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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 07/02/19 6:20 pm ::: |
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| Possibly one of the worst choices ever.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 07/02/19 6:24 pm ::: |
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PER: Collier 16.6; Arike 12.4
TS%: Collier .605; Arike .413
eFG%: Collier .548; Arike .380
ORtg: Collier 110; Arike 93
DRtg: Collier 95; Arike 104
WS: Collier 1.5; Arike .2
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: 07/03/19 7:24 pm ::: |
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| a true embarrassment
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/08/19 2:00 pm ::: |
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Tina Charles & Brittney Griner
Charles' 30th
Griner's 7th
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bballgrl
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 07/08/19 2:05 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
PER: Collier 16.6; Arike 12.4
TS%: Collier .605; Arike .413
eFG%: Collier .548; Arike .380
ORtg: Collier 110; Arike 93
DRtg: Collier 95; Arike 104
WS: Collier 1.5; Arike .2 |
I really don't care for Arike. She plays sometimes like she doesn't have team mates. She can not carry the whole team and she needs to share the ball.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/08/19 9:25 pm ::: |
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| bballgrl wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
PER: Collier 16.6; Arike 12.4
TS%: Collier .605; Arike .413
eFG%: Collier .548; Arike .380
ORtg: Collier 110; Arike 93
DRtg: Collier 95; Arike 104
WS: Collier 1.5; Arike .2 |
I really don't care for Arike. She plays sometimes like she doesn't have team mates. She can not carry the whole team and she needs to share the ball. |
If the coaches didn't want her to do exactly what she's doing, she wouldn't be playing, much less starting.
It's not like she's surrounded by scorers, or distributors for that matter. Who would you prefer to have the ball? Brooke McCarty? Kaela Davis? Glory Johnson? The entire team is only shooting 37%.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1126
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: 07/08/19 9:47 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| bballgrl wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
PER: Collier 16.6; Arike 12.4
TS%: Collier .605; Arike .413
eFG%: Collier .548; Arike .380
ORtg: Collier 110; Arike 93
DRtg: Collier 95; Arike 104
WS: Collier 1.5; Arike .2 |
I really don't care for Arike. She plays sometimes like she doesn't have team mates. She can not carry the whole team and she needs to share the ball. |
If the coaches didn't want her to do exactly what she's doing, she wouldn't be playing, much less starting.
It's not like she's surrounded by scorers, or distributors for that matter. Who would you prefer to have the ball? Brooke McCarty? Kaela Davis? Glory Johnson? The entire team is only shooting 37%. |
ArtBest, I don't want to revisit everything we discussed in the rookie of the month thread, but I meant to ask you if you would have voted for Arike as Rookie of the Month. In that thread (and here) it's been people criticizing Arike, and you defending her. Based on your points, I think it's fair to defend her. But are you also saying you thought she was better than Collier?
Also, if you were drafting right now for an average WNBA team where neither's position was more of a priority than the other's, would you take Arike or Napheesa?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/08/19 10:17 pm ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| bballgrl wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
PER: Collier 16.6; Arike 12.4
TS%: Collier .605; Arike .413
eFG%: Collier .548; Arike .380
ORtg: Collier 110; Arike 93
DRtg: Collier 95; Arike 104
WS: Collier 1.5; Arike .2 |
I really don't care for Arike. She plays sometimes like she doesn't have team mates. She can not carry the whole team and she needs to share the ball. |
If the coaches didn't want her to do exactly what she's doing, she wouldn't be playing, much less starting.
It's not like she's surrounded by scorers, or distributors for that matter. Who would you prefer to have the ball? Brooke McCarty? Kaela Davis? Glory Johnson? The entire team is only shooting 37%. |
ArtBest, I don't want to revisit everything we discussed in the rookie of the month thread, but I meant to ask you if you would have voted for Arike as Rookie of the Month. In that thread (and here) it's been people criticizing Arike, and you defending her. Based on your points, I think it's fair to defend her. But are you also saying you thought she was better than Collier?
Also, if you were drafting right now for an average WNBA team where neither's position was more of a priority than the other's, would you take Arike or Napheesa? |
I was surprised by Arike's selection. I expected the hype and "conventional wisdom" to prevail for Collier. And Collier has played exceptionally well. I would have had no shock or problem with her selection. But if you stop and think about it, the Lynx would win anyhow without her. The Wings would probably be winless without Arike. So do best overall stats win the award? Or does the rookie who has become a leader and produced some wins on a horrible team deserve it? I can see different views. I'm surprised at the WNBA's choice. But if I was drafting, I'd take Ogunbowale. I think she's more of a difference maker now and will be over time.
Let me ask you this. I think Collier is on a perfect team for her. She's consistent, versatile, a good teammate and fits perfectly on a good team and solid franchise like the Lynx. But do you think she could step up, stand out, and take over the starring role on a really bad team, getting her own shots without help to produce needed points?
I've got nothing against Collier. I've liked her since she was in high school. Never understood why Samuelson was the annointed star over her at UConn. But I don't agree that her selection for ROM should have been an iron clad lock like the polls here on Rebkell suggested.
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mavcarter
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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| Posted: 07/08/19 10:53 pm ::: |
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With Ogunbowale being the leading scorer for the Wings, she’s not even 1st in Win Shares on the team. She’s 4th. Then again, I’m not too crazy on advanced stats regarding players on bad teams. But it is still interesting nonetheless.._________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 07/08/19 11:06 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
I was surprised by Arike's selection. I expected the hype and "conventional wisdom" to prevail for Collier. And Collier has played exceptionally well. I would have had no shock or problem with her selection. But if you stop and think about it, the Lynx would win anyhow without her. The Wings would probably be winless without Arike. So do best overall stats win the award? Or does the rookie who has become a leader and produced some wins on a horrible team deserve it? I can see different views. I'm surprised at the WNBA's choice. But if I was drafting, I'd take Ogunbowale. I think she's more of a difference maker now and will be over time.
Let me ask you this. I think Collier is on a perfect team for her. She's consistent, versatile, a good teammate and fits perfectly on a good team and solid franchise like the Lynx. But do you think she could step up, stand out, and take over the starring role on a really bad team, getting her own shots without help to produce needed points?
I've got nothing against Collier. I've liked her since she was in high school. Never understood why Samuelson was the annointed star over her at UConn. But I don't agree that her selection for ROM should have been an iron clad lock like the polls here on Rebkell suggested. |
This is a fair take. While I personally disagree with using the "value added" metric for ROY/ROTM (of course, I don't even like it for MVP, if I were a voter it would go to the "most outstanding player" exclusively), it is not unreasonable to do so.
The one place that Collier brings the most value to the Lynx though, and would any team that drafted her (well, any team with a smart coach) is on defense. Collier has a legit shot at making one of the all-defensive teams this year, imo.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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| Posted: 07/09/19 12:00 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Let me ask you this. I think Collier is on a perfect team for her. She's consistent, versatile, a good teammate and fits perfectly on a good team and solid franchise like the Lynx. But do you think she could step up, stand out, and take over the starring role on a really bad team, getting her own shots without help to produce needed points? |
No, I guess Collier could not star on a really bad team the way Arike has. On a team that has expectations of winning, I think it's a different story. If I have a roster that's anything more than bottom rung, I want a player like Collier to add to the chemistry and teamwork instead of a player like Arike whose game is taking over the show for herself.
I disagree that the Lynx would be winning without Collier with their current lineup. Napheesa is the second best player on the Lynx. She's done a whole lot more than simply fit in on an already good team. I don't think Fowles by herself would have a winning record with the rest of this cast.
I could wax poetic about all of the things I believe Collier has brought to the Lynx, but since you seem to admire her game, I don't think that's necessary. I'll just say that I personally feel that all these things outweigh Arike's ability to create her own shot, particularly since those created shots have only gone in 35% of the time. Yes, there was the legendarily bad game, but that's what happens to players who consistently take bad shots. You can't completely throw it out any more than you would throw out the shots she makes when she is on hot streaks.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 07/09/19 1:27 am ::: |
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| RAOY fit in just fine as an integral teammate for four years at Notre Dame -- in offenses that had strong teammates and that were more sophisticated than the Wings' -- and in addition she excelled as a big time, big game shooter. Yeah, a little bit chucky at times, but she was also a great disher on the fast break, especially to Jackie Young. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/15/19 11:40 am ::: |
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Jonquel Jones & Nneka Ogwumike
Jones' 7th
Ogwumike's 11th
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pilight
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| Posted: 07/22/19 11:04 am ::: |
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Elena Delle Donne & Natasha Howard
Delle Donne's 18th
Howard's 3rd
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/01/19 2:10 pm ::: |
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| Players of the month for July are Elena Delle Donne and Nneka Ogwumike
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/01/19 2:22 pm ::: |
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| Coach of the month is Bill Laimbeer
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/01/19 3:15 pm ::: |
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| Rookie of the month is Napheesa Collier
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/03/19 2:39 pm ::: |
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Despite that, Ogunbowale would have been a more defensible choice for July ROM than she was for June.
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/05/19 11:28 am ::: |
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Elena Delle Donne & Candace Parker
Parker's 24th
Delle Donne's 19th
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/12/19 1:15 pm ::: |
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Elena Delle Donne & Nneka Ogwumike
Delle Donne's 20th
Ogwumike's 12th
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/12/19 1:22 pm ::: |
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| The janitor is really determined to make Delle Donne the MVP.
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greg5222
Joined: 03 May 2006
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| Posted: 08/12/19 3:21 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| The janitor is really determined to make Delle Donne the MVP. |
Hw many times has EDD won this year?
PEACE & LOVE GO MYSTICS!!!!!
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/12/19 3:28 pm ::: |
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| greg5222 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| The janitor is really determined to make Delle Donne the MVP. |
Hw many times has EDD won this year?
PEACE & LOVE GO MYSTICS!!!!! |
She's won five times this year
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 08/12/19 6:15 pm ::: |
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| The janitor is going to get into trouble at this rate for doing too much game watching and not enough janiting
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