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Becky Hammon...first?
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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 12/08/19 4:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Yeah, she's not the first in line to replace Pop. Don't know why people think she is.


Because, if she's not, then that proves conclusively that meritocracy is a lie. When people were talking about her getting a HC job two years ago, the strongest criticism was that she didn't have enough experience. By experience, Hammon is the most senior assistant for the Spurs, after Chip Engelland, who either doesn't want the job, or isn't considered HC material. Tim Duncan, by comparison, practically just walked in off the street. If he's allowed to jump the line, then all the objections to not promoting Hammon two years ago will be proven to have been bullshit.



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PicknLOL



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PostPosted: 12/08/19 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Now, I personally remain sceptical that allegedly poorer odds with the organization that you have been working with, where you know the players and are still spoken about as the heir apparent in all the media, uncertain as it might be, is in itself a worse bet than jumping into a completely different team that's rigged to blow and blame you for it. However, I shouldn't have said Hammon should stick with the Spurs, as if I know better and I'm questioning her. That's dumb. Laughing

I wanted to say that she has chances that go higher than inarguably the worst team, and I hope she gets one of those, and it will be seriously messed up if she cannot, given her current position in the Spurs. Declaring her interest for a head coaching job at the Knicks doesn't negate that.

I don't see Budenholzer leaving the Bucks, though.


Randy



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PostPosted: 12/08/19 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe I'm missing something - is Pop going to leave at the end of the season? I figured it would be a while down the road. I agree Bud has too much going for him with the Bucks now. In the future? Who knows?



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PostPosted: 12/08/19 5:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
She's not going to get a shot at a good team


Correct. Most GOOD teams aren't going to fire their coach.

But there's a difference between being a team bad enough to get the coach fired and being the Knicks, who are beyond bad.


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PostPosted: 12/09/19 1:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something - is Pop going to leave at the end of the season? I figured it would be a while down the road.

No one really knows, but the fact that the Spurs currently look like they might miss the playoffs for the first time in eons has led to increased speculation that he might call it quits and hand over to someone else for a true rebuilding period.

On Becky, I don't think they'll actually offer it to her, and it'd be setting her up to fail because the roster's horrible with little prospect of quick improvement. But if they did offer it to her I certainly couldn't blame her for taking it. There are only 30 of those jobs, and the money's always guaranteed. She'd be making a fortune, even if she got fired barely halfway through the contract (as would seem pretty likely, based on history).



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would love to believe Becky, or any woman, would be given a head coaching job in the NBA, but to me, it's just virtue-signalling. There are too many men with better qualifications, and of course, there's way too much sexism in front offices, on the rosters and among the fan base to overcome.



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PicknLOL



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are better-qualified men looking for jobs at the positions Becky is interested in, that is in the Spurs and... the Knicks? Cause even if the statement as written is literally true, I have this feeling that at the end of the day she'll be snubbed for someone less qualified in at least one of those two places, invalidating the argument. She's been described by players she's coached as a superb coach, and in the absence of a good viewer-side gauge for the job of an assistant, I'd take them at their word. Will the coach who lands the job at the Knicks, or eventually succeeds Popovich be better? Not even talking about experience, if the Spurs choose Duncan that's 5 years less of it.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 12:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PicknLOL wrote:
There are better-qualified men looking for jobs at the positions Becky is interested in, that is in the Spurs and... the Knicks? Cause even if the statement as written is literally true, I have this feeling that at the end of the day she'll be snubbed for someone less qualified in at least one of those two places, invalidating the argument. She's been described by players she's coached as a superb coach, and in the absence of a good viewer-side gauge for the job of an assistant, I'd take them at their word. Will the coach who lands the job at the Knicks, or eventually succeeds Popovich be better? Not even talking about experience, if the Spurs choose Duncan that's 5 years less of it.


There are talented coaches who have been in the NBA for 20 years or more, waiting for a shot, and there are former head coaches who are good who were fired for reasons outside their control.

It could be, of course, that Hammon is the best candidate in the very large pool of qualified candidates, but she still would have to battle the sexism that taints many of the players, a lot of administrators and too many fans. That is not her fault, but it still makes a difficult job even more difficult, from a practical perspective.

And though I think very highly of Hammon and would love to see her get that job, I also would be very surprised if her resume was one of the best 10, or even 20, that the Knicks will consider.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PicknLOL wrote:
There are better-qualified men looking for jobs at the positions Becky is interested in, that is in the Spurs and... the Knicks? Cause even if the statement as written is literally true, I have this feeling that at the end of the day she'll be snubbed for someone less qualified in at least one of those two places, invalidating the argument. She's been described by players she's coached as a superb coach, and in the absence of a good viewer-side gauge for the job of an assistant, I'd take them at their word. Will the coach who lands the job at the Knicks, or eventually succeeds Popovich be better? Not even talking about experience, if the Spurs choose Duncan that's 5 years less of it.


Completely agree. I don't consider it valuable to have a discussion of who is or isn't most qualified--and how we might decide that. In the selection of head coaches for NBA teams, just as in the rest of our culture, lots of candidates who aren't the most qualified get the job. I'm certain that many people reading this thread, with jobs in very diverse occupations and professions, have seen less qualified or completely unqualified people get hired.


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
There are too many men with better qualifications, and of course, there's way too much sexism in front offices, on the rosters and among the fan base to overcome.

Men with better qualifications than Hammon? Sure. "Too many" men with better qualifications? That's a matter of some contention. For it to be true, you pretty much have to include every living male who was ever an NBA head coach in the past, including former/retired head coaches, whether they even want to get back into coaching or not. The Los Angeles lakers, for example have two former head coaches as assistants, in Lionel Hollins and Jason Kidd, who are way more "qualified," at least in terms of experience, to be a head coach, but I'll bet you lunch that neither one of them would get out of bed to even take a phone call from the Knicks. John Calipari, based on prior experience, is technically more qualified than Hammon to be an NBA head coach as well (even though the league has changed so substantially since he last coached that most of his experience is likely irrelevant), and he's not leaving Kentucky to coach the Knicks, either. You think that Stan Van Gundy wants to get back into coaching bad enough that he's interested in leaving his comfy TV job, to coach the Knicks? Because I don't. If you restrict the pool of available head coaching candidates to those who would be likely to accept the job, I promise you that the number of "more qualified" males is much smaller than you think it is.

And the less said about your "virtue signalling" comment, the better. Rolling Eyes



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 1:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
There are talented coaches who have been in the NBA for 20 years or more, waiting for a shot...

Where?


Quote:
and there are former head coaches who are good who were fired for reasons outside their control.

And, for pretty much all of them, top assistant on a contender is a better job than head coach of the Knicks. Any former head coach "who is good" is going to have confidence that a better job than the Knicks is right around the corner. If you're a former head coach "who is good," then you know that you don't need to just take any job, in order to prove yourself, so why would you settle for coaching the Knicks, when you can just wait for Alvin Gentry or Terry Stotts to get fired?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 3:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You may well be right about the candidates who would be interested in the Knicks' job, but that wasn't my point ...

My point is that there are numerous assistants on every team in the NBA with tremendous resumes, and not just former head coaches. Each team has something like six assistants, and if three on each team were interested, that's 90 candidates. And though Hammon may be more qualified than 2/3 of them, that would still put her 30th.

And that doesn't include college coaches with pro experience or unemployed former head coaches who might still be viable.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 12/09/19 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
And the less said about your "virtue signalling" comment, the better. Rolling Eyes


Totally with you about the comment on "virtue signalling." I'd never heard that term before. Ugh.

Is it actually possible for anyone to imagine that James Dolan (Hideous Lord Jimmy) would engage in whatever is presumably meant by "virtue signalling"? Wow! The guy who hired his BFF, sexual harasser Isiah Thomas, to be president of a professional women's basketball team and wanted to make Isiah co-owner? The guy who lies to this day about how the jury ruled in Anucha Browne's sexual harassment lawsuit?


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 12/10/19 2:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yes the organization is beyond terrible but there is some slight hope for the next Knicks coach

1. They are so bad that winning one in every three games would be considered marked improvement, going even say 15-35 the last 50 games a poor .300 winning percentage would be enough to probably be considered a success for whoever is the new coach

2. The team is in such disarray that a new GM is likely and moving a number of players by the trade deadline is very possible. Morris, Gibson, Portis or Randle could probably bring back meager returns from competitive teams trying to improve their depth or size for a playoff push with Morris probably being able to get you a little bit more than the others (I would probably stick with Randle for another a season as a potential building block).

3. The Knicks will clearly get a high lottery pick, so going into 20/21 you can do an actual rebuild around Barrett, Randle, top 5 lottery pick, Knox and Robonson, with room for more development from Nilikina and Smith going into 20/21 you have a little hope

4. 20/21 you probably still have low enough expectation to survive another poor season as long as there is some improvement or development from the youth.

5. You get another lottery pick in 21 and Maybe the new GM looking to 21/22 brings in some role playing free agents like PX did with Baynes and Rubio that could make the team go from laughing stock to young developing team with some hope

6. and come summer of 21 or 22 the Knicks can try again for a big name free agent or two to add to its now slowly improving team

being the coach that could rise to that challenge, work in tandem with a new GM and possibly get the Knick to the bottom of the playoff picture going into their third season of 21/22 could be a great opportunity for an up and coming coach. ANd if free agents like what they see from the improved Knicks come 22/23 the team could be a legit playoff team. Hammon if given the chance might have what it takes to pull that off.

On the other hand the Knicks could just continue to be awful until they are under new ownership and management and so the next coach will just be another in a long line of casualties but I could see where someone might take the risk to be the wild card to turn things around. And in this sexist world I don't think if a woman was the coach of the Knicks and the Knicks continued to fail that her gender would get the blame, which I think would be an unfortunate side affect the first woman to be an NBA coach will face in many other situations id she fails to succeed.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/10/19 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

3. The Knicks will clearly get a high lottery pick, so going into 20/21 you can do an actual rebuild around Barrett, Randle, top 5 lottery pick, Knox and Robonson, with room for more development from Nilikina and Smith going into 20/21 you have a little hope.


One problem is that the Knicks keep drafting guys like Barrett, Knox, and Nilikina who are athletic but can't shoot. Randle and Robinson can't shoot either. Zach Lowe of ESPN notes how this allows opponents to clog the middle on defense:

Quote:
The Knicks cannot effectively play their star free-agent acquisition with their second-most-important building block. That seems like a thing you would want to do.

Randle and Robinson share the court about 10 minutes per game. Opponents have humiliated New York by 18 points per 100 possessions in those minutes. The Knicks' offense has sputtered almost to a halt.

Robinson is a game-changing rim-runner, but he tiptoes through thickets of bodies with Randle and Frank Ntilikina also on the floor. New York's ball handlers have no actionable passing corridors...



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PostPosted: 12/10/19 3:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
One problem is that the Knicks keep drafting guys like Barrett, Knox, and Nilikina who are athletic but can't shoot. Randle and Robinson can't shoot either.


Quite right. But the answer is right before our eyes.

Hideous Lord Jimmy already showed his genius by insisting that the Knicks trade half the store for Carmelo Anthony rather than waiting a little till Carmelo became a free agent.

Now HLJ can do it again. Barrett, Robinson, all three of our point guards, and two future first round draft choices for Carmelo. Smile


toad455



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PostPosted: 12/10/19 6:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yet they drafted Porzingis and let him walk in a trade demand for basically a bag of chips. The fact is no one wants to play for the Knicks & Dolan. Do we really want Hammon coaching a glorified G-League team?



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PostPosted: 12/10/19 7:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EnL29LCGfNE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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PostPosted: 12/10/19 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sounds like the TMZ guy said Becky Harmon. Confused



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PostPosted: 01/19/20 8:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=28518332&endcard=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0"></iframe></embed>

Becky Hammon convinces Gregg Popovich to challenge, and it goes in the Spurs' favor



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PostPosted: 01/21/20 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:
Becky Hammon convinces Gregg Popovich to challenge, and it goes in the Spurs' favor


I saw this on ESPN.

Was really great to see the recognition for Hammon. First, challenges are not notoriously famous for being overly successful. Second, getting Pop to change his mind is no small feat. Third, she was correct.


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