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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: 09/29/19 2:16 pm ::: |
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| Engelbert said in her press conference before Game 1 today that the Liberty & Tsai will have an announcement regarding their home venue "in a few weeks". So we should hear something soon.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 09/29/19 4:17 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| So my question would be this: What players improved with Weatherspoon's help? (And I'm not claiming anything either way -- just looking for data.) |
I think this is an understandable question but also an impossible question. Kia Nurse improved from her rookie season to her second, even with a second-half slump. Did Teresa Weatherspoon help her? Did Katie Smith help her? Did Tanisha Wright help her? Can we reasonably expect anyone here to meaningfully answer these questions?
(And how could we assess times that Weatherspoon gave players terrific advice that they ignored? Or that they attempted to implement but couldn't?)
I'm not writing any of the above to defend Weatherspoon. I know you weren't attempting to be critical of her. Perhaps people will have terrific answers that I can't anticipate, but I'm very skeptical that any of us can do that. I certainly can't. |
Yes. It's an impossible question to answer not being there. To me, Boyd's unwillingness to shoot is a mindset that a coach may not necessarily be able to fix. It's not impossible, but confidence in one's own individual skillset ultimately does have to come at least somewhat from within.
I know there's plenty of people who think Boyd "can't shoot". While it's true that she won't be confused with Kristi Toliver, in the last two seasons her FT% improved to 77%. In spite of this she attempted only 40 shots all season from between 11-21 feet, even though we all know from 15 feet out she was almost never guarded. And while she only made 13 of those shots, she actually made 35% from the 16-21 distance, which is the distance where you're not likely to be guarded at all. I can't count how many times I felt she could have just pulled up from the foul line and shot an open shot. Certainly it's a better percentage likelihood than holding your dribble for half the shot clock or more. That mindset...it's not something that a development coach could necessarily coach out of someone.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 09/29/19 5:19 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Yes. It's an impossible question to answer not being there. To me, Boyd's unwillingness to shoot is a mindset that a coach may not necessarily be able to fix. It's not impossible, but confidence in one's own individual skillset ultimately does have to come at least somewhat from within.
I know there's plenty of people who think Boyd "can't shoot". While it's true that she won't be confused with Kristi Toliver, in the last two seasons her FT% improved to 77%. In spite of this she attempted only 40 shots all season from between 11-21 feet, even though we all know from 15 feet out she was almost never guarded. And while she only made 13 of those shots, she actually made 35% from the 16-21 distance, which is the distance where you're not likely to be guarded at all. I can't count how many times I felt she could have just pulled up from the foul line and shot an open shot. Certainly it's a better percentage likelihood than holding your dribble for half the shot clock or more. That mindset...it's not something that a development coach could necessarily coach out of someone. |
Well said.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 09/29/19 5:26 pm ::: |
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Here is what she will be doing - basically working with player(s) who are on the end of the bench and may sent down or called up from the G-League team. She may be spending a lot of time in Erie, PA. The role is probably dealing with players who are working on some pretty basic aspects of the game. Seems to me she is well qualified for the job.
| Quote: |
| Diggs and Weatherspoon will work closely with the team’s two-way players and will accompany them to and from their transfers to the Pelicans’ G League affiliate, the Erie BayHawks |
https://www.nola.com/article_7293bafc-e08f-11e9-b86b-43158939738d.html
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: 09/30/19 4:47 pm ::: |
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In the recently completed Asia Games/India
The NY Liberty had two players voted to the All-star team
Rebecca Allen -Australia and Han Xu for China
For the Olympics we might have at least 4 or 5 players ,
on national teams
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 09/30/19 9:56 pm ::: |
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It might be more
Hartley and Johannes play for France
Nurse and Raincock-Ekunwe play for Canada
R. Allen plays for Australia
Han Xu plays for China
Stokes plays for Turkey (not sure if Turkey has qualified)
Zahui B plays for Sweden (not sure if Sweden has qualified)
and Charles still has a shot at the US National team (by my calculation she is competing with a lot of players for one of the last two spots but has the loyalty factor working in her favor and she would certainly be one of the first post injury replacements if someone ahead of her in the food chain get hurts or withdraws).
and new #1 pick Ionescu seems to be in high consideration for the 3x3 competition making its Olympic debut and will probably get a National team camp for the senior team as well or if the US does not qualify for 3x3.
so that is up to 9 of last years 12 playing in the Olympics and our #1 pick
the remaining 3 would be Boyd, Durr and R. Gray
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 09/30/19 10:31 pm ::: |
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| Turkey did not qualify, so Stokes is free. Everyone else is still in the running. Hartley, Johannes, Nurse, Raincock, Han, and Allen are virtual locks. Unless Team USA suddenly starts using pro players for 3x3, which they haven't so far for whatever reason, Ionescu is probably a lock too.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 10/01/19 8:15 am ::: |
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| The Hartley/Johannes french combo is our biggest worry. I'd assume Han doesn't show up. No big loss if Raincock sits out. Nurse is injured and didn't play in the AmericaCup, so we'll see if she plays in November for Canada. I think if Nurse ends up not playing overseas, we'll get her for 2020. Aussies typically show up, so I'm guessing we get Allen. Zahui B seems committed to the Liberty, so we should get her as well.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 10/01/19 8:34 am ::: |
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| Probably best if the end of the bench players sit for the season (NRE, Han) and NY finds a replacement for Hartley. With Johannes it looks like it will be hard to ever get her for a full season, but she's worth waiting for. This may help Gray and Boyd keep their jobs next year. Is Sweden all that likely to get into the Olympics?
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toad455
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| Posted: 10/01/19 8:53 am ::: |
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| Sweden seems like a long shot to qualify. But it really seems like a luck of the draw for the final qualifier in February.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 10/01/19 10:46 am ::: |
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| I'm not worried about Nurse. Canada has historically been pretty understanding about their players staying with WNBA teams. NRE took last year off by choice. Besides, Nurse is treated like the team's star -- their #1 option. Are they really going to leave her off the team?
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toad455
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 10/05/19 9:18 am ::: |
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Thanks for posting this article, but it's ridiculous. Note that in this fairly long piece the author NEVER specifically includes the actual won-loss records of the New York Liberty in 2018 and 2019. All that's said is that the team didn't make the playoffs, not the team's pathetic winning percentage for the 68 regular season games that Katie Smith has coached.
An anonymous source says it would be "shameful" to dump Katie Smith. Well, then I guess any fan who endorses that move should be called "shameful." I plead guilty. I guess I won't have the respect of the gutless source who insisted on being anonymous. I'm using my real name.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 10/05/19 9:35 am ::: |
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No discussion of Smith's actual coaching -- the effectiveness of her systems, her deployment of players, in-game adjustments, etc.
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| “[The Liberty] have some great players and to balance all the talent, and try to keep everyone happy is not [one of] the easiest things to do,” Agler said after a matchup against New York on August 1. |
Is Agler suggesting that Smith struggles to win because the Liberty have too much talent?
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| In a column for The Athletic, Erica Ayala expressed how drafting the projected Sabrina Ionescu as the team’s floor general doesn’t make a majority of New York’s problems vanish. |
True, drafting Ionescu won't make the coach vanish.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 10/05/19 9:44 am ::: |
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Maybe these 'league sources' want Smith to stay in her job because they know they'd get to play against her at least three times next season? The idea of it being 'shameful' to fire a coach who's gone 17-51 over two seasons is laughable. Especially when you also go on about how much talent they've got.
But it's basically your classic HPH "write something about nothing" article. |
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 10/05/19 9:13 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| But it's basically your classic HPH "write something about nothing" article. |
True. But I'd also say it's a classic con game. Jackie Powell has given the pretense of fairly examining the case for and against retaining Katie Smith. But she hasn't. She's written a deceptive, wrongheaded opinion piece.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 10/06/19 7:29 am ::: |
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The article makes little sense also from the standpoint that Jackie Powell cites herself an Athletic article discussing how Ionescu doesn't solve all the Libs' problems but then in her own articles, praising the Libs for all their talent. To me it's just weird that a decision hasn't been made by now...you've had an opportunity to speak to who's available. And even if it were someone on the staff of one of the two teams still playing, typically assistants would be allowed to speak to another team about a head coaching job even during the playoffs.
It's kind of a weird situation, especially in light of Katie tweeting things like the Liberty won the number one pick and talking about the team's prospects for next season. On the surface, that makes it sound like she's staying. Either way, it's been a month already. The professional thing to do here is let her go or let her know she's staying.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 10/06/19 9:53 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
The article makes little sense also from the standpoint that Jackie Powell cites herself an Athletic article discussing how Ionescu doesn't solve all the Libs' problems but then in her own articles, praising the Libs for all their talent. To me it's just weird that a decision hasn't been made by now...you've had an opportunity to speak to who's available. And even if it were someone on the staff of one of the two teams still playing, typically assistants would be allowed to speak to another team about a head coaching job even during the playoffs.
It's kind of a weird situation, especially in light of Katie tweeting things like the Liberty won the number one pick and talking about the team's prospects for next season. On the surface, that makes it sound like she's staying. Either way, it's been a month already. The professional thing to do here is let her go or let her know she's staying. |
All your comments make sense. I'd just add these as possibilities:
1. If the Liberty have made an agreement with an assistant coach on Washington or Chicago--or, indeed, one of those head coaches--there's no way that that would be announced before the finals are over.
2. It's possible that the organization already HAS informed Katie Smith as to whether she's staying or going. Indeed, if they're dumping her, they could have an agreement that she's still on the payroll until they're ready to announce they've got a new coach.
I know nothing. I'm not saying that these speculations are true. Just that they could be true.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 10/06/19 10:11 am ::: |
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Add to the list:
3) New CEO hasn't gotten to Liberty yet, working on Nets and Barclays. There's no rush, really, as hiring a new coach in February is about the same as hiring one now in terms of actually doing the job.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 10/06/19 11:12 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Add to the list:
3) New CEO hasn't gotten to Liberty yet, working on Nets and Barclays. There's no rush, really, as hiring a new coach in February is about the same as hiring one now in terms of actually doing the job. |
I would disagree that you can wait quite that long and have it not matter - governor's meetings, free agency planning and free agency moves are all well underway by then (in a normal season - CBA wrangling may delay things this year) - but there's certainly no rush to have got things done by now. That said, the more typical way to do things would be what Indiana's done - make the decision that you're getting rid of the current coach, then take your time finding the next one. Rather than sitting around appearing to do absolutely nothing. |
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Shades
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| Posted: 10/06/19 11:56 am ::: |
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| The current CBA expires 10/31/19, so I’d expect the new one to be in place by then.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 10/06/19 12:00 pm ::: |
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I just think it's a bad look and a poor message to send to the team to be noncommittal at this point. Given how the last two seasons have transpired, it doesn't seem as though Katie is sending message that resonate within the team, particularly when it comes to correcting repetitive mistakes. Bringing her back after a noncommittal period deteriorates in my mind whatever influence over the players she might have. While you can argue that it isn't much anyway, leaving a coach twisting in the wind before bringing her back already makes her more of a lame duck.
And if a new administration is going to be in place, I'd personally infinitely prefer it to be by the time WCBB begins. To have internal discussions about WCBB personnel in a timely fashion and to form a legitimate plan for free agency. This is supposed to be an active free agent offseason and there's an argument to be made that the right acquisitions could propel the team quite nicely...as well as an argument that mishandling free agency/off-season transactions will leave them in a similar position defensively that they were in a year ago. What I think is fair to say is that with 4/5 of a lineup clearly established, now you're in an area where role players CAN be of significant value. If they're the correct role players. Having your administration properly in place can only help.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 10/06/19 12:31 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| The current CBA expires 10/31/19, so I’d expect the new one to be in place by then. |
Really? I'm not. I do expect one to get done to avoid any kind of delays to the 2020 season, but I wouldn't expect a new deal right away.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 10/06/19 12:57 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| The current CBA expires 10/31/19, so I’d expect the new one to be in place by then. |
Really? I'm not. I do expect one to get done to avoid any kind of delays to the 2020 season, but I wouldn't expect a new deal right away. |
Seems possible to me that a new CBA will be in place on or before 10/31/19. But it also seems possible--I'd guess, even more likely--that this won't happen on or before 10/31/19.
I'd add this. Many labor negotiations don't get settled till the last possible minute, especially when there's a threat of a strike or lockout. But in no way is midnight October 31st the last possible minute.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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| Posted: 10/07/19 7:25 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Add to the list:
3) New CEO hasn't gotten to Liberty yet, working on Nets and Barclays. There's no rush, really, as hiring a new coach in February is about the same as hiring one now in terms of actually doing the job. |
Part of it
But I think englebert is right of way end of month at latest
After playoffs there will be announcements it is also a general rule you don't make huge announcements during the playoffs (toler was an emergency)
One is renewals are held up in sure they want to start selling asap it's costing them money to be waiting
Also interesting at megdal and his unnamed sources now saying the kind SHOULDN'T fire Katie and put all the blame on wcc which to me is poppycock but wonder who's telling him to calm down the fan non could be the kind so they don't get roasted at an extension of its just Howard being Howard who knows
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