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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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 Posted: 05/02/19 11:06 am ::: |
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| shontay33 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| I just feel compassion for her. I hope she gets the help she needs so she can use her talents in a positive way. |
Compassion? Interesting. Do you feel that way for every other person that gets charged with aggravated assault who has gone into someone else’s home with a gun?
She could’ve killed someone. Just because she did this doesn’t mean she needs help. Some people are just inherently bad and think it’s ok for them to do criminal things to get what they want. |
Each situation is different. In this case, Williams did not have a criminal history. Not a history of domestic violence. The ex even stated that. So yes, she needs help. Not sure what drove her to be so angry. Some people have issues but can easily hide behind a smile. |
In this case , she didn't take the gun into the home. She took it out of her car and laid it on the trunk and pointed her finger...according to the article. That is quite different than charging into someone's house with the gun pointed at them. Personally I'm anti-gun because having them invites angry people to use them indiscriminately, but I still distinguish between acts which involve them. Is she wrong to have done so? Absolutely. JMO.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 05/02/19 11:08 am ::: |
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| shontay33 wrote: |
Each situation is different. In this case, Williams did not have a criminal history. Not a history of domestic violence. The ex even stated that. So yes, she needs help. Not sure what drove her to be so angry. Some people have issues but can easily hide behind a smile. |
Having a gun probably spurred her toward more aggressive behavior. Weapons tend to leverage emotion into something more actionable. Gun advocates argue that "good guys" need guns to protect themselves from "bad guys". What they don't seem to realize is that everybody has anger and everybody has frustration. We all lose it now and then, but we usually scream or throw things to work through the surge of emotion. Nothing irreparable happens. However, add a gun to the equation and things are suddenly different. A "good guy" temporarily becomes a "bad guy" or at least someone very dangerous. The same can be said for people who are drunk. Someone who was simply a nuisance becomes a serious safety threat when you add a gun. In short, guns turn normal people into "bad guys" even if only temporarily.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 05/02/19 11:30 am ::: |
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| THIS 100%. Now imagine teachers with guns in Florida when a kid pisses them off.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 05/02/19 11:37 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Having a gun probably spurred her toward more aggressive behavior. Weapons tend to leverage emotion into something more actionable. Gun advocates argue that "good guys" need guns to protect themselves from "bad guys". What they don't seem to realize is that everybody has anger and everybody has frustration. We all lose it now and then, but we usually scream or throw things to work through the surge of emotion. Nothing irreparable happens. However, add a gun to the equation and things are suddenly different. A "good guy" temporarily becomes a "bad guy" or at least someone very dangerous. The same can be said for people who are drunk. Someone who was simply a nuisance becomes a serious safety threat when you add a gun. In short, guns turn normal people into "bad guys" even if only temporarily. |
Exactly right.
I'd add this. It isn't publicized nearly enough--even by gun control advocates--that there are roughly twice as many deaths in the U.S. each year from suicides using guns as from murders using guns. The NRA tells us that good guys with guns will protect us from bad guys with guns. In fact, many of the alleged "good guys with guns" use those guns to kill themselves. And some use them in murder-suicides.
And the success rate for a suicide attempt using a gun is far higher than for other means of attempting suicide.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 05/02/19 11:40 am ::: |
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| “Normal people” don’t feel the need to have a gun.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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| Posted: 05/02/19 5:31 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| “Normal people” don’t feel the need to have a gun. |
Kind of a blanket statement. I would agree that normal people in normal circumstances don't feel the need to own a gun. The problem is that many people are not in normal circumstances. It depends on a lot of variables as to who needs a gun and who doesn't. Some people see it as an insurance policy. And as with other insurance the need is dependant upon the risk level the individual operates under. It is not up to one individual to dictate to another if they need a gun or not.
Bob Lamm---- While not necessarily stimulating certain actions, guns do make them easier and more convenient to commit. I would say there are many other things that do stimulate violent or desperate actions and yet they are totally ignored for a variety of reasons. So guns have become the " Strawman" scapegoat to project all the issues that people seem to not either want to or chose to deal with. Alcohol, drugs and the failure of the mental health system have far more influence on the things that "guns" are being made the scapegoat for.
Alcohol and drugs because too many people are dependent on them as a coping mechanism. Basically because of the failure of the philosophy that is the foundation of our present social and mental health systems. To many people are invested both economically and philosophically so they have to find a scapegoat to project the problems that they do not want to actually deal with on.
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Nixtreefan
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/02/19 7:04 pm ::: |
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| The United States needs to end our pathological attachment to guns.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/02/19 7:29 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| I just feel compassion for her. I hope she gets the help she needs so she can use her talents in a positive way. |
Compassion? Interesting. Do you feel that way for every other person that gets charged with aggravated assault who has gone into someone else’s home with a gun?
She could’ve killed someone. Just because she did this doesn’t mean she needs help. Some people are just inherently bad and think it’s ok for them to do criminal things to get what they want. |
These things are not mutually exclusive. She can need help and need to be kept off the street at the same time.
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Michelle89
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root_thing
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 05/03/19 12:08 pm ::: |
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| Mind-boggling numbers to some of us from other parts of the world. There's a big push at the moment over here to cut down on knife crime, which is seen as becoming an increasingly serious issue. But in some ways it's almost comforting - we still care so much about knives because at this point guns aren't anywhere near the same level of problem. |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/03/19 12:51 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| Mind-boggling numbers to some of us from other parts of the world. There's a big push at the moment over here to cut down on knife crime, which is seen as becoming an increasingly serious issue. But in some ways it's almost comforting - we still care so much about knives because at this point guns aren't anywhere near the same level of problem. |
Mind-boggling numbers to some of here in the US as well.
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Nixtreefan
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 05/03/19 2:24 pm ::: |
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| Growing up in the country in the Wild West, I would estimate 90% or more of the people in that kind of an area own hunting rifles and most would consider it crazy to not have something to protect oneself from a wild animal attack. Those attacks are pretty infrequent, but happen enough that it scares many, especially those with small children. When you see bear or cougar or wolves walk through your yard, it gets your attention. Personally I don't have a problem with properly licensed single gun ownership, but feel strongly that all automatics and semi-automatics and bump stocks that make guns into automatics should be banned. Nobody outside the military should own an AK-whatever, which is what is almost always used in mass murders.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 05/03/19 3:36 pm ::: |
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| A big problem with the gun debate is the one-size fits all extreme positions that people take. I live in Manhattan, and I think guns in cities are generally a bad idea. Constant interaction with people in close quarters increases the likelihood of conflict. More bystanders mean more collateral damage. And there is enough police presence and regular people presence (witnesses) to provide deterrence to crime in most cases. However, if I lived in a rural area where my closest neighbor is a couple of miles away and there are wild animals around, I would definitely want a gun. I would hope to never use it, but I'd still want one. And I agree, there is no reason why civilians should have assault rifles or anything like bump stocks that facilitate mass killing.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/03/19 3:44 pm ::: |
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| This is starting to veer into Area 51 territory
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/16/19 1:18 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Growing up in the country in the Wild West, I would estimate 90% or more of the people in that kind of an area own hunting rifles and most would consider it crazy to not have something to protect oneself from a wild animal attack. Those attacks are pretty infrequent, but happen enough that it scares many, especially those with small children. When you see bear or cougar or wolves walk through your yard, it gets your attention. Personally I don't have a problem with properly licensed single gun ownership, but feel strongly that all automatics and semi-automatics and bump stocks that make guns into automatics should be banned. Nobody outside the military should own an AK-whatever, which is what is almost always used in mass murders. |
Wonderfully stated, and so true. I totally agree.
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Shades
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| Posted: 05/16/19 1:24 pm ::: |
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| I believe pepper spray is also effective on animals. They even have bear level spray. Any more excuses?
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myrtle
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| Posted: 05/16/19 5:40 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| I believe pepper spray is also effective on animals. They even have bear level spray. Any more excuses? |
Easy to say if you live in the city. Pepper spray can often just serve to make them madder. Come face to face with a grizzly towering over you and see how you feel. There are also cases where people used pepper spray on cougars - at least when they found the mangled bodies it looked like the pepper spray had been used. I don't personally have a gun and I just try to make lots of noise when in a situation where it's possible they are around, but I totally understand why some people want a gun.
Yeah, you can shoot one person (typically spouse or ex-spouse) or yourself with a gun, but you won't do a mass murder with a non automatic. I just think there needs to be a middle ground. Anyway that gets over into area 51 or whatever.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/16/19 6:16 pm ::: |
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| "Only people who take orders from Donald Trump should have automatic weapons" is not a very persuasive argument, IMO
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Shades
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| Posted: 05/16/19 8:11 pm ::: |
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https://www.outsideonline.com/1778061/will-pepper-spray-repel-mountain-lion
| Quote: |
Do you know of any evidence that pepper spray is an effective defense against a mountain lion attack?
Sep 18, 2003
A: It's a wonderful defense against mountain lions (also known as cougars, pumas, or panthers). They, like all cats, have extremely sensitive noses and don't like having them abused. So, they'll respond swiftly to a dose of pepper spray, meaning they'll almost always beat a hasty retreat.
Of course, the trick is HITTING the damned thing with the pepper spray. Mountain lions are fast and stealthy. They have also been known to stalk people, unlike bears that are a threat if surprised or protecting cubs, but otherwise highly unlikely to track you down. In many cases of a mountain lion attack on a human, the victim had no clue as to what was happening until the cat pounced. Usually, a mountain lion will aim for the head or neck, trying to puncture the jugular or break the spine. Nice thought. Bad kitty.
Unlike bears, however, mountain lions have to take a human seriously, because a human may outweigh the 100 to 120 pound cat. So they can be bluffed. If you spot a mountain lion, stand as tall as you can, stick out your arms to appear larger, and talk loudly and aggressively. Throw rocks and sticks if you can. Do NOT run or turn your back. If anything, threaten the mountain lion by appearing to advance toward it. (Word of caution: Don't advance far.) And of course, have your pepper spray at the ready.
If attacked unexpectedly, fight back. If you can put up a hard struggle for even a few seconds, the mountain lion will likely decide you're not worth the trouble. |
If you’re stalked and surprise attacked, a gun isn’t going to help you either. Joggers use pepper spray in problem areas. They aren’t toting guns.
This article is from 2003. I’m sure the technology has advanced so it’s even more effective.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 05/17/19 9:11 am ::: |
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| RebKell never ceases to amaze ... who knew I'd learn that pepper spray will protect me when I next encounter a mountain lion?
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stever
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| Posted: 05/17/19 9:51 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| RebKell never ceases to amaze ... who knew I'd learn that pepper spray will protect me when I next encounter a mountain lion? |
 Cougars as well!
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 05/17/19 11:05 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
If you’re stalked and surprise attacked, a gun isn’t going to help you either. Joggers use pepper spray in problem areas. They aren’t toting guns.
This article is from 2003. I’m sure the technology has advanced so it’s even more effective. |
around here, most joggers do carry a gun. But if you want to put your faith in pepper spray, go for it.
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