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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 10/07/19 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK, Liberty fans. Read this article and consider yourselves warned. If you go to a 2020 home game, especially in the Barclay Center, do NOT unveil a sign supporting the protesters in Hong Kong. Joe Tsai may appear and personally rip up your sign, then get you tossed from the building.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/07/nets-owner-joe-tsai-rips-rockets-gm-daryl-morey-for-supporting-hong-kong-demonstrators/

I hate to go against Joe--we are alumni of the same terrible alma mater--but nevertheless I stand in solidarity with the Hong Kong demonstrators.


Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 10/07/19 2:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought the formal statement was a bit kinder

I too support HK PROTEST

I'm DISSAPOINTED in joe but not mad very complicated position

Just so Joe's dislike of social justice in Hong Kong doesn't undermine the libs COMMITMENT to social justice HERE! THIS IS A CORE VALUE OF THIS CLUB.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 10/07/19 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kinda makes me wonder if Han Xu shares the same opinion as Tsai, or not...


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 10/07/19 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Kinda makes me wonder if Han Xu shares the same opinion as Tsai, or not...


Intriguing question to which I suspect we won't get an answer.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 10/07/19 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
I thought the formal statement was a bit kinder

I too support HK PROTEST

I'm DISSAPOINTED in joe but not mad very complicated position

Just so Joe's dislike of social justice in Hong Kong doesn't undermine the libs COMMITMENT to social justice HERE! THIS IS A CORE VALUE OF THIS CLUB.


Great statement you've made about the team's commitment to social justice HERE. The Liberty have done some very admirable things in this regard.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 10/07/19 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Tsai's statement is about as much as you can expect under the circumstances. He's vice chairman of a Chinese company. Do people expect him to openly contradict the Chinese government? Even if Tsai took a stand against the government, what would that accomplish? Very realistically, he could get booted from his position at Alibaba. Along the way, the government could find trumped-up reasons to strip him of his stock ownership. All of a sudden, our billionaire owner is no longer a billionaire. And he'd run the risk of being arrested if he returned to China. Due process is a joke in totalitarian countries, and wealth won't protect you. Look at what Putin has done to billionaires who opposed him in Russia.

As far as Han goes, what she thinks may matter very little. Her return will likely be decided by the pro team that owns her contract, the Chinese Basketball Federation, and possibly the Chinese Government.



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 10/08/19 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nurse will take part in Canada's Olympic qualifiers next month.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2019/10/07/kia-nurse-will-take-the-road-more-travelled-if-thats-what-it-takes-to-get-to-the-olympics-again.html



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 10/08/19 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Nurse will take part in Canada's Olympic qualifiers next month.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2019/10/07/kia-nurse-will-take-the-road-more-travelled-if-thats-what-it-takes-to-get-to-the-olympics-again.html

If she's healthy, that's what you'd expect. They won't remotely need her to win in November, but it's preparation for when they might in February.



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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 10/08/19 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I think Tsai's statement is about as much as you can expect under the circumstances. He's vice chairman of a Chinese company. Do people expect him to openly contradict the Chinese government? Even if Tsai took a stand against the government, what would that accomplish? Very realistically, he could get booted from his position at Alibaba. Along the way, the government could find trumped-up reasons to strip him of his stock ownership. All of a sudden, our billionaire owner is no longer a billionaire. And he'd run the risk of being arrested if he returned to China. Due process is a joke in totalitarian countries, and wealth won't protect you. Look at what Putin has done to billionaires who opposed him in Russia.

As far as Han goes, what she thinks may matter very little. Her return will likely be decided by the pro team that owns her contract, the Chinese Basketball Federation, and possibly the Chinese Government.


Or the US could prohibit ownership of Chinese stocks by Americans and drive down the value of Ali Baba stock. Like 4% in one day.....

As for Han, US-China relations are getting worse by the day. For example, Visa Restrictions could be placed on more Chinese citizens denying them entry. If this continues she may never be back.



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 10/08/19 6:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:

Or the US could prohibit ownership of Chinese stocks by Americans and drive down the value of Ali Baba stock. Like 4% in one day.....

As for Han, US-China relations are getting worse by the day. For example, Visa Restrictions could be placed on more Chinese citizens denying them entry. If this continues she may never be back.


Those are things the US Government might do anyway without prompting. They have nothing to do with the NBA or WNBA. I was specifically discussing action the Chinese government might take to punish Joe Tsai if he openly agreed with Daryl Morey's tweet in support of the Hong Kong protesters.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 10/08/19 6:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've probably drifted into Area 51 territory, so I'll drop it.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 10/10/19 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/465111-lawmakers-blast-nba-for-outrageous-response-to-chinese-boycott



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 10/10/19 2:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not impressed. Unlike Adam Silver, neither Ted Cruz nor Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez runs much risk in criticizing China. You haven't stood up for principle until you've put yourself in line for major pain. Cruz and AOC are just grandstanding.



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 10/10/19 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sad that speaking out for human rights gets put down here.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/10/19 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I did not criticize Daryl Morey who actually spoke out for human rights and is paying for it. People love patting themselves on the back for "speaking out," but it's easy when there are no consequences. In the case of politicians, they usually do it to get votes or play to their base.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 10/10/19 4:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I did not criticize Daryl Morey who actually spoke out for human rights and is paying for it. People love patting themselves on the back for "speaking out," but it's easy when there are no consequences. In the case of politicians, they usually do it to get votes or play to their base.


I respect everyone who speaks out for human rights. It's your right to keep sharing your cynicism and critiques here. I hope everyone here will speak out on whatever human rights issues move them. I hope people will speak out on this board but especially off this board.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 10/10/19 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not sure about Cruz’s angle, but AOC is legitimate about her concern about human rights violations.



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Last edited by Shades on 10/10/19 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Shades



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PostPosted: 10/10/19 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/izohpKPd9CM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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jmvcity



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 10/11/19 2:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Alright, 2019 is done. It's about time for some much-needed news about the Libs' new home and coaching status. I already got a call earlier this week from my account rep gauging interest in renewing my season subscription since their MSG days. She said an announcement about the home arena will be coming very soon. Whatever that means - a week, a month, 6 months???


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 10/12/19 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
I did not criticize Daryl Morey who actually spoke out for human rights and is paying for it. People love patting themselves on the back for "speaking out," but it's easy when there are no consequences. In the case of politicians, they usually do it to get votes or play to their base.


I respect everyone who speaks out for human rights. It's your right to keep sharing your cynicism and critiques here. I hope everyone here will speak out on whatever human rights issues move them. I hope people will speak out on this board but especially off this board.


Just to be clear, I have no problems with anyone criticizing China over human rights. What I object to is the smarmy holier-than-thou criticism of Adam Silver and Joe Tsai by people who have nothing at risk. I was watching some writer from Slate Magazine on the PBS Newshour. He was saying something like shame on Adam Silver and shame on the NBA with this smug expression on his face. Well, this guy is sitting in his office in NYC or DC surrounded by his liberal journalist friends. What the hell is he risking by criticizing China? It's the suggestion that somehow he is morally superior for speaking out unabashedly while Silver does not that angers me. All decisions have a context. You cannot ignore the circumstances and the consequences when judging people -- both yours and theirs.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
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And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 10/12/19 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What I can't ignore is that there are far too many people who spend much more time and energy criticizing those who speak out for human rights than actually speaking out for human rights themselves.

Sorry to be repetitive. I'll just say one final time: I support everyone who speaks out for human rights anywhere. My last comment in this discussion.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/12/19 12:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And I have no problems exposing smarmy, self-righteous people who criticize the actions of others while they are not similarly at risk.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 10/12/19 9:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All decisions do indeed have a context. I wholeheartedly support people like AOC, but Root is right. It's unrealistic to expect a person like Joe Tsai to take a stand against China under his circumstances. It doesn't make him a bad person. It's simply a matter of circumstance and nothing can change that.

I do also support speaking in favor of human rights. But it's one thing to stand up for human rights, and another to criticize those unfairly when they're not in a position to take a similar stance. I think that's Root's main point.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/12/19 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And in Silver's case, while people would like him to be some kind of globally magnanimous leader of the NBA and the sport of basketball - and I'm sure he'd love to be that too - he's ultimately an employee of the 30 NBA owners. His job is to do the best for those 30 people/groups, which usually means 'make the most possible money' for those 30.

That's ultimately why this has been so complicated. China represents so much money for the NBA, that they're willing to basically gloss over and ignore some things that don't fit in with their usual outlook. If Morey had sent out a tweet that led to, say, Liechtenstein being outraged and breaking off relations with the NBA, they'd probably have backed his right to free speech and barely given a crap. China's worth too much.



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PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 10/13/19 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
And I have no problems exposing smarmy, self-righteous people who criticize the actions of others while they are not similarly at risk.


So you’re saying it’s wrong to call people out for being puppets to a system that is violating human rights when they have nothing of equal value at stake?!? Okay. I guess I can’t criticize Putin anymore because I don’t have a dictatorship to lose. Rolling Eyes What?!?

What would have happened if Silver and Thai would have just said NOTHING rather than voicing their opinion in support something that alienates a huge chunk of the NBA’s domestic fandom?


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