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PicknLOL



Joined: 16 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 08/12/19 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jap wrote:
For instance, black seed oil (also known as "cumin" in the Bible) and the the soursop fruit are known to fight and even cure cancer.

Such suggestions can be dangerous, because they can mislead someone to forgo life-saving cancer treatment that they needed, because they thought something else might help them. Untested and unproven products offering cancer treatment, whose effect is largely unknown, can be deadly to those who buy into them. Some of us can be terrible at how to approach dealing with our health, and can blindly trust everything we read on the Internet, ignore our doctors completely, and we can make decisions worse than Katie Smith when picking who to leave on the court, except in this case in the end we die.

Cambage can take her medication, or skip it to avoid the side-effects, or experiment with anything that shows any promise to help her without them. It's not place to judge that, but neither it is our place offer her advice when we are not mental health professionals, or haven't dealt with her health issue specifically. I'm pretty sure she already knows more about where and how she can get help than we can suggest, even if it hasn't worked as well as she would like.

Statements like she should do X, or she should do Y, imply we don't trust Liz to do what is best for herself, and that we do. We don't.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PicknLOL wrote:
jap wrote:
For instance, black seed oil (also known as "cumin" in the Bible) and the the soursop fruit are known to fight and even cure cancer.

Such suggestions can be dangerous, because they can mislead someone to forgo life-saving cancer treatment that they needed, because they thought something else might help them. Untested and unproven products offering cancer treatment, whose effect is largely unknown, can be deadly to those who buy into them. Some of us can be terrible at how to approach dealing with our health, and can blindly trust everything we read on the Internet, ignore our doctors completely, and we can make decisions worse than Katie Smith when picking who to leave on the court, except in this case in the end we die.

Cambage can take her medication, or skip it to avoid the side-effects, or experiment with anything that shows any promise to help her without them. It's not place to judge that, but neither it is our place offer her advice when we are not mental health professionals, or haven't dealt with her health issue specifically. I'm pretty sure she already knows more about where and how she can get help than we can suggest, even if it hasn't worked as well as she would like.

Statements like she should do X, or she should do Y, imply we don't trust Liz to do what is best for herself, and that we do. We don't.

This! So much this!

There are a myriad of accredited treatment options out there, some medication based others focused more on lifestyle changes, but the key is always to have trained and certified mental health professionals working with a person to find the right course of treatment.

The one suggestion from the outside that was offered that is a fair outsider perspective is Glenn's about sobriety. Because that is really good advice for anyone. Even if we don't listen.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
PicknLOL wrote:
jap wrote:
For instance, black seed oil (also known as "cumin" in the Bible) and the the soursop fruit are known to fight and even cure cancer.

Such suggestions can be dangerous, because they can mislead someone to forgo life-saving cancer treatment that they needed, because they thought something else might help them. Untested and unproven products offering cancer treatment, whose effect is largely unknown, can be deadly to those who buy into them. Some of us can be terrible at how to approach dealing with our health, and can blindly trust everything we read on the Internet, ignore our doctors completely, and we can make decisions worse than Katie Smith when picking who to leave on the court, except in this case in the end we die.

Cambage can take her medication, or skip it to avoid the side-effects, or experiment with anything that shows any promise to help her without them. It's not place to judge that, but neither it is our place offer her advice when we are not mental health professionals, or haven't dealt with her health issue specifically. I'm pretty sure she already knows more about where and how she can get help than we can suggest, even if it hasn't worked as well as she would like.

Statements like she should do X, or she should do Y, imply we don't trust Liz to do what is best for herself, and that we do. We don't.

This! So much this!

There are a myriad of accredited treatment options out there, some medication based others focused more on lifestyle changes, but the key is always to have trained and certified mental health professionals working with a person to find the right course of treatment.

The one suggestion from the outside that was offered that is a fair outsider perspective is Glenn's about sobriety. Because that is really good advice for anyone. Even if we don't listen.


I strongly agree with both of these comments.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One thing I'll add to this discussion is that one should never stop taking his or her medication without consultation with a mental health professional. And if there are side effects, consult with a mental health professional there as well. It clearly is a significant part of Liz's situation.



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
One thing I'll add to this discussion is that one should never stop taking his or her medication without consultation with a mental health professional. And if there are side effects, consult with a mental health professional there as well. It clearly is a significant part of Liz's situation.


If Liz is taking meds to even her moods out, akin to bipolar meds, rather than anti-depressants, I feel for her even more. We don't really have a medication that does that without side effects that really can bother people.

If you find the right anti-depressant for you, they aren't so bad for folks with depression or anxiety. But my step-son has autism and bi-polar and he talks CONSTANTLY about getting off his medication because they really do make him sleepy and numb. But yeah, the alternative of going without them is worse. Way worse. So he stays on them.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 3:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PicknLOL wrote:
jap wrote:
For instance, black seed oil (also known as "cumin" in the Bible) and the the soursop fruit are known to fight and even cure cancer.

Such suggestions can be dangerous, because they can mislead someone to forgo life-saving cancer treatment that they needed, because they thought something else might help them. Untested and unproven products offering cancer treatment, whose effect is largely unknown, can be deadly to those who buy into them. Some of us can be terrible at how to approach dealing with our health, and can blindly trust everything we read on the Internet, ignore our doctors completely, and we can make decisions worse than Katie Smith when picking who to leave on the court, except in this case in the end we die.

Cambage can take her medication, or skip it to avoid the side-effects, or experiment with anything that shows any promise to help her without them. It's not place to judge that, but neither it is our place offer her advice when we are not mental health professionals, or haven't dealt with her health issue specifically. I'm pretty sure she already knows more about where and how she can get help than we can suggest, even if it hasn't worked as well as she would like.

Statements like she should do X, or she should do Y, imply we don't trust Liz to do what is best for herself, and that we do. We don't.


This. Those so called miracle drugs saved my life. I will stick with those over alternative medicine.. its pretty dangerous to suggest/imply that those are the way to go for someone with cancer.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In the past week, there have been some comments about Liz in other threads that have ranged from critical to childish to nasty. I can't believe she's still having mud slung at her after reading that well-written, poignant article. I'm amazed that she's functioned as well as she has, and hope she finds better health in the future. And her comment about the WNBA teams needing a mental health professional on staff was spot on, particularly someone who travels with the team. The travel itself has to impose a heavy burden on one's existing relationship and communication with any previously established mental health professional.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
In the past week, there have been some comments about Liz in other threads that have ranged from critical to childish to nasty. I can't believe she's still having mud slung at her after reading that well-written, poignant article. I'm amazed that she's functioned as well as she has, and hope she finds better health in the future. And her comment about the WNBA teams needing a mental health professional on staff was spot on, particularly someone who travels with the team. The travel itself has to impose a heavy burden on one's existing relationship and communication with any previously established mental health professional.

The thing is, I applaud the article and the bravery to be open and honest about what she's dealing with. I have sympathy for her for having to handle all that alongside her profession. But I can also think that she acts like a petulant child a lot of the time and generally not like her attitude towards a lot of things. This stuff isn't mutually exclusive.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 3:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The thing is, I applaud the article and the bravery to be open and honest about what she's dealing with. I have sympathy for her for having to handle all that alongside her profession. But I can also think that she acts like a petulant child a lot of the time and generally not like her attitude towards a lot of things. This stuff isn't mutually exclusive.


I mean, I didn't want to be the first one to say it, but... yeah. Since when is having mental health issues carte blanche to be a jackass? And, unlike @Richyyy, I say this as someone who loves Cambage's attitude. Her "diva" behavior is very relevant to my interests, but to see the total one-eighty from everybody dogpiling on Cambage to this is, like, some galactic-level cognitive dissonance.



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 6:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
The thing is, I applaud the article and the bravery to be open and honest about what she's dealing with. I have sympathy for her for having to handle all that alongside her profession. But I can also think that she acts like a petulant child a lot of the time and generally not like her attitude towards a lot of things. This stuff isn't mutually exclusive.


I mean, I didn't want to be the first one to say it, but... yeah. Since when is having mental health issues carte blanche to be a jackass? And, unlike @Richyyy, I say this as someone who loves Cambage's attitude. Her "diva" behavior is very relevant to my interests, but to see the total one-eighty from everybody dogpiling on Cambage to this is, like, some galactic-level cognitive dissonance.


Mental illness can absolutely be the cause of jackass behavior. But we have no idea how much of a person’s bad behavior is uncontrollable and how much is plain old lousy choices. It’s pretty complex.

But a friend of mine who worked as a disability advocate, has MS and is in a wheelchair says to never excuse bad behavior by people with disabilities. Mental or physical disability, it doesn’t matter. They deserve access and reasonable assistance, not pity or special treatment. She said that excusing bad behavior does them zero favors. So there is that as well.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 9:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's an interesting point, and a complex one ...

Everyone's brain operates somewhat differently, and some people have problems that make it hard for them to live up to the norms of society.

At what point, though, does a differently operating brain make abnormal/unusual behavior acceptable and excusable?

One could argue that most murderers are, by definition, mentally unbalanced -- so therefore are their actions to be excused?

On another level, my granddaughter is slightly autistic. Does that mean we shouldn't try to teach her how to behave more appropriately and if necessary, apply some kind of reward/punishment to help her fit into society more easily? Or do we just say "Oh, that's how she is" and let it go?

Nothing simple here ...



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
I mean, I didn't want to be the first one to say it, but... yeah. Since when is having mental health issues carte blanche to be a jackass? And, unlike @Richyyy, I say this as someone who loves Cambage's attitude. Her "diva" behavior is very relevant to my interests, but to see the total one-eighty from everybody dogpiling on Cambage to this is, like, some galactic-level cognitive dissonance.


Re "everybody dogpiling on Cambage"... I'd say you should be a little more careful with your generalizations. I, for one, haven't done a "total one-eighty" on Liz Cambage because I don't know all that much about her past. I never, ever, said a critical word about any of her past behavior. So my praise for her courage in writing what she did is NOT a total one-eighty. It isn't even one percent different from any previous statement I've made since there were none.

Did everyone else here who's praised Cambage's article trash her in the past? I can't answer that, but I doubt it.


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Re "everybody dogpiling on Cambage"... I'd say you should be a little more careful with your generalizations. I, for one, haven't done a "total one-eighty" on Liz Cambage because I don't know all that much about her past. I never, ever, said a critical word about any of her past behavior. So my praise for her courage in writing what she did is NOT a total one-eighty. It isn't even one percent different from any previous statement I've made since there were none.

Did everyone else here who's praised Cambage's article trash her in the past? I can't answer that, but I doubt it.

Man, get out of my face with your #NotAllMen/Posters bulldaggle. Ain't nobody got time for that.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Re "everybody dogpiling on Cambage"... I'd say you should be a little more careful with your generalizations. I, for one, haven't done a "total one-eighty" on Liz Cambage because I don't know all that much about her past. I never, ever, said a critical word about any of her past behavior. So my praise for her courage in writing what she did is NOT a total one-eighty. It isn't even one percent different from any previous statement I've made since there were none.

Did everyone else here who's praised Cambage's article trash her in the past? I can't answer that, but I doubt it.

Man, get out of my face with your #NotAllMen/Posters bulldaggle. Ain't nobody got time for that.


You sure are good at talking about "everybody" and "nobody." Smile

P.S. I detest #NotAllMen statements.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 12:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
The thing is, I applaud the article and the bravery to be open and honest about what she's dealing with. I have sympathy for her for having to handle all that alongside her profession. But I can also think that she acts like a petulant child a lot of the time and generally not like her attitude towards a lot of things. This stuff isn't mutually exclusive.


I mean, I didn't want to be the first one to say it, but... yeah. Since when is having mental health issues carte blanche to be a jackass? And, unlike @Richyyy, I say this as someone who loves Cambage's attitude. Her "diva" behavior is very relevant to my interests, but to see the total one-eighty from everybody dogpiling on Cambage to this is, like, some galactic-level cognitive dissonance.





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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 12:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Re "everybody dogpiling on Cambage"... I'd say you should be a little more careful with your generalizations. I, for one, haven't done a "total one-eighty" on Liz Cambage because I don't know all that much about her past. I never, ever, said a critical word about any of her past behavior. So my praise for her courage in writing what she did is NOT a total one-eighty. It isn't even one percent different from any previous statement I've made since there were none.

Did everyone else here who's praised Cambage's article trash her in the past? I can't answer that, but I doubt it.

Man, get out of my face with your #NotAllMen/Posters bulldaggle. Ain't nobody got time for that.


You sure are good at talking about "everybody" and "nobody." :-)


If a generalization applies (and this one did), then I'm going to use it. And I'm not going to dilute my statement with BS qualifiers, to make it clear that, by "everybody," I don't mean literally one hundred percent of the posters on the message board, just so as not to upset headasses who either can't grasp nuance, or are being willfully obtuse.

You have posted intelligently enough on other subjects that I refuse to believe that you didn't know what I meant. And, if you haven't participated in the dogpile, then you should have known that I wasn't talking about you.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
The thing is, I applaud the article and the bravery to be open and honest about what she's dealing with. I have sympathy for her for having to handle all that alongside her profession. But I can also think that she acts like a petulant child a lot of the time and generally not like her attitude towards a lot of things. This stuff isn't mutually exclusive.


I mean, I didn't want to be the first one to say it, but... yeah. Since when is having mental health issues carte blanche to be a jackass? And, unlike @Richyyy, I say this as someone who loves Cambage's attitude. Her "diva" behavior is very relevant to my interests, but to see the total one-eighty from everybody dogpiling on Cambage to this is, like, some galactic-level cognitive dissonance.


I agree about the cognitive dissonance, but to be fair, the posters who made the recent snide remarks in other threads about Cambage needing "rest" have stayed out of this thread. The name-calling and criticism here is from a different group.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 2:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The thing is, I applaud the article and the bravery to be open and honest about what she's dealing with. I have sympathy for her for having to handle all that alongside her profession. But I can also think that she acts like a petulant child a lot of the time and generally not like her attitude towards a lot of things. This stuff isn't mutually exclusive.


I agree.

Similarly, I had sympathy for Chamique Holdsclaw and her battle with depression. But the fact remains she left her teammates -- multiple franchises -- without any warning, heads up, or notification.

In the employment context, suffering from mental illness/disorders or having mental health issues may qualify for protection under the Americans with Disabilities Act and/or the Family and Medical Leave Act. However, suffering from such medical conditions does not alleviate an employee's obligation to comply with an employer's attendance/notification policies, in terms of conveying absences.


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 6:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I agree about the cognitive dissonance, but to be fair, the posters who made the recent snide remarks in other threads about Cambage needing "rest" have stayed out of this thread. The name-calling and criticism here is from a different group.


Fair enough. In a way, I guess that's how you know that the #HateHard is real: at least @Richyyy had the integrity to be like, "I have empathy for what Liz is going through, but I still don't fuck with her." These other cats, apparently, can't even offer that bare minimum token amount of empathy.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 10:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marvelous courage.

Probably not likely ANYONE here isn't touched, in some way, by some one who's a lot like Liz. I am.

And while "Mental Health" concerns aren't new, the burgeoning of open conversations are very late in coming along....but thankfully, they ARE and will continue to do so.

How many sports professionals--in any sport--have demonstrated such self-revealing candor? Chamique may have been one of the highest profile players, but there've been others. Venus Lacey had a rough time, as I recall.

And honestly, isn't there a good chance many CURRENT players face demons like Liz has? The pressures are incredible. I hope that Liz's candor will help others in all walks of life to realize the importance of NOT feeling shame, and viewing it for what it is: a condition that does NOT have to mean a life of darkness and unhappiness.



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 10:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Marvelous courage.

Probably not likely ANYONE here isn't touched, in some way, by some one who's a lot like Liz. I am.

And while "Mental Health" concerns aren't new, the burgeoning of open conversations are very late in coming along....but thankfully, they ARE and will continue to do so.

How many sports professionals--in any sport--have demonstrated such self-revealing candor? Chamique may have been one of the highest profile players, but there've been others. Venus Lacey had a rough time, as I recall.

And honestly, isn't there a good chance many CURRENT players face demons like Liz has? The pressures are incredible. I hope that Liz's candor will help others in all walks of life to realize the importance of NOT feeling shame, and viewing it for what it is: a condition that does NOT have to mean a life of darkness and unhappiness.


Well said.


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