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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/10/19 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Ndour's been playing behind high salary veterans or high draft picks her entire career. This is why she doesn't get playing time.


Wait, it's money that determines playing time? Hamby and Wilson better swap minutes then.


Wilson was obviously a high draft pick and elite player.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 07/10/19 2:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Fair enough.however, McCowan was a lottery pick and Indiana had no real size at the center position. In the case of Anigwe. Connecticut traded away Chiney and have no real post depth. Tuck and Jones are the only other post players on the bench. Ndour has played on teams that had lots of post depth.

2014- Appel,Adams,Young,Alexander
2016- Appel,Hamby (1st rd pk) Alexander...Ndour did avg 14.9 mpg
2018- Dolson, Parker, Gabby experiment...Coach Stocks was hell bent on playing Gabby at PF.
2019- Dolson,Parker,Lavender...3 players making near max

There's no way in hell Gabby should've been playing PF ahead of Ndour.

C'mon man, that's not depth. That's having some players. Every team has some players. Appel was a place-filler who never scored and was a step away from being a stiff, Alexander was a nothing that a team just paid to go away, Adams was constantly getting benched for being out of shape or unable to defend a brick, Dolson was awful last year, Parker's taken 4+ years to finally round into being a viable WNBA player, Lavender was worthless for two years and they only traded for her after Wade saw how desperately he needed another post - these are all groups where there were minutes to be won if someone else played well enough.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/10/19 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with you. Most of these players are just above average, but the teams were/are heavily invested in them.

Lottery pks: Gabby,Coates,Young

High 1st rd pks: Alexander,Parker,Hamby,Appel

Adams made the AS game as a rookie

Dolson was part of the EDD trade.

Chicago traded a for Lavender (near max player).....You don't trade for near max players then sit them on the bench.


Ndour was a 2nd rd pk...........Adams had a great rookie season as a 2nd rd pk but San Antonio had no post depth. It was Young,Appel and T.Smith (last season)


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 07/10/19 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:

Chicago traded a for Lavender (near max player).....You don't trade for near max players then sit them on the bench.


Man, all these excuses to rationalize nonsense. You don't trade for a max player to come off the bench or you don't pay them max to come off the bench... because what's the difference?

Minnesota traded for max player Perkins to come off the bench. They intended Sims to come off the bench before Augustus got hurt. Guess what, she makes max. Three year max protected.

Now you'll say, "Those are guards! What I meant to say is nobody trades for a max money post player to come off the bench." Just stop it.

Lavender didn't get a max contract unearned, like you'd like Ndour to get. She played the most minutes in the league in 2015. She was 6th Woman of the year in 2016. It's not conceivable that Lavender is good in the starter's role, even better than Ndour?

So I would say, if Ndour has any chance to make anything close to max next year, she'd need to work herself up to the first post off the bench (with no excuses). She'd have to find a team that needs help in the post. Is CHI that team, I dunno? The team that sticks out to me is PHX, with Little retiring and Lyttle another year older.

Now I think AFO was poking around here because he might be interested in a replacement for Swords, but not at max money. He's probably looking to spent around what Swords is making now, like around $80K maybe a little more. That'd be a decent price point for Ndour as it stands.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/10/19 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

shades Laughing

1. You're overreacting to my comment about matching any Ndour contract offer which I clearly backtracked on after looking at the numbers.

2. You're taking my comment out of context. When said "no coach would sit a max player on the bench" after acquiring them. That means playing them limited minutes or not having them in the regular rotation. Wade traded for Lavender because he wanted to add depth to the frontline. Lavender was going to get 18-24 mpg regardless (starter, off bench) Sure, the Lynx did it with Perkins but they were already a title contender with a set starting 5, so they had nothing to lose. And even then, that money could've been spent more wisely (see post #3)

3. Different teams, different circumstances. The Lynx were one of the championship favorites with a great starting lineup. There was no chance of Perkins starting, nor should she. Perkins signing with Minny was a luxury, Chicago trading for Lavender was a necessity. And despite winning the Championship in 2017, Perkins was a nonfactor. In hindsight, Minnesota would've been better off spending that money on Howard.

4. As for the O.Sims trade/signing. Moore,Whalen,Wright and Brunson's contracts all came off the books. So the Lynx had plenty of money to spend. Augustus will play one or two more seasons at the most. Sims is still a relatively young player with good upside. Minnesota had to make this move for the future.


5. As for Ndour?...She's going to get a lot of offers during the offseason, same goes for copper.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 07/10/19 7:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
I clearly backtracked on after looking at the numbers.


Not a surprise.

zune69 wrote:
And despite winning the Championship in 2017, Perkins was a nonfactor. In hindsight, Minnesota would've been better off spending that money on Howard.


Of all the people you bold that for me like I don't know? You must have forgotten who was the only one protesting the trade.

But what does any of this have to do with you saying Ndour should get a max contract? Diversionary tactic?

I also think you may be confusing Perkins with TWright.

zune69 wrote:
As for the O.Sims trade/signing. Moore,Whalen,Wright and Brunson's contracts all came off the books. So the Lynx had plenty of money to spend. Augustus will play one or two more seasons at the most. Sims is still a relatively young player with good upside. Minnesota had to make this move for the future.


I know why the Lynx signed Sims. A good player fell into their lap at the perfect time. Doesn't happen too often. I was just pointing out your excuses for Ndour not being more prominent aren't valid. If Lexie Brown outplayed Sims, Lexie brown would get more minutes. If Ndour outplayed Lavender, then Ndour would get more minutes. Of course, Ndour has only played 13 minutes for Chicago this season, so I can see why you're all excited.

zune69 wrote:
As for Ndour?...She's going to get a lot of offers during the offseason, same goes for Copper.


Okay, that's what you should have said in the first place. A lot of time wasted over a hyperbole (max contract).

Powers is also up for a contract renewal. I'd pay her more than I would Copper, but neither is likely to get max. Every free agent can't get max, unless the new CBA really mixes things up, which I don't anticipate.

Of course, I was surprised that Hamby got a three year max deal, so you never know. Maybe that's why Laimbeer felt a need to bring in a separate GM. He was getting a little crazy with the big contracts and guaranteed deals. You saw what happened with Bone. Of course, Hamby is running through a wall for him and isn't complaining about being a role player, so there's that. She might be worth it.

Is Ndour going to run through a wall? Let's wait and see.



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 07/10/19 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The players that I am going to list now is my personal 2020 free agent wish list. Do I believe the Sky will get any of these players. Probably not! This wish list is for entertainment purposes only.
T. Hawkins
A. Powers
S. Diggins-Smith



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/24/19 4:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Don't remember if this has ever been posted:



stever



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 6746
Location: Ann Arbor


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PostPosted: 08/10/19 8:28 am    ::: Copper wants to stay with the Sky for the long haul. Reply Reply with quote

https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-sky-and-wnba/2019/8/9/20799216/guard-kahleah-copper-wants-to-stay-with-sky-for-the-long-haul?utm_campaign=chicago.suntimes&utm_content=entry&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 08/10/19 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Wade, who is also the Sky’s general manager, wouldn’t say much about the six players whose contracts expire after this season. “I like our roster,” he said multiple times.


Who knows what the new salary structure will look like.

2020
Signed
$117,000 Lavender
$110,000 ChParker
$ 59,000 DeSheilds
$ 59,000 GWilliams
$ 54,600 KLSamuelson
$ 43,400 CJackson

Restricted
Copper - Wants to return to team. Willing to work for cheap?
Faulkner - Too injury prone to demand a high salary. Too injury prone to let Sloot/Quig go.
Ndour - Hasn’t done enough to demand a high salary. Worth a middling salary?

Unrestricted
Vandersloot - Max
Quigley - Max to near max. If you let her go, will Vandersloot follow?
Dolson - Probably max the way she’s been playing this year.

First round pick
Approximately $50,000



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Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 7:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

@hoopfeed wrote:
Chicago Sky center Jantel Lavender to undergo surgery to repair a fracture in her left foot, an injury suffered in a game vs. Las Vegas, 8/9.
Surgery scheduled for 8/14. Expected recovery time is 8 to 9 weeks. #wnba



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 7:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lavender out for 8-9 weeks due to foot surgery.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 86
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 8:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Lavender out for 8-9 weeks due to foot surgery.


So for perhaps the rest of the season:

Vandersloot/Williams/Jackson
Quigley/Samuelson
DeShields/Copper
Ndour/Parker
Dolson

Injured: Lavender, Faulkner(?)

I’m guessing Gabby Williams will play a little 1, and a little 4. She’ll have her work cut out for her. The whole team will, really. Maybe someday she’ll get regular minutes at the 3...


mavcarter
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Damnit.



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Faulkner is out for an extended period, I'd expect Macaulay back on a series of 7-day contracts.



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Lavender out for 8-9 weeks due to foot surgery.


So for perhaps the rest of the season:

Vandersloot/Williams/Jackson
Quigley/Samuelson
DeShields/Copper
Ndour/Parker
Dolson

Injured: Lavender, Faulkner(?)

I’m guessing Gabby Williams will play a little 1, and a little 4. She’ll have her work cut out for her. The whole team will, really. Maybe someday she’ll get regular minutes at the 3...

They've also tried to use Samuelson at the 4 on occasion this season. Cutting Jackson, who's a complete waste of a roster spot at this point, and signing an actual post would also be an option.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My thoughts exactly if Chicago is serious about a playoff push.
But who is this post player that will be ready to contribute right away?

Rebekkah Brunson? That would be a crafty move.

Macauley would be the obvious easy choice, but how helpful would she be?

Is Cayla George still in the states?
Warley-Talbert didn’t seem terrible for the Liberty.
Kayla Alexander has gotta be better than nothing.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 11:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Lavender out for 8-9 weeks due to foot surgery.


So for perhaps the rest of the season:

Vandersloot/Williams/Jackson
Quigley/Samuelson
DeShields/Copper
Ndour/Parker
Dolson

Injured: Lavender, Faulkner(?)

I’m guessing Gabby Williams will play a little 1, and a little 4. She’ll have her work cut out for her. The whole team will, really. Maybe someday she’ll get regular minutes at the 3...

They've also tried to use Samuelson at the 4 on occasion this season. Cutting Jackson, who's a complete waste of a roster spot at this point, and signing an actual post would also be an option.


Wouldn’t cutting Jackson this late into the season mean still having to pay her, on top of whoever would be her roster replacement? If so, the Sky should only do it if the ownership really believes the team can contend this year. Only 4-5 other teams contending this year, and next year it looks like it’ll be harder to. This team continues to be the hardest to predict in what it does & how it does imo


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 11:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:

Wouldn’t cutting Jackson this late into the season mean still having to pay her, on top of whoever would be her roster replacement?

Yes, but a couple of 7-day contracts aren't exactly going to break the bank.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Please, Gabby at PF was/is a disaster. Ndour is more than capable of filling in for Lavender. This is her chance to prove what she can do. Ndour's a FA at the end of this season. So it's now or never.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Please, Gabby at PF was/is a disaster. Ndour is more than capable of filling in for Lavender. This is her chance to prove what she can do. Ndour's a FA at the end of this season. So it's now or never.

It'd require some pretty significant stepping up. She's basically been a complete waste of space since getting back from EuroBasket. Most of the minutes need to go to Parker and you hope she can be just as effective for 30 minutes a night as she has been for 19.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/14/19 1:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Please, Gabby at PF was/is a disaster. Ndour is more than capable of filling in for Lavender. This is her chance to prove what she can do. Ndour's a FA at the end of this season. So it's now or never.

It'd require some pretty significant stepping up. She's basically been a complete waste of space since getting back from EuroBasket. Most of the minutes need to go to Parker and you hope she can be just as effective for 30 minutes a night as she has been for 19.


I agree with Parker getting more minutes than Ndour, but Chicago will still need a third big to step up. Dolson and Parker are very foul prone.Not to mention, defensive liabilities against the more mobile players, especially in transition. That's where Ndour can step in and prove her worth. Ndour played 32 minutes in the previous game. She only shot 2-7. However, Ndour did have 4 block shots, was a +1 for the game and played her role in holding Candace Parker to 2-6 fg shooting.

Chicago's next 3 games are against teams that have mobile post players (LA,ATL,Wash)...Even if Dolson/Parker avg 55 minutes. That still leaves 25 minutes at the 4/5 positions that need to be filled. I think Ndour will average 22-26 minutes over the next 3 games....There's really no other option, unless Samuelson/Gabby can use their strengths to their advantage without getting killed on defense and overwhelmed on the boards.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 08/14/19 1:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Stormeo wrote:

Wouldn’t cutting Jackson this late into the season mean still having to pay her, on top of whoever would be her roster replacement?

Yes, but a couple of 7-day contracts aren't exactly going to break the bank.


True. I’ve never known how much rest-of-season contracts, and on that note 7-day contracts, pay out. Do players that end the season on the roster after one of those contracts get paid throughout the rest of the year like regular-contract WNBA players do?

Back to the Sky, how did Jackson stay on this roster after the guaranteed-contracts day if Williams ended up as the de facto backup PG and Faulkner was just about to be healthy (if she wasn’t already at that point, idr)? A head-scratching move, considering this roster was weirdly constructed with only 4 true post players instead of 5 (The Storm will run into the same issue if one of its posts gets injured, too). If any of the remaining 3 get injured or run into foul trouble in a given game, then things’ll realllllly get dicey.


Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 08/14/19 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lavender will miss the remainder of the season. Well, it was fun while it lasted. Let the good times roll! Cool



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PostPosted: 08/14/19 9:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Gabby was the trial by fire emergency backup PG that worked out better than expected. Whether they want to keep her in that position in the future is hard to say. I’ve always thought it was the potentially ideal position for her even before she was drafted.

I don’t think CHI will do 7-day contracts unless they are really unsure of who to bring in. They don’t have time to mess around. A player must be on the roster on August 26 to be available for the playoffs.



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