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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 08/12/19 7:08 pm ::: |
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"I understand you're a rookie trying to come in and be physical," Griner said. "I'm cool with people that play physical. Me and Syl (Sylvia Fowles) play physical against each other. Me and Liz (Cambage) play physical against each other. But it never escalates. Like we don't throw cheap shots at each other. I might catch an elbow in the rib when Syl is posting up, but I know it's not malicious.
"With (Anigwe), I don't know. She just does way too much. I don't know if she's trying to make a name for herself in the league because she definitely made a name as a runner like run for it. That's the only name she has now." |
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miller40
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| Posted: 08/12/19 8:15 pm ::: |
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So, she’s threatening the league to stay home if she gets a suspension she thinks is overdone?
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Shades
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jmpenn90
Joined: 09 May 2008
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jmpenn90
Joined: 09 May 2008
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| Posted: 08/12/19 9:01 pm ::: |
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| I say give those that came off the bench 1 game since you have to and the other 3 two games and move on. Unless they think either of the two Dallas players was trying to instigate it then give them 3 or 4 games
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/12/19 9:26 pm ::: |
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| miller40 wrote: |
So, she’s threatening the league to stay home if she gets a suspension she thinks is overdone? |
It's not about the suspension, it's about how they are officiating the posts. They seriously let players like Griner and Fowles get beat up down there. And it's not just physical play, but blatantly illegal things that they just let slide. After a while I'm sure the frustration has just gotten to the point where she is asking "why?". I mean, why bother with a league that frustrates the crap out of you and doesn't pay you shit compared to what you make overseas; why not just rest and save yourself the headache?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/12/19 9:35 pm ::: |
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They get beaten up in FIBA play all over the world as well. It's not like this is something unique to the WNBA. It's really hard to officiate posts like Griner and Cambage - who also initiate a hell of a lot of contact themselves - without turning the sport into netball.
| jmpenn90 wrote: |
| I say give those that came off the bench 1 game since you have to and the other 3 two games and move on. Unless they think either of the two Dallas players was trying to instigate it then give them 3 or 4 games |
I'm honestly surprised by how much I'm seeing opinions like this, but it does seem to be a pretty widely held view. Personally, I feel like Griner deserves a fair bit more. She charged half the length of the court with what clearly appeared to be the intent to beat the shit out of an opponent. It took a big group of people to corral her and she kept on pushing and swinging even then. To me that's more than two games. |
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 08/12/19 10:09 pm ::: |
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| Seriously a Homer here, but the stop action show Griners arm sliding right up the arm of Anigwe to where her elbow ends up at Anigwe’s throat. That is not normal on a rebound. She pulls her left hand up knowing she got a little extra contact to fearful of getting the foul before the ensuing rampage. As for the pull on the arm, it was that. Had Anigwe played crack the whip with her arm and rotated the opposite way then there would be a chance of an anterior dislocation. Watching this, I further am convinced that Griner plays dirty. You want protection keep your arms down where they belong. It’s a 4-5 inch difference, it’s not that hard to keep your arms off her head and neck. Her article basically says she was coming in with an axe to grind.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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| Posted: 08/12/19 11:00 pm ::: |
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| Skyfan22 wrote: |
| Seriously a Homer here, but the stop action show Griners arm sliding right up the arm of Anigwe to where her elbow ends up at Anigwe’s throat. That is not normal on a rebound. She pulls her left hand up knowing she got a little extra contact to fearful of getting the foul before the ensuing rampage. As for the pull on the arm, it was that. Had Anigwe played crack the whip with her arm and rotated the opposite way then there would be a chance of an anterior dislocation. Watching this, I further am convinced that Griner plays dirty. You want protection keep your arms down where they belong. It’s a 4-5 inch difference, it’s not that hard to keep your arms off her head and neck. Her article basically says she was coming in with an axe to grind. |
Well I am not a homer and have never been a fan of Anigwe, but after viewing the video in slo-mo I am going to do a 180 reversal and say it was actually Griner who instigated the altercation. Anigwe's downward swing with her arm is actually her trying to defend herself from Griner actions. You can clearly see that that swing is taking place at the same time she is backing up. If you look you can see Griners right arm fully extended in Anigwe's direction. Under normal circumstances it should not be extended like that. It appears that she was already in swing at Anigwe mode, but Anigwe's backing up resulted in a miss.
As to her remarks about Thornton. Thornton never once swung at her, she was just placing herself in between her and her attempted assualt against Anigwe. In fact Griner is attempting to hit her the entire time over the official. Her anger was only fueled by Griners swings at her. The slow-mo puts the entire exchange between Anigwe and Griner into a different light. Anigwe appears to be trying to separate herself from Griner the entire time.
Griners attempt at league blackmail should not be tolerated. Listen other players get the crap knocked out of them all the time and they are not exclusiively post players. However, when you play in the post that happens a bit more. That is why also some taller but slender players in college no longer want to play in the post but, rather are developing some outside slills. When you have the body of Griner and can not really handle physical play, that is the smart thing to do. It gets physical in the post and you really can not do much about it except via favoritism.
I also find it interesting that she brings up Fowles , a player who really does play borderline dirty most of the time. She gets away with setting quite a few illegal picks against unsuspecting guards. I also do not think Sylva's elbows are as accidental as Griner claims. It's probably because she is trying to mitigate her own constant use of elbows and forearms as she did in this incident. She starts low and then rides them up into the neck area.
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WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
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| Posted: 08/13/19 12:17 am ::: |
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| This whole thing is crazy! It is great to hear everyone's opinion. The one thing i'll add is, thank God for Izzy. If not for her, we would be looking at a totally different thing and having a really different conversation.
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PicknLOL
Joined: 16 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 08/13/19 3:09 am ::: |
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| Griner lost her temper in the fourth quarter Saturday after Dallas rookie Kristine Anigwe yanked her arm and struck her in the head. |
Hmm. That's the first article I've read to put that information outside of a quote. Leliani Mitchell was quoted earlier that Anigwe punched Griner in the head, of course.
With the bad angle, terrible League Pass resolution, and the distance from the camera, there's a point that looks like Anigwe punching Griner before anything has happened (the moment after she pulled her arm), but from the video my eyes can't tell if it is that, or shoving, or Anigwe putting her hands forward to protect herself. I assumed Mitchell was more or less telling the truth, because Anigwe didn't do anything ejection-worthy afterwards, on camera at least (announcers did say she needed to be restrained, but the only one from Dallas restrained on camera at the time was Thornton, and perhaps Kaela Davis), but that's the first time someone cites this as a fact.
So, Anigwe did punch Griner?
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 08/13/19 9:41 am ::: |
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To me, whatever that's worth, Griner's arm more or less inadvertently moved up near Anigwe's head and neck and made contact. Anigwe responded by grabbing Griner's arm and swinging her away from the hoop -- which is an escalation, to be sure, but somewhat understandable.
Then Griner goes off, again somewhat understandably, and Anigwe responds by working on her top-speed backpedal.
It could be that looser officiating in the post area this season has led to this kind of incident, but as has been pointed out, that's a difficult area of the floor to officiate and you don't want stars fouling out on contact no one except the refs can really see.
We'll see if they tighten up on physicality in the paint for the rest of the season ...
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 08/13/19 10:03 am ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| miller40 wrote: |
So, she’s threatening the league to stay home if she gets a suspension she thinks is overdone? |
It's not about the suspension, it's about how they are officiating the posts. They seriously let players like Griner and Fowles get beat up down there. And it's not just physical play, but blatantly illegal things that they just let slide. After a while I'm sure the frustration has just gotten to the point where she is asking "why?". I mean, why bother with a league that frustrates the crap out of you and doesn't pay you shit compared to what you make overseas; why not just rest and save yourself the headache? |
A couple of years ago, Purdue had a senior center named Isaac Haas. Haas was one of the biggest men I have ever seen. Not just tall at 7'2 but also 300 pounds. He got absolutely beaten up by illegal hit after illegal hit after illegal hold whenever he was on the court. At one point Coach Matt Painter was sending weekly tape to the Big Ten of uncalled fouls against him. Because of his size, refs either refused to call fouls against him consistently or just never could figure out how to do it.
Flash forward to the NCAA tournament. Purdue had spent much of the season in the Top 5 and were serious contenders to win the championship. They had the best senior class in college basketball (this was the year between Caleb Swanigan and Carsen Edwards being All-Americans). In the first round, a player from Cal-State Fullerton basically throw Haas to the ground. He had been manhandled all season (his whole career), and they had seen the tape, so why not guard him the same way. Well, this time he was thrown down on his elbow and broke it. As a serious contender to win a championship during his senior year.
I say this because I see similarities in the way big players get guarded. I understand wanting to keep the game flowing and that you can't call every bit of contact, but if you don't players get hurt and it affects the outcomes of seasons.
Also, Haas never chased someone down the court to punch them, so there is that ...
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/13/19 10:04 am ::: |
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| miller40 wrote: |
So, she’s threatening the league to stay home if she gets a suspension she thinks is overdone? |
I think Griner plays as long as Taurasi & Bonner are still there. Maybe she waits until 2021 to sit out? 2020 might be Taurasi's final season. Griner sits out in 2021 and Bonner goes elsewhere? Full tank mode for 2022?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/13/19 10:24 am ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| miller40 wrote: |
So, she’s threatening the league to stay home if she gets a suspension she thinks is overdone? |
It's not about the suspension, it's about how they are officiating the posts. They seriously let players like Griner and Fowles get beat up down there. And it's not just physical play, but blatantly illegal things that they just let slide. After a while I'm sure the frustration has just gotten to the point where she is asking "why?". I mean, why bother with a league that frustrates the crap out of you and doesn't pay you shit compared to what you make overseas; why not just rest and save yourself the headache? |
A couple of years ago, Purdue had a senior center named Isaac Haas. Haas was one of the biggest men I have ever seen. Not just tall at 7'2 but also 300 pounds. He got absolutely beaten up by illegal hit after illegal hit after illegal hold whenever he was on the court. At one point Coach Matt Painter was sending weekly tape to the Big Ten of uncalled fouls against him. Because of his size, refs either refused to call fouls against him consistently or just never could figure out how to do it.
Flash forward to the NCAA tournament. Purdue had spent much of the season in the Top 5 and were serious contenders to win the championship. They had the best senior class in college basketball (this was the year between Caleb Swanigan and Carsen Edwards being All-Americans). In the first round, a player from Cal-State Fullerton basically throw Haas to the ground. He had been manhandled all season (his whole career), and they had seen the tape, so why not guard him the same way. Well, this time he was thrown down on his elbow and broke it. As a serious contender to win a championship during his senior year.
I say this because I see similarities in the way big players get guarded. I understand wanting to keep the game flowing and that you can't call every bit of contact, but if you don't players get hurt and it affects the outcomes of seasons.
Also, Haas never chased someone down the court to punch them, so there is that ... |
I'd like to see the League/Commissioner say, when announcing the suspensions that come from all of this, that they've heard the concerns recently expressed by their players and coaches, and will be looking at the amount of punishment players take in the paint and whether they need to change the rules or the instructions to the referees to improve the situation. At least pay lip-service to the idea that you're doing something about what they're talking about, or at least looking into whether you need to. Then bring the "but we cannot accept or tolerate what happened on Saturday night..." section. |
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/13/19 10:31 am ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
Also, Haas never chased someone down the court to punch them, so there is that ... |
Yeah, getting beat down in the post doesn't excuse that sort of behavior. It just provides context that makes it more understandable, that it didn't just come out of the blue and was a slow burn of mounting frustration over numerous games and that these last two against Anigwe was just the fuse hitting the ignition point.
And as much as it's become a bit of a social media meme, Anigwe's turning rabbit actually added to the dramatics of this. I mean there is a reason she is facing quite a bit of scorn from the other players (even those not involved--like Janel McCarville blasted her on twitter for it) for basically taking a pot shot and then not being willing to face the ramifications. If she doesn't run, then you have a pretty traditional dust up with a couple of punches thrown, players and coaches get between them, they get ejected, suspended, life goes on. The things that happen multiple times a year in the NBA, NFL, etc.
This is more dramatic because you have Griner being forced to chase down her target, which is just escalating the situation as her frustration mounts.
I guess this is a long way of saying, yeah, I've never seen a player chase down someone across the court like that...because I've never actually seen someone run away before after starting a sports fight.
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mmaniac
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shontay33
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
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| Posted: 08/13/19 11:20 am ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| miller40 wrote: |
So, she’s threatening the league to stay home if she gets a suspension she thinks is overdone? |
It's not about the suspension, it's about how they are officiating the posts. They seriously let players like Griner and Fowles get beat up down there. And it's not just physical play, but blatantly illegal things that they just let slide. After a while I'm sure the frustration has just gotten to the point where she is asking "why?". I mean, why bother with a league that frustrates the crap out of you and doesn't pay you shit compared to what you make overseas; why not just rest and save yourself the headache? |
She may want to consider staying home for the summer then because nothing is going to change. If you are the face of the franchise, you have to keep your cool. As others have stated, there have been various posts that get beat up all the time. There are guards and forward who drive to the basket,clearly get fouled to the point where they slide in to the front row of seats under the basket and get no call. The do not go after another player. They go to the officials because they should make the call and have control the game!! The down side to this whole ordeal is that now, the game will be out of the players hands and in the hands of the officials. Do not be surprised if there are lots of calls made that normally will not and the game slows down because according to BG and DT, the officials let the game get out of hand. Be careful what you ask for. A ticky tack foul that would normally not be called could impact the flow of the game.
In my opinion, for years the Mercury always have something going on to where they are affected by suspensions because of the decisions of some of the players. It starts with the leadership or lack thereof.
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PicknLOL
Joined: 16 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 08/13/19 11:28 am ::: |
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Curious – perhaps in a good way – to see January is not included in the suspended list. Even though she left the bench during the incident, she did not contribute to it in any fashion, unlike Taurasi or Bonner who were not helping, so that seems about right.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 08/13/19 11:39 am ::: |
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Griner - 3 games
Anigwe - 2 games
Thorton - 2 games
Taurasi- 1 game + $500 fine
Davis - 1 game + $500 fine
Bonner- $500 for escalating incident.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/13/19 11:51 am ::: |
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| Dallas will have just 7 players for their next game. Phoenix just 8 unless one of their injured players are ready(Smith, Lyttle, Carson).
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08/13/19 11:51 am ::: |
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| PicknLOL wrote: |
Curious – perhaps in a good way – to see January is not included in the suspended list. Even though she left the bench during the incident, she did not contribute to it in any fashion, unlike Taurasi or Bonner who were not helping, so that seems about right. |
It essentially contravenes their own rule book, but I dont particularly object to it. Once everything's going nuts, generally ambling towards the swarm of people doesn't seem like a particularly big deal. |
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 08/13/19 11:54 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Dallas will have just 7 players for their next game. |
No they won't. You're required by rule to have at least eight, hence why Davis won't be suspended until Sunday when the other two are back. |
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 08/13/19 12:32 pm ::: |
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| shontay33 wrote: |
She may want to consider staying home for the summer then because nothing is going to change. |
That's exactly what she's saying here...
But her point isn't *missed* calls. It isn't comparable to guards driving and sometimes getting a call and sometimes not. Her frustration was with the way the game is being intentionally officiated. Specifically about what sort of co tact they are going to allow players to use on her before it is considered "foul worthy". And it isn't just her that has spoken about these frustrations.
Cheryl Reeve has gone off on numerous occasions about how Slyvia Fowles is basically being murdered in the post and refs are telling her "not enough contact for a foul", about how she gets hooked and shoved with two hands (two hands is supposed to be a foul) but the refs allow it even though they saw it.
And Bill Laimbeer actually went to the league to ask them if they had issued a mandate to the refs to issue less fouls because of what he has seen with Cambage (the league denied any mandate to the refs).
When you have the league's three most dominant centers and their coaches/teammates all saying the exact same thing, it's probably pretty safe to assume there is a pretty solid issue happening right now...one that's even worse than the long standing issues that refs have had trying to officiate these types of players.
That being said, of course Griner needs to keep her head better. You can't let your frustrations, no matter how warranted, get the better of you and cost your team your services for 3 games. Unless of course it moves you out of the playoffs and instead of being one and done you end up with Sabrina instead. Then....😂😂😂
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Libra_Girl
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| Posted: 08/13/19 2:24 pm ::: |
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It all started off with when both BG & Anigwe were fighting for postion in the post & they both ended with elbows on each other's neck area it seems at the same time. After that BG had her arm out boxing out & Kristine yank it which thankfully BG didnt get hurt because she easily could have be. From watching the gm it was hard to see if BG react to having her arm pulled rightfully or if Kistine took a swing on her head.
KT really had no business running up on BG & trying to fight her.
All 3 deserve the same suspension imo.
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