for camps and pre Olympic practices (lets say about 8 to 10) but do show for some of the season before and after the Olympics (obviously Stokes show if Turkey doesn't qualify).
Zahui B not sure if Sweden makes the final cut, if they do I put her in the best case misses 8-10 games before the Olympics worse case doesn't show until after the Olympics
Nurse and Allen leave a week or two early before the Olympics to get in reps with their National teams miss 3 to 6 games
Raincock-Ekunwe in the past missed the entire W season for team Canada but this time around will probably do what Nurse does or (I like Nayo) Raincock-Ekunwe gets cut prior to the start of the season and therefor it doesn't matter. |
Even under your most optimistic scenario, the Liberty will be without Nurse, Allen, Hartley, Johannes, and Han for three games. That's five players missing -- four on the perimeter, including both small forwards. And that assumes a 100% healthy team. For Liberty fans, your best hope is that Nurse and Allen miss zero games. The WNBA will probably shutdown early enough so that Team USA gets a couple of weeks of practice. In theory, Nurse and Allen can push for the same schedule. Kia is important enough to Team Canada so that she can probably get away with waiting -- if she chooses. Sandy Brondello is likely to coach the Mercury until the break, so maybe she'll give her Australian WNBA players the option to stay with their teams. Allen was a starter in the last two tournaments, so she probably doesn't need to worry about making the Opals. Consequently, staying with the Liberty shouldn't hurt her.
People need to remember that the absences don't simply stop after this season. Some years will be worse than others, but it's a perpetual problem that requires management to plan very carefully. For instance, how big of a role do you want to give Johannes and Han if they miss most or all of the season every other year? Are you prepared to play with a slew of replacement level players (Avery Warley-Talbert, Tiffany Bias, etc.) for long stretches every year? Again, we're not even taking into consideration injuries which would require even more replacement players. |
Losing Nurse and Allen for 3 games or so at the same time is a huge loss. I feel like for the most part I remember Olympic shutdowns being timely enough that generally teams' core players wouldn't miss that much time but I could be mistaken as I don't remember for sure. And from a long-term standpoint, there's no doubt that we have to figure something out because you can't be rotating this many players in and out of the lineup every year, even if it works out in a best-case scenario for 2020.
Ionescu's presence will help compared to last year at least from the standpoint that we don't have to worry about PG instability as compared to last year. I think we need some depth in the middle even if nobody was heading overseas...so we certainly need it with the possibility of some losses. If we can add that via trade or FA, then we'd only need SF depth to be pretty solvent for 2020. A TRP type of player is what the Libs could really use, but there's not many of those types who just happen to be available. If a Copper or Stricklen becomes available due to those teams being in a numbers crunch, those are two legit SF-sized players who would provide some depth.
I do think in emergency situations Ionescu can guard SFs due to her physical size, which I was pleasantly surprised with in the team USA game, but how many roles do we realistically want to ask the rookie to perform?
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 01/10/20 10:07 am ::: |
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Based on the dates I've been hearing, the WNBA would shut down about two weeks before the Olympics begin. So this year the level of missed games would depend on whether players consider that to be enough (assuming they show up for the first half of the season at all).
Of course, for another month there's also the fact that no one has qualified apart from Japan and the US. Although given the OQT draw it's pretty safe to assume that, for example, France and Australia will be there. |
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/10/20 11:10 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Nope. Ionescu gives you one-of-a-kind leadership and work ethic in a top young player. Dallas needs Cox anyway. |
Yes. Not trading Ionescu.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/10/20 11:48 am ::: |
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| Thanks to J-Spoon and root_thing for the detailed discussion above about likely player absences this season. And obviously root_thing is correct that this will be a continuing problem in years to come. Suppose, for example, that Ionescu signs with a foreign team and she has schedule conflicts in the future.
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Lib Fan
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| Posted: 01/10/20 12:09 pm ::: |
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Yes in recent years it has become a major problem for the WNBA
Even if it is not an Olympic year...the overseas leagues now end
later and affect the start of the WNBA season ...sometimes I think
they do it on spite
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Shades
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| Posted: 01/10/20 1:22 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Suppose, for example, that Ionescu signs with a foreign team and she has schedule conflicts in the future. |
She can’t play for a foreign national team if she wants to play for Team USA.
Not sure of your angle here. The Liberty have a lot players who are with foreign national teams and may have to be available for qualifying tournaments, but Ionescu won’t be one of them.
All this might be a deterrent to drafting Sabally. She might be worth it though.
If you feel you have “too many foreign national team members” (all teams have to deal with this), instead of worrying about the worthy players, start to weed out the marginal ones: Boyd, Hartley, Raincock, Han?
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/10/20 2:26 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Suppose, for example, that Ionescu signs with a foreign team and she has schedule conflicts in the future. |
She can’t play for a foreign national team if she wants to play for Team USA.
Not sure of your angle here. The Liberty have a lot players who are with foreign national teams and may have to be available for qualifying tournaments, but Ionescu won’t be one of them.
All this might be a deterrent to drafting Sabally. She might be worth it though.
If you feel you have “too many foreign national team members” (all teams have to deal with this), instead of worrying about the worthy players, start to weed out the marginal ones: Boyd, Hartley, Raincock, Han? |
Of course she can't play for Team USA in 2020 AND play for a foreign national team. I was writing about the long-term future, the issue raised by root_thing and others.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/10/20 4:21 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
If you feel you have “too many foreign national team members” (all teams have to deal with this), instead of worrying about the worthy players, start to weed out the marginal ones: Boyd, Hartley, Raincock, Han? |
No other franchise has eight players at risk of leaving for national team duty. That's two-thirds of the roster. My point is this situation can no longer be ignored. The weeding out process actually starts with deciding who are your core players. Who do you definitely want now and in the future? Everybody else is replaceable. Among this foreign group, the only clear core player is Nurse. She probably won't be much of a problem because Kia appears committed to the WNBA. She also doesn't seem like a risk to miss many games. The two players who require attention are Johannes and Han. Management seems really high on both, but are they going to be here enough to build around? Kolb and Hopkins have to figure out if these two players want to be with the Liberty as much as the team wants them. Here's how I view the roster at the moment:
Core
Charles, Nurse, Durr, (Ionescu)
High potential, absence risk
Johannes, Han
Role player
Zahui, Allen, Stokes
Expendable
Hartley, Boyd, Raincock, Gray
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/10/20 5:02 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
No other franchise has eight players at risk of leaving for national team duty. That's two-thirds of the roster. My point is this situation can no longer be ignored. The weeding out process actually starts with deciding who are your core players. Who do you definitely want now and in the future? Everybody else is replaceable. Among this foreign group, the only clear core player is Nurse. She probably won't be much of a problem because Kia appears committed to the WNBA. She also doesn't seem like a risk to miss many games. The two players who require attention are Johannes and Han. Management seems really high on both, but are they going to be here enough to build around? Kolb and Hopkins have to figure out if these two players want to be with the Liberty as much as the team wants them. Here's how I view the roster at the moment:
Core
Charles, Nurse, Durr, (Ionescu)
High potential, absence risk
Johannes, Han
Role player
Zahui, Allen, Stokes
Expendable
Hartley, Boyd, Raincock, Gray |
This analysis seems on the mark. The four categories make absolute sense.
Imagine the possible Liberty roster for 2021. I'd definitely expect the four core players--Charles, Nurse, Durr, and Ionescu--all to be there. Johannes and Han? Maybe, maybe not. Zahui, Allen, Stokes? Maybe, maybe not. Hartley, Boyd, Raincock, Gray? I'd be surprised if any are on the 2021 roster.
GM in his second season with the team. Coach in his first season with the team. One of their goals for the season has to be to decide if they should stick with your "high potential, absence risk" players and your "role players" or go in other directions. And the calculation of actual player availability due to foreign commitments--short-term and long-term--has to be part of that evaluation process.
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toad455
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| Posted: 01/10/20 5:59 pm ::: |
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| I think Hartley sticks as our veteran guard. Johannes would be such an asset to have for a full season. Zahui B seems like a long term player to develop more from. Allen & Gray are replaceable. Stokes shouldn't have been re-signed and I hope Boyd is traded and not in a Liberty uniform in 2020. I'd guess and say Raincock skips this season.
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root_thing
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RavenDog
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| Posted: 01/11/20 11:00 am ::: |
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Good situation for Shakespeare that his first year role will be primarily coaching and he doesn't have to worry about the GM duties.
Not a major undertaking really for someone who can lead and coach. All the players are college graduates, and have been playing organized basketball at least since the junior high. Most, if not all, know, are friends with or have played with and/or against each other all over the world, in college and on National teams. There are only 12 players to lead and manage. There are only 30 plus games.
It's not like trying to manage a large or even a small organization with multiple departments and various disciplines. If you can coach and lead, it should be a coffee break comparatively.
Best wishes on a productive season!
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Shades
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| Posted: 01/11/20 12:53 pm ::: |
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I think it’s better than her usual stuff because of the subject. One benefit of that long lead time is that Hopkins was fully prepared and brought an extensive game plan instead of the usual *rah rah, go team* vacantness of a typical new coach press conference. Hopkins gave the press a lot to talk about and that’s what she did.
| Quote: |
| “She works harder than everyone else that I’ve ever been around. [Wade] is kind of the same elk. |
Pretty sure that’s supposed to be *ilk. The keen eye of Megdal.
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| the french native [Johannes] as “one of the most underrated and talented players in this league.” |
Not only was this underrating displayed by Hopkins’ own Lynx, since they never picked her up despite my couple years of urging, it was on display very recently in this thread. Root thinks Johannes should be held back because he’s worried she’ll be unreliable showing up.
What if Thibault would have had that same attitude towards Meesseman? Would she still be on the team? Would she as good as she has become? Would she have become Finals MVP?
It reminds me of the debate I had with a hand-wringing Mystics blogger who was so upset that Meesseman took a season off to work with her national team. He said Thibault should have seen it coming and traded Meesseman at her peak value instead of holding onto her. Well, we all know that turned out. The Mystics won a Championship and Meesseman was a huge part of it.
The thing is if you want a foreign player to become as dedicated to your team as Meesseman has been to the Mystics, you have to show them opportunity and love. You don’t do that by holding them back.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/11/20 1:59 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
Root thinks Johannes should be held back because he’s worried she’ll be unreliable showing up.
What if Thibault would have had that same attitude towards Meesseman? Would she still be on the team? Would she as good as she has become? Would she have become Finals MVP?
It reminds me of the debate I had with a hand-wringing Mystics blogger who was so upset that Meesseman took a season off to work with her national team. He said Thibault should have seen it coming and traded Meesseman at her peak value instead of holding onto her. Well, we all know that turned out. The Mystics won a Championship and Meesseman was a huge part of it.
The thing is if you want a foreign player to become as dedicated to your team as Meesseman has been to the Mystics, you have to show them opportunity and love. You don’t do that by holding them back. |
Meeseman was a completely different situation. Belgium was not a perennial basketball power. At the time you didn't have to worry about her missing games. That's a recent development. Furthermore, Emma showed up right away and made it clear she wanted to be in the WNBA. She was only 20, and she thought this league was the best way to improve her game. Conversely, in Johannes' case, France has been at the top of the European rankings for a long time. You can pretty much count on them being in every tournament. Marine first appeared on the radar for a lot of us during the 2016 Olympics when she had a big 1st half against Team USA. Maybe WNBA teams weren't interested, but it's also possible she wasn't interested in coming over. Marine is 24 now and already a star overseas. It took 3 years before she signed with the league, so I'm wondering how much she wants it. When Johannes finally did sign, she still took half a year off to be with her national team. It's clear where her priorities lie -- at least for the moment. The question is can you change her mind? This is a dialogue -- a two way street. But it's an assessment you have to make. The Liberty have a talented young player at the same position in Asia Durr. So yes, before you send her to the bench in favor of Johannes, you need to ask some questions. We know that management and the fans love Johannes. Does she love us back? Or is this a "she's just not that into you" kind of situation where Marine just shows up when she's in the mood? I make no apologies. I think it would be foolish to not consider a player's availability. And it's not like I'm suggesting we consign Johannes to the end of the bench and never play her. If she's not committed, we can still use her as a sixth woman or first guard off the bench whenever she does show up. However, I don't think NY should make Johannes a starter or trade away other players because of her -- not unless you feel pretty sure she's going to return regularly.
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Lib Fan
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| Posted: 01/11/20 2:13 pm ::: |
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X________________ !
Well put
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