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Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month

 
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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/06/19 2:02 pm    ::: Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month Reply Reply with quote

https://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/ogunbowale-named-wnba-rookie-of-the-month/n-5512748

Guess ROY isn't as much of a lock already as the Rebkell polls assume after all.


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PostPosted: 07/06/19 2:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=96480&start=25



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PostPosted: 07/06/19 2:13 pm    ::: Re: Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
https://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/ogunbowale-named-wnba-rookie-of-the-month/n-5512748

Guess ROY isn't as much of a lock already as the Rebkell polls assume after all.

Well, the WNBA's "Wheel-of-Award" won't pick the ROY award.

There is good reason why the polls have it in a landslide. Durr would have had more of a case than Arike, as it wasn't even close between Arike and Collier:

PER: Collier 16.6; Arike 12.4
TS%: Collier .605; Arike .413
eFG%: Collier .548; Arike .380
ORtg: Collier 110; Arike 93
DRtg: Collier 95; Arike 104
WS: Collier 1.5; Arike .2

The only stat that Arike had a slight edge in was PPG, and that was due to volume alone as the percentages show. It's a long season, and things can definitely change, but right now ROY is Collier's to lose by a large margin.



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 07/06/19 2:32 pm    ::: Re: Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
The only stat that Arike had a slight edge in was PPG, and that was due to volume alone as the percentages show. It's a long season, and things can definitely change, but right now ROY is Collier's to lose by a large margin.


Ogunbowale went to Notre Dame though which is the most important criteria. 😝


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PostPosted: 07/06/19 3:04 pm    ::: Re: Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
justintyme wrote:
The only stat that Arike had a slight edge in was PPG, and that was due to volume alone as the percentages show. It's a long season, and things can definitely change, but right now ROY is Collier's to lose by a large margin.


Ogunbowale went to Notre Dame though which is the most important criteria. 😝


Yeah, she can join that long list of Notre Dame ROYs...



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PostPosted: 07/06/19 3:13 pm    ::: Re: Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
justintyme wrote:
The only stat that Arike had a slight edge in was PPG, and that was due to volume alone as the percentages show. It's a long season, and things can definitely change, but right now ROY is Collier's to lose by a large margin.


Ogunbowale went to Notre Dame though which is the most important criteria. 😝


Yeah, she can join that long list of Notre Dame ROYs...


Laughing



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/06/19 4:46 pm    ::: Re: Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
justintyme wrote:
The only stat that Arike had a slight edge in was PPG, and that was due to volume alone as the percentages show. It's a long season, and things can definitely change, but right now ROY is Collier's to lose by a large margin.


Ogunbowale went to Notre Dame though which is the most important criteria. 😝


Yeah, she can join that long list of Notre Dame ROYs...


One thing you can count on is UConn fans stuffing every Rebkell poll ballot box. I knew the WNBA's choice would get more than a few noses here out of joint. Laughing


NYSports56



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 1:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know how anyone who's following the WNBA this year could think that anyone but Collier was Rookie of the Month. The choice should be unanimous.

I believe that Napheesa was a huge asset to the Lynx in December. I think that Arike was a liability for Dallas with her poor shot selection and the effect it had on the whole Wings offense.

Oh, and I have watched about 2 or 3 UConn games in my entire life. If that. So no UConn bias here.


Davis4632



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 1:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For the past couple of games, teams having been double teaming Arike. For them to do that either, teams A) fear or respect her game that she will get hot B) trying force her into making turnovers. Teams should just leave her open and play the percentages instead of wasting their time doubling her when she such as a liability on offense.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 8:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Far from being a "liability", she is the reason they won 4 of their last 6.




Last edited by ArtBest23 on 07/07/19 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
pilight



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 9:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We've had more ROYs whose last names begin with "Og" than ROYs from Notre Dame



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 9:41 am    ::: Re: Ogunbowale named WNBA rookie of the month Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
justintyme wrote:
The only stat that Arike had a slight edge in was PPG, and that was due to volume alone as the percentages show. It's a long season, and things can definitely change, but right now ROY is Collier's to lose by a large margin.


Ogunbowale went to Notre Dame though which is the most important criteria. 😝


Yeah, she can join that long list of Notre Dame ROYs...

Pretty sure SpaceJunkie was pointing out the stat that was important to Art, not to the ROY voters. Wink

Not to say that there isn't plenty of UConn bias around these parts, or that in my case, my Lynx bias could factor in. Which is why I went for objective advanced stats (and as many as I could instead of cherry picking) to make my case and minimize potential bias.



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 8:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
For the past couple of games, teams having been double teaming Arike. For them to do that either, teams A) fear or respect her game that she will get hot B) trying force her into making turnovers. Teams should just leave her open and play the percentages instead of wasting their time doubling her when she such as a liability on offense.


Or C), teams know that it's a free double-team because she's not going to pass out of it anyway.

I probably shouldn't have called her a liability, but I don't like having players like her on the teams I root for (I'm neither a fan nor hater of the Wings). Maybe she will learn, but right now, I don't consider her a team player.

Disregarding what I like and don't like, I can't understand how anyone could think that Arike had a better month than Napheesa.


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PostPosted: 07/07/19 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Arike is in a tough situation.
She is being told by everyone that she is a scorer and a clutch shooter, and she's on a team that is horrible offensively, so shooting the ball is what she should be doing at the moment.
Hopefully next season her team doesn't suck as hard, she's had an off-season to improve her game, and she doesn't need to spray them up at such high volumes anymore.
So I say give her time before completely writing her off. Same thing I said about Katie Smith as a coach last season.



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 9:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Very fair, Luuuc; my words were definitely too harsh for a first month rookie. But who's your vote for Rookie of the Month?


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PostPosted: 07/07/19 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Very fair, Luuuc; my words were definitely too harsh for a first month rookie. But who's your vote for Rookie of the Month?

I wasn't aiming that post at you in particular, and while I'm kind of arguing that the backlash against Arike's shooting should be tempered I'm in no way saying that she should be ROTM or that looking at average points and ignoring pretty much every other statistical measure is anything but laziness/negligence.
My vote is Collier and it's not close. Who is #2 might be a decision that needs more consideration.



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PostPosted: 07/07/19 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
so shooting the ball is what she should be doing at the moment.


I agree. Literally no one on that Wings team can create a shot consistently besides Ogunbowale.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's kind of funny that the same people crying "don't just look at PPG" are just simplistically basing their position on a bunch of other stats.

My guess is the people making these awards are actually watching games and seeing a rookie who has taken a leadership role on a bad team and led them to some wins after an 0-5 start. Maybe they noticed that her shooting percentage is largely a result of one horrific 2-23 game, and paid more attention to her 7-12, 19 point (15 in the 2nd half) performance in leading the Wings to a win over the Lynx, a team they hadn't defeated in the previous 12 attempts. (Collier was 4-10 in that game, btw.)

I'm admittedly biased but no more so than the posters in an uproar because their favorite rookie wasn't as "obvious" a choice as they thought she was. It seems a little odd to write "I don't know how anyone who's following the WNBA this year could think that anyone but Collier was Rookie of the Month" when the selection group thought exactly that, unless of course you believe the people making the awards don't follow the WNBA. (I'm sure we'll get some "I doubt they do based on their ridiculous choices" replies, but I expect you all know better than that.)


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PostPosted: 07/08/19 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
It's kind of funny that the same people crying "don't just look at PPG" are just simplistically basing their position on a bunch of other stats.

My guess is the people making these awards are actually watching games and seeing a rookie who has taken a leadership role on a bad team and led them to some wins after an 0-5 start. Maybe they noticed that her shooting percentage is largely a result of one horrific 2-23 game, and paid more attention to her 7-12, 19 point (15 in the 2nd half) performance in leading the Wings to a win over the Lynx, a team they hadn't defeated in the previous 12 attempts. (Collier was 4-10 in that game, btw.)

I'm admittedly biased but no more so than the posters in an uproar because their favorite rookie wasn't as "obvious" a choice as they thought she was. It seems a little odd to write "I don't know how anyone who's following the WNBA this year could think that anyone but Collier was Rookie of the Month" when the selection group thought exactly that, unless of course you believe the people making the awards don't follow the WNBA. (I'm sure we'll get some "I doubt they do based on their ridiculous choices" replies, but I expect you all know better than that.)


There's something wrong with the idea that one stat shouldn't be the lone deciding factor, and that you should look for other stats to draw a more complete picture? The stats seem to match my own observations. Arike scored more points, but in nearly every other aspect of the game, I think Collier was better.

My thoughts on this are not just based on statistics. I've watched every minute Collier's played and probably about 75% of Arike's minutes. I previously wrote here with my praise of Collier before I watched Saturday's Lynx vs. Sun game on DVR. In that game, Collier guarded Jonquel Jones (who is 6'6'' to Collier's 6'1''), and held her to 5 points on 2-10 shooting. She was helped by double-teams, but probably no more than Jones normally is doubled.

That's not the month of June, so it doesn't count, but it's just another example of Collier's amazing range with respect to what she can do on a basketball court.

Why is it odd that I wrote what I did? I wasn't saying the award givers weren't watching the games. I was saying that I was so strong in my conviction that Napheesa should be the unanimous selection, that I am completely bewildered by their conclusions.


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PostPosted: 07/08/19 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
For the past couple of games, teams having been double teaming Arike. For them to do that either, teams A) fear or respect her game that she will get hot B) trying force her into making turnovers. Teams should just leave her open and play the percentages instead of wasting their time doubling her when she such as a liability on offense.


Or C), teams know that it's a free double-team because she's not going to pass out of it anyway.

I probably shouldn't have called her a liability, but I don't like having players like her on the teams I root for (I'm neither a fan nor hater of the Wings). Maybe she will learn, but right now, I don't consider her a team player.

Disregarding what I like and don't like, I can't understand how anyone could think that Arike had a better month than Napheesa.


About C), Collier's team doubled Arike late in the fourth quarter, Arike passed out of the double team and it led to the game winning shot. I guess you forgot about that play since you watched every minute Collier play.

Some of Arike's mediocre percentage is due to her shooting a lot but some of it also due to some of her teammates deferring to her and passing the ball to her with 2 or 3 seconds left on the shot clock. I guess you can tell that I have watch a fair share of games myself.


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PostPosted: 07/08/19 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
NYSports56 wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
For the past couple of games, teams having been double teaming Arike. For them to do that either, teams A) fear or respect her game that she will get hot B) trying force her into making turnovers. Teams should just leave her open and play the percentages instead of wasting their time doubling her when she such as a liability on offense.


Or C), teams know that it's a free double-team because she's not going to pass out of it anyway.

I probably shouldn't have called her a liability, but I don't like having players like her on the teams I root for (I'm neither a fan nor hater of the Wings). Maybe she will learn, but right now, I don't consider her a team player.

Disregarding what I like and don't like, I can't understand how anyone could think that Arike had a better month than Napheesa.


About C), Collier's team doubled Arike late in the fourth quarter, Arike passed out of the double team and it led to the game winning shot. I guess you forgot about that play since you watched every minute Collier play.

Some of Arike's mediocre percentage is due to her shooting a lot but some of it also due to some of her teammates deferring to her and passing the ball to her with 2 or 3 seconds left on the shot clock. I guess you can tell that I have watch a fair share of games myself.


I've seen Arike's good plays. There are lots of them. And I do not dispute that she is being asked to score even when she is being guarded. Those 2 or 3 second examples are not what I'm talking about. But I also see a ton of difficult shots being taken early, and I was seeing it before her tremendously bad game. I see lots of poor basketball decisions. As you would expect from a rookie. Unless that rookie is Collier, who amazes me every game with respect to how few those rookie mistakes are.

At this point, I'm going to call B.S. on myself for claiming a lack of bias. With every game, Collier is turning into my favorite player. But that is mostly because of all the good things I've seen, so this is a chicken vs. egg situation.


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