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Who should win Rookie of the Year?
Napheesa Collier
54%
 54%  [ 32 ]
Asia Durr
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Arike Ogunbowale
38%
 38%  [ 23 ]
Jackie Young
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
someone else
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 59

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Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 08/19/19 4:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I really like Collier. She is going to be a very good player but IMO Arike is the reason why Dallas is not in last place. Despite all the defensive attention that she is getting she is still winning ballgames for them.

Next season with a healthy diggins her FG will be a lot better



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 08/19/19 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RAOY.

In the 2019 class of guards: most scoring, most clutch, most exhilarating, most frustrating, most inherently chucky, most necessarily chucky, most bowlingballee.
Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 08/19/19 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"The reason why Dallas is not in last place." Backhand full of knuckles on that compliment.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/19/19 10:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Ogunbowale is the second leading scorer in terms of PPG post All-Star and just won POW.

Is this still a discussion?


Not really more of a petition imo.



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
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PostPosted: 08/20/19 11:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
I really like Collier. She is going to be a very good player but IMO Arike is the reason why Dallas is not in last place. Despite all the defensive attention that she is getting she is still winning ballgames for them.

I see this argument all the time. But I think it ignores just how significant Collier is to the Lynx.

The Lynx win games when they can grind them out. They are not an "out shoot your opponent" team. They require solid, smart defenders. And Collier takes the top defensive assignments constantly (EDD, Howard, Charles, etc).

And the proof is out there as to just how important she is to the team. Go to the stats page and check out the on/off splits for Collier. The team's NetRTG is a team high +16.9 (holy shit!) points higher when she is on the floor versus when she is on the bench.

The Wings' NetRTG, for comparison sake, is actually 6.0 points higher when Arike is on the bench.

So, sure, Arike is helping her team not be in last place, but so is Collier. Without Collier, the Lynx are a sure fire lottery team, perhaps even bottom two. She is that important to their team this year.

Hot take: Collier is more important to the Lynx this year, and is carrying the team more (just in different ways) than Maya Moore was to the Lynx her rookie season.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/20/19 11:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't even think the take is that hot: Maya Moore is lowkey overrated.



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/20/19 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's more that the Lynx in Maya's rookie season had Augustus, Whalen and Brunson in their primes alongside her. Next to Collier, this year's Lynx has a somnambulant Fowles, a gunning Sims and meh.



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Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 08/20/19 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
It's more that the Lynx in Maya's rookie season had Augustus, Whalen and Brunson in their primes alongside her.


Both of those things can be true. IMO, they both are.



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NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: 08/20/19 9:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Arike has the lowest shooting percentage of anyone in the Top 19 in scoring.
Napheesa has taken the fewest shots of anyone in the Top 25.

On a per-game basis:

Arike has more points (by 4.4 per game), and more assists (0.4), and is slightly better on turnovers (0.2).

Napheesa has more rebounds (4.0), more steals(0.8 ), more blocks(0.8: Arike does not have a block), shooting percentage(9.3%), and is slightly better on 3 point percentage(0.5%).

For what it's worth, these stats amount to Napheesa outpointing Arike in fantasy points per game, 28.8 to 24.2. Smile

Collier's an elite defensive player who still puts up double figures in the scoring column. But Arike is dazzling, and we all know how the league values scoring in these awards. Arike also does not have Sylvia Fowles. This is going to be a very interesting race.


NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
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PostPosted: 08/20/19 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
It's at the very least become a more reasonable debate. Ogunbowale has improved month-on-month in virtually every meaningful statistical category. The shooting percentage is still poor, but the volume of threes and free throws mitigates it to some extent. She also seems to be gaining the 'narrative' lead with her improvement and people talking about her, while Collier has mostly faded into the background.

At this point I'm expecting both to get a bunch of votes, and voting for either seems within the bounds of being reasonable. There'll probably be a rogue vote or two for McCowan as well, but she hasn't played the minutes to really get involved.


I agree with everything you say here from start to finish.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
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PostPosted: 08/20/19 10:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
The who will win debate boxes us in too much into traditional and outdated stats for my tastes so I don't find it as interesting, YMMV, obviously.


This is exactly why the Monday Polls are always who should win.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
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PostPosted: 08/21/19 9:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2019/8/20/20812361/wnba-rookie-of-the-year-arike-napheesa-ogunbowale-collier-stats

Quote:
There’s still three weeks left for things to change, but this year’s Rookie of the Year vote appears to be clear-cut. A vote for Collier is a vote for the better player. A vote for Ogunbowale is a vote for the flashier one. The 2019 WNBA ROY debate is the apex of hoops fan arguments.



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 08/21/19 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2019/8/20/20812361/wnba-rookie-of-the-year-arike-napheesa-ogunbowale-collier-stats

Quote:
There’s still three weeks left for things to change, but this year’s Rookie of the Year vote appears to be clear-cut. A vote for Collier is a vote for the better player. A vote for Ogunbowale is a vote for the flashier one. The 2019 WNBA ROY debate is the apex of hoops fan arguments.

That's a pretty good way to sum up where we are sitting right now, imo.



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PostPosted: 08/21/19 9:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2019/8/20/20812361/wnba-rookie-of-the-year-arike-napheesa-ogunbowale-collier-stats

Quote:
There’s still three weeks left for things to change, but this year’s Rookie of the Year vote appears to be clear-cut. A vote for Collier is a vote for the better player. A vote for Ogunbowale is a vote for the flashier one. The 2019 WNBA ROY debate is the apex of hoops fan arguments.


Pretty biased article



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5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 08/21/19 3:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
sbnation.com/wnba/

Quote:

A vote for Collier is a vote for the better player.

A vote for Ogunbowale is a vote for the flashier one.


A vote for McCowan is a vote for already (!!) one of the best rebounders in the history of the WNBA.


Fighting Artichoke



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040



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PostPosted: 08/21/19 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another article on ROY: https://herosports.com/wnba/rookie-of-the-year-arike-ogunbowale-napheesa-collier-ruru


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