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Sun @ Sparks - 9/22/19
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Who will win this game?
Sun
52%
 52%  [ 13 ]
Sparks
48%
 48%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 25

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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/23/19 1:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fisher’s Parker Benching Was A Calculated Message To His Leader

https://theshadowleague.com/wnba-fishers-parker-benching-was-a-calculated-message-to-his-leader/

Quote:
I won’t be so quick to judge Fisher



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PicknLOL



Joined: 16 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 09/23/19 2:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Fisher’s Parker Benching Was A Calculated Message To His Leader

https://theshadowleague.com/wnba-fishers-parker-benching-was-a-calculated-message-to-his-leader/

Quote:
I won’t be so quick to judge Fisher


Does this never-ending article ever reach a point where it says anything in support of its title, or even barely related to it, or explaining what it means? Reprimanding Parker by losing the elimination game is a far cry from a calculated message, let alone one sent at the right time.


scrappy



Joined: 18 May 2006
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PostPosted: 09/23/19 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

fish is not the first one to ditch parker. remember geno auriemma and usa basketball?



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She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.


Last edited by scrappy on 09/23/19 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
scrappy



Joined: 18 May 2006
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PostPosted: 09/23/19 3:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

nonetheless, squibble between a coach and star player in pro sports. coach will be the one to go.



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She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.
PicknLOL



Joined: 16 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 09/23/19 4:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scrappy wrote:
nonetheless, squibble between a coach and star player in pro sports. coach will be the one to go.

For the squibble alone it would be stupid, but for giving your star third least minutes after Kalani Brown and Mabrey, less minutes than Riquna Williams who was MIA again, less minutes than Chiney? Or for also throwing the towel so early when you know you still have a chance to bring your best players one last time and have them perform a miracle (although, as pointed out, +20 points in 8 minutes isn't one)? Even if they don't pull it off, they have much better chance than the bench, and what, are you resting all your starters for next year?

As far as I recall the game, we didn't witness Parker doing anything that warranted this special treatment and benching, other than underperforming like the rest of the team. And that's not the reason, obviously, as Chelsea Gray's game wasn't one that shined either, but benching her for the whole game would have been dumb and she got 29 minutes. Nor does Fisher's explanation of trying different things to see what works make any sense, as 56 points is not exactly aligned with the definition of ‘working’, and he wasn't trying anything in 4Q other than giving up.

And even if he wanted to reprimand Parker for attitude, as has been variously implied, (dumbest reason to bench player in an elimination game, and the coach equivalent of throwing a high-level tantrum), the real hit under the belt would have been to have her play the final 8 minutes with the bench. Laughing

The only positive about keeping Parker on the bench is that she now has only -4 +/- in that onslaught, and has only 11 minutes of play to do with it, whereas the remaining 29 were -18, and Fisher was in play for all of them.


Libra_Girl



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 3:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Both things can be true CP can play half ass at times & Fisher is a bad coach. Not the first CP got bench in a playoff gm, Alger did it in a finals gm rightfully but 11mins is what everybody is shock about like you not even gonna give your star a chance to redeem herself? To prove a point to her in a elimination gm? If CP has a ego so does Fisher to pull that. Parker has her faults as an player but Derek waited until gm 3 to go deep in his bench to find "Something that worked" Rolling Eyes

Congrats Suns!


Genero36



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=27692628&endcard=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0"></iframe></embed>

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=27692628



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.espn.com/core/video/iframe?id=27696477&endcard=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0"></iframe></embed>

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=27696477



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StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 09/25/19 5:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dreamfan11 wrote:
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/25479007/why-la-sparks-put-derek-fisher-coaching-list-one

The coaching list of one.


The smile on Candace's face! My, how times have changed so quickly! Surprised



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willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 09/26/19 4:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The only thing I fault Fisher for in this respect is that he waited until the 3rd game to bench her. He should have done it earlier in the regular season when she played her usual half-hearted lack of effort games. She has had a history of doing this for multiple seasons now. It is one thing when a player is having an off shooting night, but you can always hustle and do some blue-collar things to help your team win. Like play defense and block out and get rebounds. If you are not scoring and your shots are not dropping you better do something else to justify your time on the floor.



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ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: 09/27/19 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
toad455 wrote:
If Fischer returns, I wonder if Parker sits out or demands a trade somewhere?


Hey, why not? Everyone else seems to be demanding trades... Confused


Not sure if CP would demand a trade considering she now planted roots in LA. Nice house, friends, kid goes to school there. But, if a team accepts her, she is going to have to be realistic about her physical condition. Let the pride thing go, and be willing to be to come off the bench, or something. She has a LOT of mileage on her legs since H.S., there is no shame in being a Super-Sub at this stage of her career.


ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: 09/27/19 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Some of you are using Fisher as a scapegoat....It was Toler who whiffed on the Cambage trade...Toler who made the trade for Chiney...Toler who let Sims walk...and Toler who sign Williams out of desperation because she didn't have any depth at sg/sf.

What did LA do last season without fisher?.... I was against the Fisher signing when it happened but he won me over. Fisher showed more fire during the playoffs than the Sparks players. He verbally went at A.Thomas while his players were too scared to get physical with her....Parker wasn't getting the job done. Candace did not rebound or defend in games 2 and 3, so fisher benched her. I have no problem with that.

I'd seriously consider trading Chiney and Candace....Firing Toler would also be an option.


She literally has no value. No team is trading anything for her since she demanded to go to LA.
Teams will bulk at the $100K+ paycheck too.

Side note: I can go on for days on Toler... Don't get me started on the season she put all 30+ somethings on the floor with CP, and expected them to win. Rolling Eyes


ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: 09/27/19 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dreamfan11 wrote:
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/25479007/why-la-sparks-put-derek-fisher-coaching-list-one

The coaching list of one.


Without reading the story...I'm willing to guess a lot had to do with Fish being a good buddy of Magic's.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 09/28/19 4:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have been critical of Fisher most of the season, but basically because he was inexperienced and had no real history with women's basketball. However, I believe that he might have a future in the WNBA especially now that he has a year under his belt. With the experience, he can only go up.

Parker, on the other hand, can only go down. She is no spring chicken and has never shown herself to put in the effort she was ever capable of. People need to stop living in the past and see reality. She is not the best player on the team anymore. She is not even the second-best player on the team anymore either. She certainly is not leader by example. Her lack of effort sets a bad example which bleeds down the rest of the team.

A previous pester made a comparison with the minutes that Parker got in respect to the rest of the team, especially Chelsea Gray. The deferance is that there was really no player to replace her at the point, This was evident by the huge number of minutes she had to play this season. Tolar made a bad decision when she traded Sims for A Jones, who is just not a WNBA level Point. She quickly went to the bottom of the roster in minutes even though she was the only real back up point. The team needed a player to insert if Chelsea was having a bad game ( which will happen to any player ) or to give her rest during the season. In Parker's case there were plenty of subs ready to step in - especially when she was not scoring and playing lacks or lousy defense.

I said early on that the team would be better off without Parker. They have won and played better basketball when she was out both this year and last. The only difference was that they were short-handed. Both seasons she came back and had a couple of good games but then reverted back to her inconsistent efforts. in the first game of the series, she showed how well she could play when she gives her all. Unfortunately, those games are far and few between.

I had suspicions that one of the reasons that Agler quit was because of Parker. It was less obvious with him, but seems to be clear the issues between her and Fisher. While no real fan of Fisher, I can see his point. You just can not rely on her with respect to which Parker is going to show up during games.

Regardless of Parker they still need to deal with the void at back up point and the lack of consistent scoring from the wing. They also better hope that Vadeeva comes back next season. After the way she was treated this season it would not surprise me if she didn't. The other players don't have that option, but a foreign player like her does not need the WNBA. Sparks were very stupid in that respect. They also need to look at Tolar's management as well.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/28/19 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And that doesn't even include Toler's signing of Riquna Williams ...

But Toler apparently is as secure as anyone can be in this business. I don't think she's terrible, necessarily, but I don't think she's great at her job either.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/28/19 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
And that doesn't even include Toler's signing of Riquna Williams ...

But Toler apparently is as secure as anyone can be in this business. I don't think she's terrible, necessarily, but I don't think she's great at her job either.


She's had a lot of success.

The Sparks have made the playoffs 18 times in her 20 seasons, and one of the misses was a blatant tank job. Five trips to the finals and three championships are included in that span.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/28/19 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ClayK wrote:
And that doesn't even include Toler's signing of Riquna Williams ...

But Toler apparently is as secure as anyone can be in this business. I don't think she's terrible, necessarily, but I don't think she's great at her job either.


She's had a lot of success.

The Sparks have made the playoffs 18 times in her 20 seasons, and one of the misses was a blatant tank job. Five trips to the finals and three championships are included in that span.


Both times they missed the playoffs the won the lottery and got a future MVP. That probably helped. Also, LA is a free agent magnet. WNBA players seem to all want to play there.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/28/19 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Toler's had a ton of good fortune.

* She inherited a 20 win/2nd best team in the league back in 1999 when she became the GM.

* LA's core was already in place before Toler became the Sparks GM...LA's top 4 scorers (Leslie,Mabika,DMJ,Dixon) from the back to back championship team was already on the roster.

* The biggest factor in LA winning those Chammpionships was Swoopes getting injured and Cooper retiring. Swoopes sat out the 2001 season after tearing her ACL and Cooper retired after the 2000 season.

* LA got two #1 pks in a 5 year span, both MVP's...and has only won 1 championship since drafting Candace.



1 Championship in 17 seasons.


Randy



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PostPosted: 09/28/19 11:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Two winning trips to the lottery. When you consider how many times teams like the Wings/Shock, Sky and Fever have been in the lottery and never won a No. 1 pick it does make you think that ping pong balls do a lousy job of distributing talent.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/28/19 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Two winning trips to the lottery. When you consider how many times teams like the Wings/Shock, Sky and Fever have been in the lottery and never won a No. 1 pick it does make you think that ping pong balls do a lousy job of distributing talent.


Three teams have combined for 48 percent of all of the Number One picks that have ever been made. Three. That doesn't sound like any kind of talent distribution I've ever heard of.

Although, curiously enough, those three teams have "only" combined for 30 percent of the championships.



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