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Trump seeks election help from foreign power...again
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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/21/19 9:02 am    ::: Trump seeks election help from foreign power...again Reply Reply with quote

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/politics/trump-whistle-blower-ukraine.html

Because of course he did.



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 09/23/19 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When all of the facts come out, it will be Joe Biden's skeletons who will be coming out of the closet, and possibly the end of his candidacy.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/23/19 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
When all of the facts come out, it will be Joe Biden's skeletons who will be coming out of the closet, and possibly the end of his candidacy.

You mean all the facts that have already been thoroughly investigated and found that Biden did absolutely nothing wrong? Yeah, have no worries about that at all. Not that I really care if anything ends Biden's chances at winning the nomination.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/23/19 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
When all of the facts come out, it will be Joe Biden's skeletons who will be coming out of the closet, and possibly the end of his candidacy.

You mean all the facts that have already been thoroughly investigated and found that Biden did absolutely nothing wrong? Yeah, have no worries about that at all. Not that I really care if anything ends Biden's chances at winning the nomination.


Biden, unlike Clinton, typically gets the benefit of the doubt. So it’s not taking down his candidacy.

But Donald’s second round of treason will likely be forgotten in a few days.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 09/23/19 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

True innocence dictates an expeditious turning over of the phone transcripts. If you're innocent, what's to hide? Like the tax returns....what's to hide? Don the Con and innocence are not acquainted.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/23/19 8:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
True innocence dictates an expeditious turning over of the phone transcripts. If you're innocent, what's to hide? Like the tax returns....what's to hide? Don the Con and innocence are not acquainted.


Yes, guilty until proven innocent is the American way...



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Howee



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PostPosted: 09/23/19 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Howee wrote:
True innocence dictates an expeditious turning over of the phone transcripts. If you're innocent, what's to hide? Like the tax returns....what's to hide? Don the Con and innocence are not acquainted.

Yes, guilty until proven innocent is the American way....
(....only said by OJ Simpson. Razz)

Who said anything about "guilty"? I'm projecting that ANYONE who's truly innocent of suspicions and allegations should be quite willing to corroborate that with clear and easily-obtained proof. Right?

YOU may have every confidence Trump might be incapable of wrongdoing till proven guilty, so maybe you can enlighten us on how a leader who repeatedly incriminates himself with highly suspect behaviors might be held accountable. And brief Pelosi on your ideas too, while yer at it.... Laughing



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/23/19 10:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Howee wrote:
True innocence dictates an expeditious turning over of the phone transcripts. If you're innocent, what's to hide? Like the tax returns....what's to hide? Don the Con and innocence are not acquainted.


Yes, guilty until proven innocent is the American way...

Well, no. There was a whistleblower charge against him that by federal law was supposed to go to Congress for oversight based upon the decision by the Inspector General. He is the one making a claim that there was nothing to it. He thus has the burden to prove that there was, in fact, nothing despite what the Inspector General determined. If his claim is true, he can release the transcripts and prove it. It's well within his power to do so.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
pilight wrote:
Howee wrote:
True innocence dictates an expeditious turning over of the phone transcripts. If you're innocent, what's to hide? Like the tax returns....what's to hide? Don the Con and innocence are not acquainted.


Yes, guilty until proven innocent is the American way...

Well, no. There was a whistleblower charge against him that by federal law was supposed to go to Congress for oversight based upon the decision by the Inspector General. He is the one making a claim that there was nothing to it. He thus has the burden to prove that there was, in fact, nothing despite what the Inspector General determined. If his claim is true, he can release the transcripts and prove it. It's well within his power to do so.


What he for sure has is the legal requirement to hand the complaint and findings over the Congress. There's no wiggle room in the law about this. Whoever in the administration who is not doing so should immediately be held in contempt of Congress and arrested.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TrumpChumps and facts not unlike oil and water.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
justintyme wrote:
pilight wrote:
Howee wrote:
True innocence dictates an expeditious turning over of the phone transcripts. If you're innocent, what's to hide? Like the tax returns....what's to hide? Don the Con and innocence are not acquainted.


Yes, guilty until proven innocent is the American way...

Well, no. There was a whistleblower charge against him that by federal law was supposed to go to Congress for oversight based upon the decision by the Inspector General. He is the one making a claim that there was nothing to it. He thus has the burden to prove that there was, in fact, nothing despite what the Inspector General determined. If his claim is true, he can release the transcripts and prove it. It's well within his power to do so.


What he for sure has is the legal requirement to hand the complaint and findings over the Congress. There's no wiggle room in the law about this. Whoever in the administration who is not doing so should immediately be held in contempt of Congress and arrested.

Exactly. The evidence that is coming out against him is very damning so far and his/his administration's actions blocking Congress from doing their legally mandated jobs is not a defense against this that one can then fairly point to by saying people are considering him "guilty until proven innocent". There is a due process procedure that is being circumvented, and if he chooses not to avail himself of this then people are going to be left to draw their conclusions based simply on the evidence that has been presented so far.

Everything that is coming out looks, very, very bad for Trump. From him using Rudy, his personal attorney, as his point person rather than working through offical channels, to him holding up a huge aid package right before the call, to the fact that the Inspector General thought the whistleblower complaint had legs and went so far as to notify Congress about the complaint after he was overruled by the Trump Administration, there is a lot of compelling circumstantial evidence that something untoward happened here. Now it's of course possible all of this is coincidental and just looks worse than it is, you know, the same way the whole Biden video that is making its rounds looks bad until you actually understand the context and why that prosecutor was being targeted, and how the Ukrainian president actually wanted him fired but needed added support, and how it was Obama's decision not Biden's, and how the EU leaders wanted the corrupt guy gone as well, and how he was not actively investigating the oligarch that employed Biden's son when he got fired and hadn't been for some time, and how one of the reasons for firing him was to get a prosecutor who would go after the oligarch...but, anyways, I digress. So while it could theoretically just be weird timing where it's all smoke and no fire, Trump's history with the truth is not one where you can just accept his word on anything. With this much smoke he needs to actively demonstrate that there is no fire. The fact that he's not just flaunting the transcripts of the phone call to show how the "fake media" got it wrong again (since that's his go-to move when he thinks he has a winning hand), and instead is going for misdirection "Hey, look over there at what Biden did! Pay no attention to that Orange Man behind the curtain!", would concern the hell out of me if I'm a Republican in Congress.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump confirms he withheld military aid from Ukraine, says he wants other countries to help pay

Quote:
President Trump confirmed Tuesday that he withheld military aid from Ukraine, saying he did so over his concerns that the United States was contributing more to Ukraine than European countries were.

“My complaint has always been, and I’d withhold again and I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine because they’re not doing it,” Trump told reporters at the United Nations General Assembly.

Trump was responding to reporting by The Washington Post that Trump told his acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney to hold back almost $400 million in military aid for at least a week before Trump spoke to the Ukrainian president.


Quote:
Trump has suggested he did bring up Biden during the call, but has dismissed allegations of anything untoward. He told reporters there would likely be a readout of the call released.

“It’s nonsense,” Trump said. “When you see the call, when you see the readout of the call, which I assume you’ll see at some point, that call was perfect, it couldn’t have been nicer.”

Trump repeated his contention that Biden is the one who should be investigated. The president and his allies have accused Biden of pressuring Ukraine in 2016 to fire its top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, to benefit his son.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-confirms-he-withheld-military-aid-from-ukraine-says-he-wants-other-countries-to-help-pay/ar-AAHMg2F?li=BBnb7Kz



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sambista



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 11:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
justintyme wrote:
pilight wrote:
Howee wrote:
True innocence dictates an expeditious turning over of the phone transcripts. If you're innocent, what's to hide? Like the tax returns....what's to hide? Don the Con and innocence are not acquainted.


Yes, guilty until proven innocent is the American way...

Well, no. There was a whistleblower charge against him that by federal law was supposed to go to Congress for oversight based upon the decision by the Inspector General. He is the one making a claim that there was nothing to it. He thus has the burden to prove that there was, in fact, nothing despite what the Inspector General determined. If his claim is true, he can release the transcripts and prove it. It's well within his power to do so.


What he for sure has is the legal requirement to hand the complaint and findings over the Congress. There's no wiggle room in the law about this. Whoever in the administration who is not doing so should immediately be held in contempt of Congress and arrested.


yeah, people need to wade through all the bullshit to get to this. this is what it comes down to, and this is all that matters.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 7:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
What he for sure has is the legal requirement to hand the complaint and findings over the Congress. There's no wiggle room in the law about this. Whoever in the administration who is not doing so should immediately be held in contempt of Congress and arrested.


Wrong. About almost everything. Because you, like almost everyone, have not read the law or the correspondence between the DNI and Schiff.

I'll try to clarify in a simple way.

The relevant statute says the DNI "shall" forward to Congress a whistleblower complaint if it contains an "urgent concern", which is a defined term. It means, among other requirements, that the complaint must be about a matter that is "an intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the Director of National Intelligence".

The DNI, in consultation and agreement with the DOJ, has determined and notified Congress that the matter does not involve conduct by a person within the Intelligence Community and does not involve an "intelligence matter" subject to the responsibility or authority of the DNI. Therefore, the DNI and DOJ have concluded this complaint is not required by the statute to be forwarded to Congress. Moreover, the DNI has further told Congress, even if the he wanted voluntarily to forward the complaint to Congress, he would have no authority to do so, under the express decisions of Presidents Clinton and Obama, because the complaint concerns confidential information subject to Constitutional legal privileges belonging to persons outside the ODNI.

You can read all the legal correspondence at a NYT link HERE.

No one is violating the law or going to jail. The statute expressly says that the actions of the DNI under the statute are not subject to judicial review. Being most charitable to the hyper-partisan Schiff, this is a difference of statutory interpretation between the DNI and DOJ, on the one hand, and Schiff on the other.

How any of this relates to an obscure private phone call between Trump and the president of the Ukraine, I know not. I suppose someone leaked that or made it up. If the complaint does relate to Trump, his actions are clearly not within responsibility or authority of the DNI and he does have all the Constitutional executive privileges that Clinton and Obama reserved as to whistleblower complaints.

Of course, Congress can impeach Trump regardless of whether the DNI ever forwards the alleged complaint to Congress.
GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 09/24/19 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
What he for sure has is the legal requirement to hand the complaint and findings over the Congress. There's no wiggle room in the law about this. Whoever in the administration who is not doing so should immediately be held in contempt of Congress and arrested.


Wrong. About almost everything. Because you, like almost everyone, have not read the law or the correspondence between the DNI and Schiff.

I'll try to clarify in a simple way.

The relevant statute says the DNI "shall" forward to Congress a whistleblower complaint if it contains an "urgent concern", which is a defined term. It means, among other requirements, that the complaint must be about a matter that is "an intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the Director of National Intelligence".

The DNI, in consultation and agreement with the DOJ, has determined and notified Congress that the matter does not involve conduct by a person within the Intelligence Community and does not involve an "intelligence activity" subject to the responsibility or authority of the DNI. Therefore, the DNI and DOJ have concluded this complaint is not required by the statute to be forwarded to Congress because it is not an "urgent concern". Moreover, the DNI has further told Congress, even if the he wanted voluntarily to forward the complaint to Congress, he would have no authority to do so, under the express decisions of Presidents Clinton and Obama, because the complaint concerns confidential information subject to Constitutional legal privileges belonging to persons outside the ODNI.

You can read all the legal correspondence at a NYT link HERE.

No one is violating the law or going to jail. The statute expressly says that the actions of the DNI under the statute are not subject to judicial review. Being most charitable to the hyper-partisan Schiff, this is a difference of statutory interpretation between the DNI and DOJ, on the one hand, and Schiff on the other.

How any of this relates to an obscure private phone call between Trump and the president of the Ukraine, I know not. I suppose someone leaked that or made it up. If the complaint does relate to Trump, his actions are clearly not within responsibility or authority of the DNI and he does have all the Constitutional executive privileges that Clinton and Obama reserved as to whistleblower complaints.

Of course, Congress can impeach Trump regardless of whether the DNI ever forwards the alleged complaint to Congress.
Howee



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 8:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ohhh. I get it now. Clearly, the authorities and legal guardians of democracy that are in place, on the scene, have egregiously flouted the obvious laws in ignorant ways that even a Rebkellian poster can recognize. Rolling Eyes

Parsing legalese is not my thing, but it certainly keeps hacks like Rudy G employed. If Trump's legal team is earning their keep, they've certainly been slow to dismiss all this as legal tomfoolery.

Speaking of Hacks, this one does an excellent job of sticking to The Script: "When asked about the idea that Trump did something wrong, repeat vociferously that Biden probably did the same thing." I'm curious....why didn't THIS guy spout the same logic: "I suppose someone leaked that or made it up."



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote








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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The criminals involved are in agreement that no crime has been committed and, as such, therefore no law broken. No one is violating the law or going to jail.

Next on FOX: why the Deep State continues to protect HRC from prosecution for her NYC Pizza Parlor child sex-slave trafficking ring...



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

President Trump is seeking intel on CrowdStrike... that's bad news for the DNC!


Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/ukraine-whistleblowers-lawyers-work-for-group-that-offers-to-pay-officials-who-leak-against-trump


justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That phone call memo is, in conjunction with what we already know, damning as can be. If that is their most favorable spin of these events...that does not bode well for the Trump Administration. He is almost certainly going to be impeached now.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The White House accidentally emailed its Ukraine talking points to Nancy Pelosi




They tried to recall it.



https://theweek.com/speedreads/867641/white-house-accidentally-emailed-ukraine-talking-points-nancy-pelosi



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sambista



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

what a whiny, punk-ass bitch.



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Apparently prior to the announcement, Donald called Pelosi and asked if “they could work something out.”

She told him his people can obey the law, then announced the official impeachment inquiry. Laughing



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sambista



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PostPosted: 09/25/19 6:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Apparently prior to the announcement, Donald called Pelosi and asked if “they could work something out.”

She told him his people can obey the law, then announced the official impeachment inquiry. Laughing


where'd you hear/read that, merc?

about the presser:

jeffrey toobin: "a torrent of lies.”

john king: "that was a somber, sulking president."

no, that was a whiny, punk-ass bitch.



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