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Let the impeachment begin
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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 527
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PostPosted: 11/08/19 6:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm aware of the law, and am also aware that the House can impeach for any reason they see fit. What I'm not seeing is any wrongdoing. The President has the authority to dictate foreign policy as he sees fit. That includes quid pro quo. Which is why nobody is complaining that Obama actually withheld foreign aid completely from Ukraine. What Biden did for Hunter is a whole other story.

But with President Trump's phone call, there was no quid pro quo (even though its still OK). The foreign aid payment was delayed until after the phone call. During the call, he asked Zelensky if he had any information about CrowdStrike. He asked of NOTHING in return. After the phone call the payment was released.

We have a treaty with the Ukraine that allows our leaders to root out corruption and President Trump did everything by the book. So if the House wants to impeach because they don't like the results of the election, they will pay a price down the road.

I'm still waiting to hear what crime it is that you (or the House for that matter) think he committed. The House sure can't seem to decide. All I know is that impeachment was the platform they were running on during the last election cycle. They can certainly invent a reason, but there will be consequences for that.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 11/08/19 7:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Multiple witnesses have testified now that there was Quid Pro Quo, that Ukraine knew that if they wanted the aid and a personal meeting with Trump they needed to publicly announce they were looking into the Biden thing.

And yes, when it's serving the interest of our country we often use QPQ as part of diplomacy. But it crosses the line when a president does it for personal reasons.

As far as offense (which is a better word than "crime", since we aren't looking for criminal acts but rather impeachable offenses as designated by the constitution) I noted in my other post which ones they were. His holding up of aid and using a White House visit to get them to investigate the Biden conspiracy theory is an abuse of power (thus a "high crime and misdemeanor") and because of the QPQ also bribery.

There will likely be more when it's all said and done and everything comes out about Rudy and the others but from what has currently been released, those are the most obvious ones.

It's fine. You don't have to believe me. The public hearings happen next week starting with Bill Taylor, and we can all see it live then.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 11/08/19 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Justin, Justin....you're so inimitably cute! Reminds me of an earnest youngster trying to explain the flavor of caviar to a slug. Laughing

Just yesterday, I'm waiting at the service desk of my local grocery store. Along comes a scraggly-lookin' dude....long, stringy gray hair coming out from under his baseball cap; he's got a fistful of scratch-offs to validate. Rush Limbaugh's voice is blaring off his pocketed phone. Tickets? All duds. In that brief moment, I saw a brief flash of What's Happened In America: people have lost touch with reality. In the opioid-ish crisis of Lost Hope and Crumbled Dreams, Don The Con provides a bizarre optimism for something better. Utterly sad.

Genero36 wrote:

Genero may have offered this as satire, but we all know it's our new reality.

That said, I have every confidence that Justice will prevail, thanks to the dedicated objectivity of Democratic congressional members (as contrasted to the sycophants of the GOP, who've degenerated into a cult of personality worship, supporting the most egregiously lawless president that ever took breath. See: Jeff Sessions' latest move. Laughing)



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 11/08/19 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump-Ukraine timeline, according to the Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/24/full-trump-ukraine-timeline-now/



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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 11/08/19 4:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Multiple witnesses have testified now that there was Quid Pro Quo, that Ukraine knew that if they wanted the aid and a personal meeting with Trump they needed to publicly announce they were looking into the Biden thing.

And yes, when it's serving the interest of our country we often use QPQ as part of diplomacy. But it crosses the line when a president does it for personal reasons.

As far as offense (which is a better word than "crime", since we aren't looking for criminal acts but rather impeachable offenses as designated by the constitution) I noted in my other post which ones they were. His holding up of aid and using a White House visit to get them to investigate the Biden conspiracy theory is an abuse of power (thus a "high crime and misdemeanor") and because of the QPQ also bribery.

There will likely be more when it's all said and done and everything comes out about Rudy and the others but from what has currently been released, those are the most obvious ones.

It's fine. You don't have to believe me. The public hearings happen next week starting with Bill Taylor, and we can all see it live then.


Unless these multiple "witnesses" can refute the transcript, they don't serve any purpose.

You hit the nail on the head in your third paragraph. There's no crime but they're looking for an offense. Couldn't have said it better myself. If that's how they're going to proceed, don't be surprised when the shoe is on the other foot one day. The Democrats have already given up the argument when it comes to qpq and payment withholding in Ukraine by the way.

This is going to end the same way the Mueller investigation ended, with me bringing this thread back from the dead with a good ol' trip down memory lane and saying I told you so.


Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 11/08/19 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 11/08/19 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No transcript of the call has been made public.

What so many erroneously call a transcript is merely another "summary" made by the Trump Admin (i.e., Trump himself) as a means to con the public.

For reference, see the Barr "summary" of the Mueller Report.

Multiple witnesses cannot sway the kool-aid drinkers. No surprise there, and who gives a fuck?

Trump has been a crook his entire life and ain't stopping now.

Oh look, his charity was a fraud and illegally aided his campaign. Shocking.



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sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 11/09/19 2:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
No transcript of the call has been made public.


yeah. stop calling it a transcript.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 11/09/19 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
No transcript of the call has been made public.

yeah. stop calling it a transcript.


Why?! Shocked

The Repugs are calling fact-finding inquiries "hearings", hearings are called "witch hunts", and congressmen who are actually part of the process cry foul on lack of transparency. Transactions are called "Quid pro quos" by Get Over It Mulvaney, until they aren't "quid pro quos". Obfuscation of Reality is de rigeur, and the GOPs only real defense. Laughing



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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 11/10/19 8:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Its called reality. Maybe you all should try living in it. But go ahead, keep thinking that your avowed conspiracy theorists are going to have any evidence to the contrary of what's in the transcript. They won't. There were a handful of people who listened to the phone call and so far only a few people who didn't even hear it first-hand are refuting it.

I get it. You only want to believe a narrative instead of facts. Didn't stop any of you during the Mueller investigation or the Kavanaugh hearings, so why would this time be any different? When this passes, you can expect the same ridicule from me as all of the other times you were 100% wrong.


sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 11/10/19 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

just. wow.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 11/10/19 8:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It takes a high level of cognitive dissonance for a Trump supporter to decry others as "conspiracy theorists".



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Shades



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PostPosted: 11/10/19 9:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/63j4BkbJLHI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 11/10/19 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
It takes a high level of cognitive dissonance for a Trump supporter to decry others as "conspiracy theorists".


"Cognitive dissonance"?? I believe that's High English for "Batshit Crazy", right?? Laughing



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 11/10/19 7:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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Genero36



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PostPosted: 11/10/19 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 11/12/19 7:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some have forgotten the Mueller Report was heavily redacted and hasn't been seen in its entirety by high-level security-cleared Congress. There is much that needs to be released.

It did not exonerate Trump, (despite Barr's bs "summation") and listed 10 instances of obstruction of justice.

To then say the Impeachment Inquiry is going to be another MR, as a way to ridicule both, is an excellent example of delusional cult-think.

Trump's a life-long con man crook. I laugh at "intelligent" people who swallowed, and continue to swallow, his bullshit, hook, line, and sinker.

"You been had, been took, misled, led astray...The real criminal is in the White House."



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Howee



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PostPosted: 11/12/19 8:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I LOVE this! Articles of Impeachment:

RESOLVED, _______________ , President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors . . .

Article One: In his conduct while President of the United States . . . in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of the President . . . has . . . undermined the integrity of his office . . . betrayed his trust as President . . . and acted in a manner subversive of the rule of law by:

•willfully corrupting and manipulating the judicial process of the United States for his personal gain and exoneration

•willfully committing perjury by providing false and misleading testimony to the grand jury in relation to his relationship with an employee

•willfully committing perjury by providing false and misleading testimony to the grand jury in relation to prior perjurious testimony in a civil rights action brought against him

•allowing his attorney to make false and misleading statements in the same civil rights action

•attempting to influence witness testimony and slow the discovery of evidence in that civil rights action


Article Three: . . . has [in the _________ Case] prevented, obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice by:

•encouraging a witness to give a perjurious affidavit

•encouraging a witness to give false testimony if called to the stand

•allowing and/or encouraging the concealment of subpoenaed evidence

•attempting to sway a witness testimony by providing a job for that witness

•allowing his attorney to make misleading testimony

•giving false or misleading information to influence the testimony of a potential witness in a Federal civil rights action

•giving false or misleading information to influence the testimony of a witness in a grand jury investigation

These are the Articles of Impeachment for BILL CLINTON. Most of this is *stuff* Trump does EVERY WEEK. Yet, his sycophants insist HIS behavior doesn't rise to the level of impeachment.

In 1998, 31 Democrats voted to impeach their president for this dishonorable and illegal conduct. Today? ZERO Republicans offer their support of accountability from their leader.

Perjury. The only reason Don The Con hasn't lied under oath is cuz his 'handlers' have prevented him from testifying under any oaths.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 11/12/19 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0z0YlSe9b7E" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 11/13/19 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

what bullshit will the #LawlessGOP pull today, I wonder?



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sambista



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PostPosted: 11/13/19 9:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jesus christ! this is a surefire way of pushing the electorate away from watching these hearings. it's almost two hours later, and nothing.

if you want anyone on god's green earth to care, get on with it!



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 11/13/19 10:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 11/13/19 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why is he making this seem like a partisan issue and not a treason issue?

Lawd Nunes is an insufferable scumbag.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 11/13/19 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow...he’s naming ALL names of the irregular channel!

Come through Taylor!!’



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 11/13/19 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nunes lied 9x in opening remarks per Marcy Wheeler dailykos.

I guess he's not in game shape yet.



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