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willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 06/10/19 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Yay! So that's what winning feels like! I can't believe it, of all the games, this is the one I least expected them to win. I am now officially on record as saying that the Liberty will lose every game for the rest of the year and finish with just one win! Smile

The rapturous applause from everybody at the WCC at the end brought a tear to my eye. Winning a single regular season game isn't supposed to feel like this. But rooting for a basketball team isn't supposed to feel like what the losing streak felt like either.

I'm glad this happened before Hartley and Zahui B Amanda left for EuroBasket. It might have been a while for the first win otherwise, and it's good that the rookies experience a win. A losing streak like the one that just ended is demoralizing for players and fans alike.

Yay!
I think the Liberty winning this game should be a reminder of the any given Sunday sports principle at work. Yet when it comes to college games fans tend to make blanket evaluations based on single game matchups. Remind me of the time long ago when i used to be a fan of the NBA, when teams that were just horrible would beat the top team on a given day. Of course in the NBA they play a lot of games, but that principle should still be considered in both the WNBA, college and highschool girls contests. The best team does not always win in basketball.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/11/19 12:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With Zahui and Hartley leaving, I was looking over the +/- of Liberty lineups to see what might be the best combinations Katie can put out there. Well, here's a fun fact: no New York lineup has appeared in all five games. That's right, no 5-player combination that you can think of has been on the floor for every game. That's out of 59 variations used. In fact, only three of these units have appeared in four games:

T. Charles, A. Zahui B, B. Boyd, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 4 games, 36 minutes, -23
T. Charles, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, B. Boyd, K. Nurse: 4 games, 15 minutes, +5
T. Charles, B. Hartley, A. Zahui B, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 4 games, 7 minutes, +2

That -23 lineup turned out to be the worst of all combinations. The best were:

T. Charles, B. Hartley, R. Gray, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 3 games, 10 minutes, +19
T. Charles, R. Allen, B. Boyd, R. Gray, K. Nurse: 3 games, 4 minutes, +8
T. Charles, B. Hartley, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, K. Nurse: 3 games, 7 minutes, +7
T. Wright, B. Hartley, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, R. Gray: 1 game, 5 minutes, +7
B. Boyd, R. Gray, K. Nurse, A. Durr, H. Xu: 1 game, 2 minutes, +7



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
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Lib Fan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4386
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 06/11/19 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
With Zahui and Hartley leaving, I was looking over the +/- of Liberty lineups to see what might be the best combinations Katie can put out there. Well, here's a fun fact: no New York lineup has appeared in all five games. That's right, no 5-player combination that you can think of has been on the floor for every game. That's out of 59 variations used. In fact, only three of these units have appeared in four games:

T. Charles, A. Zahui B, B. Boyd, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 4 games, 36 minutes, -23
T. Charles, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, B. Boyd, K. Nurse: 4 games, 15 minutes, +5
T. Charles, B. Hartley, A. Zahui B, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 4 games, 7 minutes, +2

That -23 lineup turned out to be the worst of all combinations. The best were:

T. Charles, B. Hartley, R. Gray, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 3 games, 10 minutes, +19
T. Charles, R. Allen, B. Boyd, R. Gray, K. Nurse: 3 games, 4 minutes, +8
T. Charles, B. Hartley, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, K. Nurse: 3 games, 7 minutes, +7
T. Wright, B. Hartley, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, R. Gray: 1 game, 5 minutes, +7
B. Boyd, R. Gray, K. Nurse, A. Durr, H. Xu: 1 game, 2 minutes, +7



WOW root_thing ...with all due respect you are "The Liberty's Plight" !



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/11/19 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks, but pilight maintains his own data. He does real work. I'm just a couch potato playing with the new stuff on WNBA.com.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
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Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 06/11/19 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
root_thing wrote:
With Zahui and Hartley leaving, I was looking over the +/- of Liberty lineups to see what might be the best combinations Katie can put out there. Well, here's a fun fact: no New York lineup has appeared in all five games. That's right, no 5-player combination that you can think of has been on the floor for every game. That's out of 59 variations used. In fact, only three of these units have appeared in four games:

T. Charles, A. Zahui B, B. Boyd, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 4 games, 36 minutes, -23
T. Charles, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, B. Boyd, K. Nurse: 4 games, 15 minutes, +5
T. Charles, B. Hartley, A. Zahui B, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 4 games, 7 minutes, +2

That -23 lineup turned out to be the worst of all combinations. The best were:

T. Charles, B. Hartley, R. Gray, K. Nurse, A. Durr: 3 games, 10 minutes, +19
T. Charles, R. Allen, B. Boyd, R. Gray, K. Nurse: 3 games, 4 minutes, +8
T. Charles, B. Hartley, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, K. Nurse: 3 games, 7 minutes, +7
T. Wright, B. Hartley, R. Allen, A. Zahui B, R. Gray: 1 game, 5 minutes, +7
B. Boyd, R. Gray, K. Nurse, A. Durr, H. Xu: 1 game, 2 minutes, +7



WOW root_thing ...with all due respect you are "The Liberty's Plight" !

It seems you're confusing root_thing with the WNBA draft lottery.


bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 132
Location: San Diego, CA


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PostPosted: 06/13/19 12:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Loves seeing Asia Durr gain confidence and see buckets dropping for her!
You could see how much this first WNBA win meant to her.

Kia Nurse playing the whole game and lighting it up. Zahui B double double and solid/active on defense. Tina a down game with 12 and 8, give her some more rest she’s still playing a lot. Obviously she draws doubles and gets some looks for everyone else, but let’s balance the playing time a little more.

I also really need Katie to play this next back to back smart with the minutes distribution......
Because I’m dragging a few of my friends up to LA to watch the Liberty play the Sparks this Saturday and I’m super excited! I don’t wanna take them to see a tired squad that gets blown out at the end of a back to back.
Let’s keep it up on this west coast swing ladies!


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 06/13/19 12:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just took another look at Asia Durr's two baskets at the end to seal the victory over Minnesota.

When she got the ball each time (the second time with the shot clock running down), it didn't look like she was thinking "I'm a rookie and I'm supposed to defer to veteran players." It didn't look like she was thinking "I'm supposed to get the ball to Tina Charles. She should take every crucial shot." It looked like Durr was thinking exactly as she must have at the end of close college games: "I've got the ball. This is on me. I'm the one who's taking the shot. And of course I'm going to make it." The attitude of a star.

Just one game, I know. There will surely be ups and downs for Durr this season. But what I saw on those two plays is exactly what this team needs--now and for the future.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 06/13/19 1:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One bad game by Collier, one good game for Durr, and Asia takes over the rookie lead in scoring. Supposedly the rookie who leads in scoring usually wins ROY -- rightly or wrongly.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 5258
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PostPosted: 06/13/19 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I went back and cleaned up my version of the WNBA Salary Database. It turns out that New York is actually bumping up against the salary cap. So having the extra roster spots is not relevant. They need exemptions to go over the cap. Until Zahui leaves, which qualifies them for an Emergency Hardship, the only way to upgrade the roster is to replace little used players with more useful people. For instance, replace Raincock with a small forward. Then after Zahui leaves, use the exemption to bring back Warley-Talbert.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
stever



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 6753
Location: Ann Arbor


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PostPosted: 06/13/19 2:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
They Want Her To Be The Next Yao Ming, But What Does She Want?


https://deadspin.com/they-want-her-to-be-the-next-yao-ming-but-what-does-she-1835454929



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 3:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Great article, much more than the usual puff piece. Thanks for posting.

Quote:
She’s a teenager trying to figure out how to live in a foreign city where she doesn’t speak the language, a professional basketball player who needs to learn how to capitalize on her undeniable physical gifts, and a Chinese woman being asked to live up to the legacy of the most famous athlete in her country’s history. On top of all that, she’s always hungry. A good meal has been hard to find.

The Liberty kicked off their season against the Indiana Fever on May 24. Han spent the bus ride to the arena looking at pictures of meals she ate back in China. She was so hungry that she worried her teammates would see her drooling.


Quote:
“It causes me to spend a lot of time by myself with my own thoughts,” Han said through her translator. “It’s difficult to not have teammates to talk about it with. I do talk about it with my former teammates in China, but in China, they don’t really talk about the mental game that much, so it feels the same in that department. It’s a lot of bottling it in, and that’s difficult.”

Much of Han’s experience in the WNBA so far has been defined by isolation. When not attempting to decipher the meaning of American basketball terms at practice, she spends her time watching Chinese TV shows on her iPad inside her sparse Brooklyn apartment. She has exactly one familiar face in New York, a former middle-school classmate here for summer break, and she won’t see her family until August at the earliest. The one person on the Liberty she could truly communicate with, her interpreter, had trouble translating basketball terms. Han asked for a replacement translator, and now has to get to know her new one.


Quote:
Immediately, he noticed how fluid she was on the court. Silky, he says now. Six-foot-nine and moving like a guard. To test his observations, he handed Han a ball and asked her to shoot three-pointers from NBA distance. She had trouble communicating that she didn’t really shoot threes, had hardly even practiced them, so she just started hoisting.

Han’s first shot went in, then the second, and suddenly she had hit her first seven attempts from NBA range. The training regimen Nurse had prepared for her went right out the window. Instead of post moves, they spent three straight weeks on her shooting range, pick-and-roll footwork, and lateral mobility. Nurse remembers her being extremely impressionable, someone so intent on learning correctly that when he absentmindedly scratched his head while teaching her a new yoga pose, he turned around and saw her itching the same spot.


Quote:
When asked why she decided to come play in America rather than stay in the Chinese professional league—where she could have made a lot more money—Han doesn’t sound like someone with any sort of grand plan. “Playing in school, then the WCBA, then getting drafted, it just all happened so fast that it didn’t seem like it was a goal being reached,” she said. “It happened so quickly I didn’t even have time to concentrate on it. For me, it’s more of a goal to get to a higher place, whether that’s the WNBA or something higher.”


Again, management better have a plan and they better communicate it to Han. It doesn't sound to me like they can just assume she's going to come over every year or if she'll even come back after this year.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5214



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Atl's 2nd round pick, which looks like 13-16 atm that NY owns for Shao Ting might solve more than one problem.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 20373



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 4:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Atl's 2nd round pick, which looks like 13-16 atm that NY owns for Shao Ting might solve more than one problem.


Really would make sense to trade for Ting. Also helps fill a hole at SF with Allen being out up to 6 weeks.



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Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4146
Location: QUEENS!!!!


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PostPosted: 06/13/19 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Great article, much more than the usual puff piece. Thanks for posting.

Quote:
She’s a teenager trying to figure out how to live in a foreign city where she doesn’t speak the language, a professional basketball player who needs to learn how to capitalize on her undeniable physical gifts, and a Chinese woman being asked to live up to the legacy of the most famous athlete in her country’s history. On top of all that, she’s always hungry. A good meal has been hard to find.

The Liberty kicked off their season against the Indiana Fever on May 24. Han spent the bus ride to the arena looking at pictures of meals she ate back in China. She was so hungry that she worried her teammates would see her drooling.


Quote:
“It causes me to spend a lot of time by myself with my own thoughts,” Han said through her translator. “It’s difficult to not have teammates to talk about it with. I do talk about it with my former teammates in China, but in China, they don’t really talk about the mental game that much, so it feels the same in that department. It’s a lot of bottling it in, and that’s difficult.”

Much of Han’s experience in the WNBA so far has been defined by isolation. When not attempting to decipher the meaning of American basketball terms at practice, she spends her time watching Chinese TV shows on her iPad inside her sparse Brooklyn apartment. She has exactly one familiar face in New York, a former middle-school classmate here for summer break, and she won’t see her family until August at the earliest. The one person on the Liberty she could truly communicate with, her interpreter, had trouble translating basketball terms. Han asked for a replacement translator, and now has to get to know her new one.


Quote:
Immediately, he noticed how fluid she was on the court. Silky, he says now. Six-foot-nine and moving like a guard. To test his observations, he handed Han a ball and asked her to shoot three-pointers from NBA distance. She had trouble communicating that she didn’t really shoot threes, had hardly even practiced them, so she just started hoisting.

Han’s first shot went in, then the second, and suddenly she had hit her first seven attempts from NBA range. The training regimen Nurse had prepared for her went right out the window. Instead of post moves, they spent three straight weeks on her shooting range, pick-and-roll footwork, and lateral mobility. Nurse remembers her being extremely impressionable, someone so intent on learning correctly that when he absentmindedly scratched his head while teaching her a new yoga pose, he turned around and saw her itching the same spot.


Quote:
When asked why she decided to come play in America rather than stay in the Chinese professional league—where she could have made a lot more money—Han doesn’t sound like someone with any sort of grand plan. “Playing in school, then the WCBA, then getting drafted, it just all happened so fast that it didn’t seem like it was a goal being reached,” she said. “It happened so quickly I didn’t even have time to concentrate on it. For me, it’s more of a goal to get to a higher place, whether that’s the WNBA or something higher.”


Again, management better have a plan and they better communicate it to Han. It doesn't sound to me like they can just assume she's going to come over every year or if she'll even come back after this year.


I agree that article was alarming...we can't afford a cambage situation...whatever the issue is and it seems more than language (they can't hook her up with the authentic Chinese places in bk or Manhattan chinatown?) What's up with that...not happy with this

With zahui out I think Han getting PT even if it costs us games is a must...katie has to know what she has beyond practice...let her do all she can and make the decision when Zahui and stokes returns

Now that the 17 game losing streak is behind us the key is developing what we have and lining up what we don't have to get better pieces wins and losses are secondary

We are playing for the new arena next year...its not tanking its building

Knowing what if anything we have with Han is the top question aside from turning nurse and durr into top scorers...needs PT and needs to be made more comfortable

I'm a Clarke fan apologist and friend...but this article is disturbing...two sides to every story and deadspin is TMZ level with sensationalism

But you can't seamless Chinese food in the middle of Brooklyn?!?!



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 7:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This article is valuable and distressing. On the most obvious level, I've had wonderful dim sum in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. But the Liberty can't find someone to take Han there? Wow. This 19-year-old newcomer to our city needs more support from the organization that drafted her. It should start at the top... with Joe Tsai.


Lib Fan



Joined: 10 May 2005
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PostPosted: 06/13/19 7:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
This article is valuable and distressing. On the most obvious level, I've had wonderful dim sum in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. But the Liberty can't find someone to take Han there? Wow. This 19-year-old newcomer to our city needs more support from the organization that drafted her. It should start at the top... with Joe Tsai.


Yes Bob I agree with you...I felt sad after reading the article ...OMG she is just 19 years old...The Liberty management has to step up ...
this is New York!



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/13/19 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
This article is valuable and distressing. On the most obvious level, I've had wonderful dim sum in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. But the Liberty can't find someone to take Han there? Wow. This 19-year-old newcomer to our city needs more support from the organization that drafted her. It should start at the top... with Joe Tsai.


Yes Bob I agree with you...I felt sad after reading the article ...OMG she is just 19 years old...The Liberty management has to step up ...
this is New York!


You have to wonder if Tsai is aware of this. Feel like Tsai was the one responsible for the Liberty drafting her and getting her to play this season.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 9:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Lib Fan wrote:


Yes Bob I agree with you...I felt sad after reading the article ...OMG she is just 19 years old...The Liberty management has to step up ...
this is New York!


You have to wonder if Tsai is aware of this. Feel like Tsai was the one responsible for the Liberty drafting her and getting her to play this season.


If Joe Tsai wasn't aware of this, he damn well should have been aware of this. For all sorts of obvious reasons, he should have a personal interest in how it's going for Han Xu on and off the court.

I'd like to underscore: it's hard to move to NYC and begin an independent life at age 19... even if you are from the U.S. and completely fluent in English.


Lib Fan



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Posts: 4386
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 06/13/19 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Lib Fan wrote:


Yes Bob I agree with you...I felt sad after reading the article ...OMG she is just 19 years old...The Liberty management has to step up ...
this is New York!


You have to wonder if Tsai is aware of this. Feel like Tsai was the one responsible for the Liberty drafting her and getting her to play this season.


If Joe Tsai wasn't aware of this, he damn well should have been aware of this. For all sorts of obvious reasons, he should have a personal interest in how it's going for Han Xu on and off the court.

I'd like to underscore: it's hard to move to NYC and begin an independent life at age 19... even if you are from the U.S. and completely fluent in English.


Well said Bob...I was very depressed after reading the article ...she is 19, who doesn't speak English well and probably is home sick, doesn't the Liberty think she might need support ?



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm sure if Joe Tsai finds out about the Han situation, he'll do something about it. But to be fair, he's Vice-Chairman of Alibaba -- a corporation bigger than Amazon and eBay added together. Laughing I don't think the Liberty are his highest priority.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I'm sure if Joe Tsai finds out about the Han situation, he'll do something about it. But to be fair, he's Vice-Chairman of Alibaba -- a corporation bigger than Amazon and eBay added together. Laughing I don't think the Liberty are his highest priority.


I didn't say that Han needed to be Joe Tsai's "highest priority." But there are 168 hours in every week. So that's perhaps 1000 hours since Han turned up at Liberty camp. Under the particular circumstances of this signing, he could have found a way to pay attention himself or designate someone genuinely trustworthy to pay attention and regularly report to him.

I'm not giving him a pass on this, no matter the size of Alibaba. But I'm hoping you're right that Tsai will now look carefully at this situation, as he should have before.


Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I'm sure if Joe Tsai finds out about the Han situation, he'll do something about it. But to be fair, he's Vice-Chairman of Alibaba -- a corporation bigger than Amazon and eBay added together. Laughing I don't think the Liberty are his highest priority.


With all due respect ...He did buy the Liberty and was happy that the Liberty drafted Han...otherwise why would there be a pre season game at the Barclay
with the China National Team ?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tsai's company is in China and his homes are in Hong Kong and San Diego. He spends most of his time on the other side of the world or the other side of the continent. Besides, what is he paying Kolb and the coaching staff to do? It's actually their job to watch over the welfare of the players.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Lib Fan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4386
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 06/13/19 11:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Tsai's company is in China and his homes are in Hong Kong and San Diego. He spends most of his time on the other side of the world or the other side of the continent. Besides, what is he paying Kolb and the coaching staff to do? It's actually their job to watch over the welfare of the players.


Then if this article is true they are failing big time



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 06/13/19 11:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In Katie's mind, she's thinking of saving her job. She's become a reflection of Bill Laimbeer.

The whole Han situation baffling, she better play Nayo, Bias, and Han on this road trip cuz I'm tellin you right now by the end of July-August Tina is gonna be burned out with back spasms back stiffness whatever you want to call it, its gonna happen watch


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