RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Democratic Presidential Primary Candidates 2020
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16 ... 22, 23, 24  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/03/19 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:

Kamala Harris, Glenn, has LIVED something you never have nor will re: segregation and busing, am I right? Your hour's research doesn't entitle you to diminish her experience. And her experience DOES entitle her to call out Joe in the way she did.


In what way did Kamala Harris experience "segregation"?

segregation: the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment.




Last edited by tfan on 07/03/19 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/03/19 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

Yang has accused NBC of cutting off his mic.


While selective cutting off mikes really sucks, I would favor cutting off everyone's mike when they aren't called on and then cutting it off when they don't respond to a warning they have gone over. But voters do rely on how much "alpha dog" the politicians display by cutting in when they aren't supposed to be talking. People don't have politeness as an admirable quality in a politician.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/03/19 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The first post debate poll from Quinnipiac also show Biden, Sanders, and O'Rourke losing ground while Harris gains. This poll also show a drop for Buttigieg and a rise for Booker. Everyone else is within a point of the last poll.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2631


Disappointed that Gillibrand didn't move up as I heard her call for publicly funded elections. I hate seeing articles now about how "donors are responding" to this or that politician and money is flowing in and different war chests are being reported. I also would like to have seen Tulsi Gabbard go up as she is fond of using the term "chickenhawk" with regard to our past cheerleaders for distant bomb dropping and invasion.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7862
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/03/19 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:

Kamala Harris, Glenn, has LIVED something you never have nor will re: segregation and busing, am I right? Your hour's research doesn't entitle you to diminish her experience. And her experience DOES entitle her to call out Joe in the way she did.


In what way did Kamala Harris experience "segregation"?

segregation: the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment.

That's literally what this whole thing was about...

The schools (thus the neighborhoods) at that time were de facto segregated and the quality of education was lower in the non-white schools. So the school district instituted bussing to integrate the schools. It's not the same problem they had in the south where the laws enforced segregation and people were drinking from separate fountains, but it still was a significant issue.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:

Kamala Harris, Glenn, has LIVED something you never have nor will re: segregation and busing, am I right? Your hour's research doesn't entitle you to diminish her experience. And her experience DOES entitle her to call out Joe in the way she did.


In what way did Kamala Harris experience "segregation"?

segregation: the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment.

That's literally what this whole thing was about...

The schools (thus the neighborhoods) at that time were de facto segregated and the quality of education was lower in the non-white schools. So the school district instituted bussing to integrate the schools. It's not the same problem they had in the south where the laws enforced segregation and people were drinking from separate fountains, but it still was a significant issue.


Segregation doesn't appear to be the correct term as 'enforced' is a key part of the definition. And race isn't the issue. It was just normal income grouping. The schools weren't worse in the non-white areas because they didn't hand out the same textbooks and didn't have teachers up in front of the class teaching. It is because the one area had more educated parents who had different standards with regard to education and learning and thus, so did their kids. Would have been the same if the poorer neighborhoods were all white. Although possibly made worse there due to Spanish-only students and/or parents in the poor Berkeley areas.

When they try the idea of - in the same high school - mixing classes without regard to previous performance or standardized tests in the hope that the poorer students will do better, they get the reverse. I witnessed that first hand in my high school. It was an all-white school that (probably based on policies developed in mixed race areas) decided to stop segregating classes based on demonstrated abilities. As a result the curriculum was dumbed down which included new non-traditional subjects like lawnmower repair. Instead of the poorer students working harder to keep up, the better students slacked off. I saw this repeated in a TV documentary on a Berkeley high school doing the same thing. Teachers happily embraced it and then later were perplexed as to "how do I teach the kids of illegal aliens and the kids of Berkeley professors in the same class?" Busing would work if you bused the good students to a school and the bad students to another. And the mediocre students to a third.




Last edited by tfan on 07/04/19 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 59840
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 11:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
And race isn't the issue. It was just normal income grouping.


Yeah, it's not like there was red lining going on or anything...



_________________
On Christmas Day, the Gingerbread Man said, ‘Ladyfingers, be my wife.’
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 11:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
And race isn't the issue. It was just normal income grouping.


Yeah, it's not like there was red lining going on or anything...


According to Wikipedia, redlining is denying mortgages to people in poorer neighborhoods (normally based on higher risk of default). That wouldn’t have prevented the Kamala Harris family from living in a more expensive Berkeley neighborhood.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 12178
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Segregation" isn't always a matter of written, enforceable code: it most often is a case of UNSPOKEN code that is very tangibly enforced. But you go ahead, stick to the letter of Wikipedia, which certainly knows more about Kamala's experience that she does.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 59840
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
And race isn't the issue. It was just normal income grouping.


Yeah, it's not like there was red lining going on or anything...


According to Wikipedia, redlining is denying mortgages to people in poorer neighborhoods (normally based on higher risk of default). That wouldn’t have prevented the Kamala Harris family from living in a more expensive Berkeley neighborhood.


Redlining isn't based on risk of default, it's based on race. It's used to keep minorities out of white neighborhoods. The first sentence under wikipedia says as much: "In the United States and Canada, redlining is the systematic denial of various services to residents of specific, often racially associated, neighborhoods or communities, either directly or through the selective raising of prices."



_________________
On Christmas Day, the Gingerbread Man said, ‘Ladyfingers, be my wife.’
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7862
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Perhaps you should go back and read the fact check that I linked to above that referenced in great detail the circumstances of that period of time and the studies that were done and why the school board itself called their schools "segregated" (not my term or Harris' term, but the term used by the people of that time and place). Since the issue was bussing, she was speaking specifically of educational segregation and how bussing had a major impact (to the positive) on her life and how Biden vehemently opposed it. Using a reductive definition where the only segregation is the segregation of Wallace standing on the school steps is not fitting for the issue at hand.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 18573



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
And race isn't the issue. It was just normal income grouping.


Yeah, it's not like there was red lining going on or anything...


According to Wikipedia, redlining is denying mortgages to people in poorer neighborhoods (normally based on higher risk of default). That wouldn’t have prevented the Kamala Harris family from living in a more expensive Berkeley neighborhood.


Denying black people mortgages.

As someone who works in a school system, I don’t know that I agree with mixing students of different abilities either. But that isn’t what is being talked about.

White schools get more money than schools with primarily people of color. That means a lack of opportunity for people of color, which (among other reasons) is why it is important to integrate.

Harris’ entire point was that without the bussing system, she wouldn’t have had the same opportunities, and therefore would t be where she is now.



_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7862
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/04/19 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:

As someone who works in a school system, I don’t know that I agree with mixing students of different abilities either.

But even that is a tricky issue.

In 2nd grade I was identified as being "advanced" and set apart into the Gifted and Talented program. In an overpopulated school district (my graduation class was 600ish) with limited finances, I got to have small classes with some of the best educators and some of the most cutting edge resources (like computers at that time). I am also a straight, white, male--the walking embodiment of privilege--so
1) it's no shocker that I wasn't missed when I showed signs of precociousness, and 2) my precociousness presented in a well understood and defined manner. With these resources I was able to give myself a foundation for my future that wasn't available to everyone.

But I was also undiagnosed ADHD. The further I got in school, the more I struggled with grades and homework; yet because of this foundation and my privilege I was able to do just enough to push through it until things fell into place, and it has allowed me to be quite successful. I had been given a huge safety net that allowed me to mess up and struggle mightily, and yet never be fully lost, never be utterly derailed. Privilege is a helluva thing.

But how many people have my story but not my privilege? How many would-be stars of their fields instead get swept away when they struggle (or worse yet, not even afforded the chance to begin with) because they're placed incorrectly, because their precociousness presented differently and wasn't understood--perhaps they were a woman in a STEM field or an overlooked minority in an underfunded school who didn't test well on a standardized test? And because of this how many didn't get put into the Gifted class; how many didn't get the resources, the educators, the people willing to give them breaks?

Anyways, it's complicated, because I do agree that different students will have different needs. And trying to teach people of significantly different abilities can hurt everyone. But how do you manage to do that without "othering" the students. How do you make sure that their needs are met without missing students or creating some sort of educational caste system of haves and have-nots? How do you make sure you don't create self-fulfilling prophecies when you "place" a child?

So, yeah, tricky. Because I have thought a lot about this over the years and I really don't know if I have ever come close to an answer to these. Maybe someone a hell of a lot smarter than me can figure it out.



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 59840
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tom Steyer

https://www.tomsteyer.com/

Quote:
There’s nothing more powerful than the unified voice of the American people



_________________
On Christmas Day, the Gingerbread Man said, ‘Ladyfingers, be my wife.’
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 18573



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:

As someone who works in a school system, I don’t know that I agree with mixing students of different abilities either.

But even that is a tricky issue.

In 2nd grade I was identified as being "advanced" and set apart into the Gifted and Talented program. In an overpopulated school district (my graduation class was 600ish) with limited finances, I got to have small classes with some of the best educators and some of the most cutting edge resources (like computers at that time). I am also a straight, white, male--the walking embodiment of privilege--so
1) it's no shocker that I wasn't missed when I showed signs of precociousness, and 2) my precociousness presented in a well understood and defined manner. With these resources I was able to give myself a foundation for my future that wasn't available to everyone.

But I was also undiagnosed ADHD. The further I got in school, the more I struggled with grades and homework; yet because of this foundation and my privilege I was able to do just enough to push through it until things fell into place, and it has allowed me to be quite successful. I had been given a huge safety net that allowed me to mess up and struggle mightily, and yet never be fully lost, never be utterly derailed. Privilege is a helluva thing.

But how many people have my story but not my privilege? How many would-be stars of their fields instead get swept away when they struggle (or worse yet, not even afforded the chance to begin with) because they're placed incorrectly, because their precociousness presented differently and wasn't understood--perhaps they were a woman in a STEM field or an overlooked minority in an underfunded school who didn't test well on a standardized test? And because of this how many didn't get put into the Gifted class; how many didn't get the resources, the educators, the people willing to give them breaks?

Anyways, it's complicated, because I do agree that different students will have different needs. And trying to teach people of significantly different abilities can hurt everyone. But how do you manage to do that without "othering" the students. How do you make sure that their needs are met without missing students or creating some sort of educational caste system of haves and have-nots? How do you make sure you don't create self-fulfilling prophecies when you "place" a child?

So, yeah, tricky. Because I have thought a lot about this over the years and I really don't know if I have ever come close to an answer to these. Maybe someone a hell of a lot smarter than me can figure it out.


I think second grade is way too early to start separating kids out.

But, having worked in a high school for the past four years, I think it's necessary to separate students in high school.

Currently, integrated classes are what is being proposed, based on research. Although, I'm not quite sure where the research is being done.

Honors/AP classes exist. Except, because we let students choose in poor schools (and let their entitled parents choose in wealthier schools), we have students in that level who really shouldn't be in that level. The net result is that the honors/ap classes aren't working at the high level that they used to be working at. It is, of course, the teacher's fault if students aren't doing well..so dumbing the class down is what inevitably happens. This honestly takes away opportunities from those students who are gifted.

Then, we can no longer have "remedial" classes, because it hurts students feelings. (Supposedly). And here is where we have "integrated." Except..this just means a classroom full of 25 students, half of which have some learning disability or ADD/ADHD. Then of the remaining, a quarter are low, a quarter should be in the honors/ap group, and the rest are actually placed correctly.

Again, this brings the class down. The quarter that is high are bored out of their minds, but typically are in the class because their friends are. (Again, they get to choose.) And then we have paras for the ADD/ADHD kids, and those paras end up working with the lower kids too. (If they are good. If they aren't, the teacher is screwed beyond belief.) This is not conductive to learning at all because there are so many different learning needs.

So what is being pushed as a solution? Group learning. Which is project focused.

And here is the problem with that. I was talking with a student about her project on Richard Nixon. She was going to teach the class about him. She told me she thought he was pretty good. Talked about him ending the Vietnam War and creating the EPA. I, of course, looked at her strangely after she finished talking about him. "you forgetting something?" She shrugged. I then explained, that literally the only thing 75% of the American Adult population knows about Nixon is watergate. She had no idea what that was.

So, the group learning in integrated classrooms was going to turn into a bunch of kids "learning" about Nixon, without a mention of Watergate. And this was from a good student.

And that's not even getting into the behavioral issues. How fun is 8-10 ADD/ADHD kids plus a few kids with dyslexia..plus ten more kids? It's not. Not at all. Laughing Oh yeah, btw..if anyone fails it's on the teacher.

So due dates aren't really a thing anymore. In fact, homework isn't really a thing anymore. Lectures aren't really a thing anymore (kids get bored.) But we're pushing "investigative learning" ..which is peer or independent learning..except the kids all got pushed up instead of being held back when they couldn't read. You go into any academic level classroom, and a good percentage of the non diagnosed kids read below a sixth grade level.

And of course, kids aren't dumb even if they are uneducated. They know who will be held responsible if they don't do well (not them). They know the amount of students in the room is hard for a teacher to control. They know there won't be real consequences for poor behaviors. They know who has control.

And I work in CT. The education capitol of the country. I can't imagine what it's like elsewhere.


It used to be that we had a lower level class..The classes were smaller (incredibly important for math and English). Everyone moved at around the same place. Behavior was easier to control. And all students moved at a higher level as a result. Because, in actuality, what happens is those that are "average" ...a majority..get left behind or dumbed down.



_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5734
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Miscellaneous:

Mercfan, your description of current education in the People's Republic of Nutmeg is depressing. In the 60's I was a junior high teacher in the lower east side of Manhattan, which was almost entirely minority--Hispanic, black and Chinese. Lack of money and resources was not a problem, but class discipline was almost impossible. The Chinese kids excelled notwithstanding the environment because they had come from disciplined schools in Taiwan and Hong Kong and they had strong family support for discipline and education.

I don't believe Kamala Harris went to school in the U.S. for very long. She spent all of her high school and part of her elementary school years in Quebec, Canada. She comes from academic privilege. Both her parents have Ph.D.'s from Cal Berkeley, one being a Stanford professor and the other a cancer researcher at several prestigious universities in the US and Canada. She was close to her grandfather, who was an Indian diplomat. I doubt that Kamala's busing in kindergarten in 1969 made much difference to her educational opportunities.

As to forced integration busing, most people today have no experience with it, since it doesn't exist in most places anymore. In 1974 the Supreme Court held that desegregation (and related busing) was not necessary unless it was proven that the school district lines were drawn with racist intent.

As to Harris's preplanned attack on Biden, she completely mischaracterized his opinions on busing and there was no time for him to explain. There were three types of segregation busing in the U.S. First, there was voluntary busing, wherein a school district through its elected representatives democratically voted to institute busing. That was the case for Kamala in Berkeley. Biden accurately said he never opposed voluntary busing.

Second, there was court ordered busing, which would follow from a lawsuit that successfully proved racist intent. You can find Biden on YouTube in the 1970's saying he always supported this type of busing.

Third, there was Big Brother forced busing, wherein the Department of HEW in Washington would threaten to withhold federal funds from school districts unless they adopted an HEW-approved busing plan. Biden vigorously opposed this type of forced busing, as did virtually everyone in America. There was a famous Gallup poll in the early 70's in which less than 10% of both whites and blacks favored busing out of local neighborhoods. In the 1968, 1972, and 1976 presidential elections, candidates opposed to busing were elected each time, and Congress voted repeatedly to end court-mandated busing.

There has never been any clear and convincing evidence that forced busing was popular or even educationally effective. But it surely caused racial divisiveness and white flight to the suburbs and to private schools, which perhaps should more accurately be called middle-and-higher-income flight.

After the debate, Kamala Harris seems to have retreated from support of forced busing, as opposed to the voluntary busing that she experienced. Thus, her position is probably not that different from Biden's in the 1970's. Her preplanned debate attack was simply the kind of political theater that I discussed earlier, and it was effective theater. Harris knows that most people are not interested in the kind of detail I just provided, and would not read this post. It's more than 144 characters and longer than a sound bite.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
"Segregation" isn't always a matter of written, enforceable code: it most often is a case of UNSPOKEN code that is very tangibly enforced. But you go ahead, stick to the letter of Wikipedia, which certainly knows more about Kamala's experience that she does.


I am not finding any statements by Kamala Harris where she said she experienced segregation in Berkeley in the 1970's. Can you point me to one or did you insert the word segregation yourself?


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
And race isn't the issue. It was just normal income grouping.


Yeah, it's not like there was red lining going on or anything...


According to Wikipedia, redlining is denying mortgages to people in poorer neighborhoods (normally based on higher risk of default). That wouldn’t have prevented the Kamala Harris family from living in a more expensive Berkeley neighborhood.


Redlining isn't based on risk of default, it's based on race. It's used to keep minorities out of white neighborhoods. The first sentence under wikipedia says as much: "In the United States and Canada, redlining is the systematic denial of various services to residents of specific, often racially associated, neighborhoods or communities, either directly or through the selective raising of prices."


It seems like the Wikipedia words could be applied to either definition [not giving loans to poor neighborhoods, or not giving minorities loans in white/rich neighborhoods]. Google gives a definition appears to go with the way I am using it: "refuse (a loan or insurance) to someone because they live in an area deemed to be a poor financial risk." But it comes down to what happened, not what the definition is. And I am only referring to her, not in general. I am skeptical that her parents (the father wouldn't have been around much since he taught out of state, if at all) were kept from moving to the white area. But I admit I have no way of knowing.




Last edited by tfan on 07/12/19 12:48 am; edited 3 times in total
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 10:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Perhaps you should go back and read the fact check that I linked to above that referenced in great detail the circumstances of that period of time and the studies that were done and why the school board itself called their schools "segregated" (not my term or Harris' term, but the term used by the people of that time and place). Since the issue was busing, she was speaking specifically of educational segregation and how busing had a major impact (to the positive) on her life and how Biden vehemently opposed it. Using a reductive definition where the only segregation is the segregation of Wallace standing on the school steps is not fitting for the issue at hand.


Your article does not reference "in great detail" anything about "the circumstances of the time". It didn't state that her parents were both Berkeley Phd graduates. The father got his PhD in 1966 when Harris was 1 1/2. After that the father was off being an economics professor at Northwestern, Wisconsin and Stanford. At the time that Harris was bused to kindergarten, her father was a professor at the University of Wisconsin. So he was not denied a good job based on his race. The mother received her PhD in 1963, before Harris was born. She worked right up until giving birth. Where did she work while in Berkeley with her PhD? The Cancer Research Lab in UC Berkeley's Department of Zoology and she often took her daughters to her lab, where they helped clean test tubes. So she wasn't denied a good job because of her race.

Kamala Harris grew up the daughter of two University of Berkeley PhD graduates who both got good jobs at Universities - they were not "defacto" segregated due to a loss of job opportunities. Although the father may not have been around at all, and may not have provided any support for the children when he as off being a college professor elsewhere. They officially divorced when Harris was seven.

The article you link does not make a case for its claim that people in the poorer neighborhood were being denied jobs solely on the basis of their race.




Last edited by tfan on 07/11/19 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 12178
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
"Segregation" isn't always a matter of written, enforceable code: it most often is a case of UNSPOKEN code that is very tangibly enforced. But you go ahead, stick to the letter of Wikipedia, which certainly knows more about Kamala's experience that she does.


I am not finding any statements by Kamala Harris where she said she experienced segregation in Berkeley in the 1970's. Can you point me to one or did you insert the word segregation yourself?


You may wanna refresh your memory by rereading some of our posts that go back to June 29th. Segregation is bantered about there.

Some clarity may be yours by examining your own writing:
tfan wrote:
In what way did Kamala Harris experience "segregation"?

segregation: the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment.


Your assertion is that Kamala couldn't have possibly experienced YOUR definition of "segregation". She may have never used the actual word--I believe that was Glenn's implication that I was responding to, and you interjected upon--and it's certainly implied here, but you also implied it was not possible, as you decided she's never experienced it.

You buttress your notion on the fact that there is a hard 'n fast written code, and I counter with the fact that segregation is far more than you're willing to comprehend. It is an often unseen, unwritten code that impacts peoples' lives (like Kamala's) in ways you most likely never will comprehend, since you seem bent on the very concrete, literal interpretations of things that are not necessarily finite concepts.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 11:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
Howee wrote:
"Segregation" isn't always a matter of written, enforceable code: it most often is a case of UNSPOKEN code that is very tangibly enforced. But you go ahead, stick to the letter of Wikipedia, which certainly knows more about Kamala's experience that she does.


I am not finding any statements by Kamala Harris where she said she experienced segregation in Berkeley in the 1970's. Can you point me to one or did you insert the word segregation yourself?


Clarity may be yours by examining your own writing:
VS wrote:
tfan wrote:
In what way did Kamala Harris experience "segregation"?

segregation: the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment.

That's literally what this whole thing was about...


Your presumption is that Kamala couldn't have possibly met YOUR definition of "segregation". She may have never used the actual word--I believe that was Glenn's implication that I was responding to, and you interjected upon--and it's certainly implied here, but you also implied it was not possible, as you implied she's never experienced it.

You buttress your notion on the fact that there is a hard 'n fast written code, and I counter with the fact that segregation is far more than you're willing to comprehend. It is an often unseen, unwritten code that impacts people's lives (like Kamala's) in ways you most likely never will comprehend, since you seem bent on the very concrete, literal interpretations of things that are not necessarily finite concepts.


The definition I presented was not from Wikipedia. It is a dictionary-style definition given by Google if you type in "segregation" for a search.

Are you aware that Kamala Harris was the daughter of two University of California Berkeley PhD graduates (she was born in 1964, her mother got hers in 1963 and the father in 1966). The father had a career as a college economics professor and the mother as a researcher and a professor. The time in the Berkeley apartment could have been due to college loans and/or a gap between first graduation and a job. Or the parents being separated (the father was teaching in Wisconsin when Harris was bused to kindergarten and they divorced two years later). Or it could be that the mother - having grown up in dirt poor India - thought that apartment and neighborhood was fine.




Last edited by tfan on 07/11/19 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 12178
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/11/19 11:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Are you aware that Kamala Harris was the daughter of two University of California Berkeley PhD graduates (she was born in 1964, her mother got hers in 1963 and the father in 1966) who had good jobs after graduating?

Are you aware that, even as EDUCATED people of color, there might very well have been *segregational* experiences they endured? I certainly hope you're not implying that people of color aren't segregated/treated by a different standard if they're rich/educated/etc.

Even as young as Kamala is, her parents could most probably tell you stories of being 'frozen out' of purchasing homes in certain areas, back in the 60s. Not hard-core segregation, but a discriminatory aura that did indeed lend itself to a form of segregation. I am only theorizing on their possibilities, but I know other African Americans who DID live that experience.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 5734
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/12/19 12:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Or it could be that the mother - having grown up in dirt poor India - thought that apartment and neighborhood was fine.


I doubt that Harris's mother, Shyamala, grew up in a dirt poor neighborhood in India. Her obituary says:

Quote:
Born in south India, Shyamala's childhood was rich with music, culture, art and travel. As a young girl, she won a national gold medal for singing classical Indian music. The daughter of Rajam and P.V. Gopalan, Shyamala's father served as a diplomat in the Indian government. Through his travels, Shyamala developed a deep appreciation for cultural diversity and egalitarianism.


On her father's side, Kamala Harris is the descendant of a powerful Jamaican slave owner, much like Barack Obama reportedly is on his white mother's side. As Harris's father Donald has written:

Quote:
My roots go back, within my lifetime, to my paternal grandmother Miss Chrishy (née Christiana Brown, descendant of Hamilton Brown who is on record as plantation and slave owner and founder of Brown’s Town) . . . .


According to Wikipedia, Hamilton Brown "argued that Jamaican slaves were better off than the poor of England and therefore the British government should not interfere with the way the Jamaican planters managed their slaves . . . ."

It would be interesting if, in the next debate, Harris were asked whether she personally should make financial reparations to the descendants of Jamaican slaves. The in-the-Democrat-tank hosts won't ask it, but it would be great theater if Uncle Joe Biden did.
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 18573



Back to top
PostPosted: 07/12/19 7:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are people here really arguing that Kamala Harris didn’t face systemic discrimination? Is that actually what is going on here?



_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 12178
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/12/19 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Are people here really arguing that Kamala Harris didn’t face systemic discrimination? Is that actually what is going on here?

Well, YAA. Cuz she's pretty, articulate AND is related to slave owners, she's not really black enough, etc. (This thread is becoming Reb's own version of Fux n Friends! Laughing )

And now that I think of it, the kids of Sally Hemings and all the other trashy slave-mistress, 'asked-for-it' types should be the poster kids for why Reparations should be made to the white folk.



_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!


Last edited by Howee on 07/12/19 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 14933
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 07/12/19 12:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Are people here really arguing that Kamala Harris didn’t face systemic discrimination? Is that actually what is going on here?


Welcome to MAGA World.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16 ... 22, 23, 24  Next
Page 15 of 24

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin