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AFO



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PostPosted: 05/24/19 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NO


Shades



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PostPosted: 05/24/19 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Aces coach Bill Laimbeer said after practice that the team had planned to waive veteran point guard Sydney Colson, but changed course before submitting the roster to the league. Bone, who didn’t attend training camp because of her commitment overseas, had a guaranteed salary for this season and agreed to a buyout to become a free agent.


So they needed a buyout to get the team salary under the cap limit?

I talked to the PHX beat writer about buying out Little, and he seemed to think her full salary amount that she had under contract would still count against the cap.



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PostPosted: 05/24/19 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you just waive someone (and their contract isn't picked up by anyone else) then the entire contract counts on your cap. If you agree to a buyout, the amount of the buyout is what counts on your cap. Bone's full salary didn't fit, so she had to agree to a buyout in order for Nared+Bone to get them under the cap, rather than just Colson.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 1:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/E4UG1ycfF94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
If you just waive someone (and their contract isn't picked up by anyone else) then the entire contract counts on your cap. If you agree to a buyout, the amount of the buyout is what counts on your cap. Bone's full salary didn't fit, so she had to agree to a buyout in order for Nared+Bone to get them under the cap, rather than just Colson.


The key consideration is whether a player thinks she can get another job. If not, then you don't accept the buyout. Make the team cut you and receive your full guaranteed salary. However, if the player thinks she can latch on with another team, then the buyout might actually work in her favor. Not only can the player go where she is wanted, but the CBA allows her to financially double-dip. Unlike many other leagues, there is no offset if you sign with another WNBA team. Players get the full buyout plus whatever full salary the new team pays her. Therefore, you could end up earning more than your original contract. In this case, the calculation is a little more complicated because Bone is arriving late. She was not getting paid anyway while she was absent.



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 11:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
If you just waive someone (and their contract isn't picked up by anyone else) then the entire contract counts on your cap. If you agree to a buyout, the amount of the buyout is what counts on your cap. Bone's full salary didn't fit, so she had to agree to a buyout in order for Nared+Bone to get them under the cap, rather than just Colson.


The key consideration is whether a player thinks she can get another job. If not, then you don't accept the buyout. Make the team cut you and receive your full guaranteed salary. However, if the player thinks she can latch on with another team, then the buyout might actually work in her favor. Not only can the player go where she is wanted, but the CBA allows her to financially double-dip. Unlike many other leagues, there is no offset if you sign with another WNBA team. Players get the full buyout plus whatever full salary the new team pays her. Therefore, you could end up earning more than your original contract. In this case, the calculation is a little more complicated because Bone is arriving late. She was not getting paid anyway while she was absent.

I don't believe you can actually freely double-dip any more (they limited it a few years back in what is known in some circles as the Ruth Riley Rule). Also this situation is a little different in that Bone wasn't going to get waived as the alternative - they were going to have to waive someone else and keep her. So maybe she preferred giving up a little to be paid to sit on her couch, rather than getting her full salary to go through the slog of a season as a practice player/4th-choice center.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So she’d rather be a slog than go through a slog and most likely end her WNBA career (again). Way to aspire to greatness, Bone.

Anyway, I wish there were an article or two that would clarify everything about the situation instead of having to shift through the varying speculations. Only in the WNBA.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 5:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I don't believe you can actually freely double-dip any more (they limited it a few years back in what is known in some circles as the Ruth Riley Rule). Also this situation is a little different in that Bone wasn't going to get waived as the alternative - they were going to have to waive someone else and keep her. So maybe she preferred giving up a little to be paid to sit on her couch, rather than getting her full salary to go through the slog of a season as a practice player/4th-choice center.


You're right in that it no longer looks unfettered, but there is still some double-dipping after a convoluted adjustment calculation. I couldn't find the clause before because I was looking under "offset," but the CBA uses the term, "set-off." Laughing What is interesting is that the set-off is calculated using all basketball salaries -- not only the WNBA.


Quote:
ARTICLE XXX RIGHT OF SET-OFF
Section 1.

When a WNBA Team terminates a Standard Player Contract (“First Contract”) in circumstances where the Team, following such termination, continues to be liable for the Base Salary called for by such Contract, the Team’s liability for such Base Salary shall be reduced, to the extent provided for in this Article XXX, by any compensation earned by the player (for services as a player) from any professional basketball team or teams (the “Subsequent Team(s)”) during the Season(s) covered by the terminated Contract (including, but not limited to, compensation earned but not paid during such period). The reduction in the Team’s liability for each Season (or partial Season) covered by the First Contract shall be calculated for each Season (or partial Season) as follows:
Step 1: Calculate the total compensation earned by the player (for services as a player) from the Subsequent Team(s) during the Salary Cap Year encompassing the relevant Season (or partial Season).
Step 2: Subtract the Minimum Player Salary applicable to players with three (3) or more Years of Service, less ten thousand dollars ($10,000) from the result in Step 1.
Step 3: If the result in Step 2 is a negative amount, there is no reduction in the Team’s liability for the relevant Season (or partial Season). If the result in Step 2 is a positive amount, the reduction in the Team’s liability for the relevant Season (or partial Season) shall equal 50% (fifty percent) of that amount.
In the event that the formula above results in the player receiving more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) above the Maximum Player Salary applicable to any Season from both the Subsequent Team(s) and the First Contract, the reduction in the Team’s liability for each Season (or partial Season) covered by the First Contract shall be increased so that the player receives only ten thousand dollars ($10,000) above the Maximum Player Salary from both the Subsequent Team(s) and the First Contract.

Section 2.
For the purposes of this Article, a “professional basketball team” shall mean any team in any country that pays money or compensation of any kind to a basketball player for rendering playing services to such team (other than a reasonable stipend limited to basic living expenses). For purposes of this Article, “compensation” earned by a player from a Subsequent Team shall include: (i) in the case of a WNBA Team, the player’s Base Salary only; and (ii) in the case of a non-WNBA team, all forms of cash and non-cash compensation other than benefits comparable to the type of benefits (e.g., medical and dental insurance) provided to a WNBA player in accordance with Article X above, travel and moving expenses, and any car and housing provided temporarily by the team to the player during the period of time for which the player renders services to the team.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 5:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
So she’d rather be a slog than go through a slog and most likely end her WNBA career (again). Way to aspire to greatness, Bone.


Sitting at the end of the Aces bench would be aspiring to greatness? I don't think that attempt at disparagement works.


toad455



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Shades wrote:
So she’d rather be a slog than go through a slog and most likely end her WNBA career (again). Way to aspire to greatness, Bone.


Sitting at the end of the Aces bench would be aspiring to greatness? I don't think that attempt at disparagement works.


I take it as they tried to trade her and no one wanted her inflated contract. This was the best the Aces could offer her or she'd ride the bench all season. Plus it appears the Aces will sign a twelfth player whenever they can afford one(Nared?).



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/28/19 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm amazed the Players' Association allowed them to include overseas playing income in those calculations. If you decided you wanted to pay me 100k to stay home rather than play for you, fair enough that I can't then earn a load more from another WNBA team. But if some team in Outer Mongolia want to pay me another 100k to play in their league 4 months later when the WNBA isn't even playing? What the hell has that got to do with what you owe me?

Kelsey Bone might not be playing overseas until January 1st this upcoming offseason.



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stever



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PostPosted: 06/16/19 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Las Vegas Aces assistant GM is team’s MVP, Bill Laimbeer says


https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/basketball/aces-wnba/las-vegas-aces-assistant-gm-is-teams-mvp-bill-laimbeer-says-1688205/



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stever



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PostPosted: 06/19/19 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/basketball/aces-wnba/las-vegas-aces-soar-to-top-of-wnbas-defensive-rankings-1691086/

Quote:
Aces soar to top of WNBA’s defensive rankings



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/19/19 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/basketball/aces-wnba/las-vegas-aces-soar-to-top-of-wnbas-defensive-rankings-1691086/

Quote:
Aces soar to top of WNBA’s defensive rankings


No surprise. When the Aces traded for Cambage, I said that Laimbeer would still expect them to be a defensive team first. Rebounds and opponents' field goal percentage are the two stats he always emphasizes.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 06/20/19 1:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Las Vegas Aces right at home in the desert
Mechelle Voepel (espnW.com)

Quote:
"MGM allows us to be in the spotlight as much as we can be," Aces guard Kayla McBride said. "That carries so much further than people may know. It's who we're trying to be, but how MGM sees us as well. When you have an owner like that who backs you, it makes all the difference. It allows us to be confident in who we are."


https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/27012940/las-vegas-aces-right-home-desert


Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 4:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Watching Jackie Young play point guard for the Aces right now is just like watching Gabby Williams play the power forward position for the Sky last season. It's just not working. What works in college does not always transfer to the pro game. The Aces would improve their offense efficiency if they had an experienced point guard taking care of business.



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 4:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The numbers say they're essentially the second-best team in the league - despite going through the inevitable issues of trying to fit Cambage and Wilson together on the floor. I don't think they'll be too worried.



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 5:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Watching Jackie Young play point guard for the Aces right now is just like watching Gabby Williams play the power forward position for the Sky last season. It's just not working. What works in college does not always transfer to the pro game. The Aces would improve their offense efficiency if they had an experienced point guard taking care of business.



Your observations are legitimate, but I'm still optimistic.. PG is the hardest position to go into as a rookie in general, especially when Young didn't exclusively play that position in Notre Dame. However, they have Plum, a PG who shifted over to SG and McBride, who is good with assists. Add in Wilson and Cambage, and their strengths should be able to overcome their temporary weaknesses. They don't have to be the best... just better than everybody else. And with all these injuries, the pathway is there Twisted Evil



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 5:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J. Young has 34 total assists. That’s more than Danielle Robinson, Renee Montgomery, and Briann January. Use that stat as you may..



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I going to bring my personal prejudice to this discussion. There is a certain team I do not want to see win a championship this season. I would prefer any team but them win the 2019 WNBA championship. I just do not believe that the Aces can defeat that team in a playoff series with Jackie running the point guard position. Confused



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PostPosted: 06/24/19 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The numbers say they're essentially the second-best team in the league - despite going through the inevitable issues of trying to fit Cambage and Wilson together on the floor. I don't think they'll be too worried.

Yeah, I agree. It's not as simple as adding some talent and then inevitably dominating. The Aces are still figuring out what works, and it wouldn't surprise me if that doesn't come to fruition until next season when they have really understood their needs and been able to draft/recruit to best fill them, but they're still pretty well positioned so far.
(which isn't to say that Jackie Young will eventually be a starting PG on a championship team, but her WNBA career is 9 games old so who knows)


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PostPosted: 06/28/19 9:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dearica Hamby Is the WNBA’s Biggest Disruptor

https://www.theringer.com/2019/6/28/18865292/dearica-hamby-las-vegas-aces-wnba-disruptor-liz-cambage

Quote:
Dearica Hamby has the best defensive rating in the league among players who have played 100 or more minutes. (Hers is 85. Only four players in the WNBA have a defensive rating below 90 right now. The other three: Cambage, who is a fucking powerhouse; Seattle’s Natasha Howard, who is a fucking powerhouse; and Connecticut’s Jonquel Jones, who is a fucking powerhouse.)



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 4:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dearica Hamby opens door for Aces big lineup

Quote:
Hamby has been in Laimbeer’s ear to give her more of an extended look in that role. The (very) early returns have been promising.

“I’ve been waiting for that moment to happen, honestly,” Hamby told High Post Hoops after a recent practice. “I’ve been in Bill’s ear, ‘Coach, let me play the 3!'”


https://highposthoops.com/2019/06/27/dearica-hamby-las-vegas-aces-big-lineup/


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PostPosted: 06/28/19 5:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hamby playing the SF spot (a lot) can really disrupt opposing team's D. Slide Tamera Young to SG. Especially when Plum is shooting bricks.



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PostPosted: 06/28/19 6:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Hamby playing the SF spot (a lot) can really disrupt opposing team's D. Slide Tamera Young to SG. Especially when Plum is shooting bricks.


So we’re going to act like T. Young doesn’t shoot bricks either? Laughing



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