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Riquna Williams arrested
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NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: 07/09/19 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
NYSports56 wrote:

As has been repeatedly pointed out, sports leagues frequently hand out suspensions even to players who have already been acquitted.


Really? Name five. I'm honestly curious.


Five players who have been suspended without being already found guilty? Ray Rice, Eziekiel Elliot, Kareem Hunt, Tarik Hill, Glory Johnson (thanks justintime).

If you're looking for five players suspended after already being acquitted, I think you cherry picked my quote a bit, because that isn't what I was trying to say. The point of my entire post was that a lack of a guilty verdict does not shield a player from suspension. Because of the Odubel Herrera example, I felt it was appropriate to mention that sometimes it doesn't even shield a player after the player has been acquitted.


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/09/19 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Really? Name five. I'm honestly curious.


I can name eight without even thinking hard: Eddie Cicotte, Happy Felsch, Chick Gandil, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Fred McMullin, Swede Risberg, Buck Weaver, and Lefty Williams. All of them received lifetime bans despite being acquitted.

The day after their acquittal, then MLB commissioner Kennesaw Mountain Landis said "Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball again." (emphasis added)



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/09/19 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Really? Name five. I'm honestly curious.


I can name eight without even thinking hard: Eddie Cicotte, Happy Felsch, Chick Gandil, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Fred McMullin, Swede Risberg, Buck Weaver, and Lefty Williams. All of them received lifetime bans despite being acquitted.

The day after their acquittal, then MLB commissioner Kennesaw Mountain Landis said "Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball again." (emphasis added)


Bravo for recalling the Black Sox Scandal, where these players "threw" the 1919 World Series. For anyone interested in reading more about this, I strongly recommend Eliot Asinof's book, EIGHT MEN OUT. (The John Sayles film with the same title is OK but not great.)




Last edited by Bob Lamm on 07/10/19 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total
FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 07/10/19 12:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
NYSports56 wrote:

As has been repeatedly pointed out, sports leagues frequently hand out suspensions even to players who have already been acquitted.


Really? Name five. I'm honestly curious.

Or, name two examples where a league suspended a player simply for an arrest (no conviction) other than under a specific, bargained-for, written policy allowing league investigations, suspensions and punishments for arrests in its contract with the players union, such as MLB's suspension of Odubel Herrera under the 20-page Joint Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Child Abuse Policy in the MLB governing agreement. Suspension under such a specific contractual policy is completely different from the WNBA Collective Bargaining Agreement, which has no such specific investigation, suspension or punishment policy that can be invoked against a player. All the CBA has is a boilerplate morals clause, which is classically invoked only in extreme cases such as Harvey Weinstein.



Well, kudos to MLB for being proactive and formulating a policy on this. They've suspended quite a few players for anywhere from a few games to 100 or more under this policy, even in instances where the case never went to court. It would behoove the WNBA to follow a similar course, because it's become quite evident that their league isn't free of domestic violence issues.


stever



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 07/11/19 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.swishappeal.com/wnba/2019/7/11/20689030/wnba-riquna-williams-los-angeles-sparks-domestic-violence-punishment-suspension-wnbpa-nba-lgbtq

Quote:
The Sparks’ lack of accountability to these potentially positive initiatives is indicative of a blind exceptionalism, a belief in the inherent rightness of their organization regardless of obvious contradictions or empty convictions. Instead of continuing to take advantage of their believed exceptionality, the Sparks could choose to be exemplary. Proactively addressing the Williams situation, such as by not re-signing her initially or by suspending her indefinitely, would allow the Sparks to exemplify the values they claim to hold.

The Williams situation, likewise, should encourage the WNBPA to re-evaluate the gap between their words and actions.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 07/11/19 12:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
https://www.swishappeal.com/wnba/2019/7/11/20689030/wnba-riquna-williams-los-angeles-sparks-domestic-violence-punishment-suspension-wnbpa-nba-lgbtq

Quote:
The Sparks’ lack of accountability to these potentially positive initiatives is indicative of a blind exceptionalism, a belief in the inherent rightness of their organization regardless of obvious contradictions or empty convictions. Instead of continuing to take advantage of their believed exceptionality, the Sparks could choose to be exemplary. Proactively addressing the Williams situation, such as by not re-signing her initially or by suspending her indefinitely, would allow the Sparks to exemplify the values they claim to hold.

The Williams situation, likewise, should encourage the WNBPA to re-evaluate the gap between their words and actions.

Excellent article by Dr. Ariail. Thanks for sharing it stever.



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lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: 07/11/19 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Source: Riquna Williams suspension is imminent

Quote:
A source close to the situation who wishes to stay anonymous because they are not authorized to speak publicly on the matter informed Swish Appeal the WNBA has concluded its investigation into Riquna Williams’ domestic violence arrest and is prepared to announce its findings imminently, along with any punishment, which is expected to be a suspension.

The WNBA has been trying to meet with Williams as a part of its investigatory process since July 3.

Her agent has requested that Williams, currently on a road trip with the Sparks, be afforded the opportunity to speak with the league after she returns to Los Angeles. But the WNBA has imposed a deadline of 5 p.m. ET today, Thursday July 11, by which Williams must meet with the league’s investigators if she wishes to weigh in before they finalize and announce their decision.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

10 game suspension.



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 07/16/19 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
10 game suspension.


Good, now for the people that felt this should’ve came from the Sparks or earlier in the season. Do you agree with the length of the suspension? Did it come too late?



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
justintyme wrote:
10 game suspension.


Good, now for the people that felt this should’ve came from the Sparks or earlier in the season. Do you agree with the length of the suspension? Did it come too late?


I'm willing to wager that Dream fans probably think it came at least forty-eight hours too late.

I keed, I keed.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
justintyme wrote:
10 game suspension.


Good, now for the people that felt this should’ve came from the Sparks or earlier in the season. Do you agree with the length of the suspension? Did it come too late?

Honestly I've never been too concerned with the length of the suspension itself. Based upon their precedent, the way they dropped the ball at the beginning of this, and the lack of a detailed policy it seems about right.

The issue for me has always been the lack of seriousness they were showing by not addressing it at all. That's why the paid suspension from the get-go just made more sense to me instead of worrying about punishment. Now going into the next CBA I think it is essential that they figure out exactly how it is they want to handle these cases, and make sure the systems are in place to deal with these cases in a socially aware and meaningful way, as is consistent with their branding/image as a league that concerns itself with social issues.



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SDHoops



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
justintyme wrote:
10 game suspension.


Good, now for the people that felt this should’ve came from the Sparks or earlier in the season. Do you agree with the length of the suspension? Did it come too late?

It should've been done earlier since it was already acknowledged much earlier. The WNBA's approach of being hush hush over the years in terms of how to deal with lesbians (i.e. disproportionately announcing straight weddings and totally ignoring lesbian ones in the past) and now domestic violence. If the Howard accusations didn't come to light, this would've also been swept under the rug. This is politics and lip service at it's finest to make people happy.

Hello! Did we all forget LaTasha Byears? Charges DROPPED, yet still blackballed by the WNBA. A lawsuit soon followed by Byears..and just for the record, Howard has NOT been formally charged with anything and her wife sent a text to the GM saying that what she said wasn't about Howard.


so-many-pickles



Joined: 17 May 2018
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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
justintyme wrote:
10 game suspension.


Good, now for the people that felt this should’ve came from the Sparks or earlier in the season. Do you agree with the length of the suspension? Did it come too late?


It's not enough. If they've determined that she did this, she should be banned.


lethalweapon3



Joined: 17 May 2018
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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Two poorly thought out questions.

*IF* it can be proven the reasons underlying Bay's suspension were readily available to owners and management, or at least could have been gleaned from an interview prior to signing her, can the league also fine the organization for deciding to sign her to a new deal?

Is it acceptable to assume that W teams do, and should, have the internal capital that's necessary to do investigative work, or pay for it to be done on their behalf (as opposed to the larger league)... the $$$ to do all the things that entail when team PR/communications departments give out the old line, "We're looking into/monitoring the matter and will have no further comment."?


10 games is... something... way better than nothing... but I'd imagine a player already under contract entering the season might have received even more time off, at least until any legal hearings commenced. It would have been almost as awkward had she returned to action in late June and then had to be suspended, yet again, for any legal findings handed down in, say, August or September.


~lw3


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
justintyme wrote:
10 game suspension.


Good, now for the people that felt this should’ve came from the Sparks or earlier in the season. Do you agree with the length of the suspension? Did it come too late?


Note that this is 10 games without pay, so it appears to a definitive punitive suspension, and not merely an administrative suspension until there's some legal decision.

I feel the Sparks should never have signed her, and the league's response was not very timely. Did they actually come across some relevant facts this week that weren't available months ago?

Comparing the length of the suspension to other leagues with some rough proration for the difference in the length of the seasons, MLB would likely have suspended her for a longer period for the DV incident and tacked on more time for the gun charge, and the NFL would have suspended her for 2 nanoseconds. The WNBA really needs to decide what kind of statement it wants to make on these issues because right now both their untimeliness and severity of punishment seem rather half-hearted.


mavcarter
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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lethalweapon3 wrote:
Two poorly thought out questions.


And yet you answered them?

That hurt the little feelings that I do have. Mr. Green Laughing



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Appreciate everyone for their answers/opinions, btw. Very Happy



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lynxmania



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Today was our commissioner's first on the job, was it now? How much do we think that she wanted this done right away?


ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Too late, but not too little.

If convicted, perhaps a lifetime ban.

Still, the big question: Why did Penny Toler think it was OK to sign her? Was winning a couple games really worth it?



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Too late, but not too little.

If convicted, perhaps a lifetime ban.

Still, the big question: Why did Penny Toler think it was OK to sign her? Was winning a couple games really worth it?

They cannot punish her again. There are specific rules in the CBA about "double jeopardy". Once they have a punitive punishment, that's it.

But seriously, she's facing a charge that has a maximum sentence of life in prison and another that has a maximum sentence of 5 years. If she is found guilty, league punishment is the least of her worries.



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lethalweapon3



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
lethalweapon3 wrote:
Two poorly thought out questions.


And yet you answered them?

That hurt the little feelings that I do have. Mr. Green Laughing


Oh, I meant my MY questions are (typically) poorly thought out! Yours were fine! Sorry about that! Very Happy


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
justintyme wrote:
10 game suspension.


Good, now for the people that felt this should’ve came from the Sparks or earlier in the season. Do you agree with the length of the suspension? Did it come too late?


The length is not consistent with prior DV suspensions, which makes me think it's a little long. Maybe Williams will appeal to the commissioner to have it shortened.

Is it too late? Yeah, by about a week. Assuming the league wanted to suspend her at the easiest point in the Sparks schedule, the ideal time would have been two or three games ago.



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 5:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lethalweapon3 wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
lethalweapon3 wrote:
Two poorly thought out questions.


And yet you answered them?

That hurt the little feelings that I do have. Mr. Green Laughing


Oh, I meant my MY questions are (typically) poorly thought out! Yours were fine! Sorry about that! Very Happy


My bad. No apology needed, thought we were gonna have to duke it out. Laughing Wink



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lethalweapon3



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
lethalweapon3 wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
lethalweapon3 wrote:
Two poorly thought out questions.


And yet you answered them?

That hurt the little feelings that I do have. Mr. Green Laughing


Oh, I meant my MY questions are (typically) poorly thought out! Yours were fine! Sorry about that! Very Happy


My bad. No apology needed, thought we were gonna have to duke it out. Laughing Wink


Nah, anytime stuff is about to go down, I always find it wise to seek a Riquna to hide behind!

~lw3


Carol Anne



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PostPosted: 07/16/19 5:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Los Angeles Sparks’ Riquna Williams Suspended Ten Games

https://www.wnba.com/news/los-angeles-sparks-riquna-williams-suspended-ten-games/


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