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sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16684
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PostPosted: 04/19/19 7:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i confess i have a love jones for jeffrey toobin, who has run out of ways to say how utterly, remarkably, outrageously stunning events around this presidency have been and continue to be over-the-topped. but i love him for saying it ad nauseam because we need to be constantly reminded. even those of us who're woke seem to have settled into a state of relative, self-preserving, passive shock.

but let's just pause for a moment, take a deep breath and ponder the absurdities of our democracy, and the impossibly low bar we have set for the leader of our country, as revealed in these opening paragraphs from the new york times, co-authored by the person our president has called a "third rate reporter," the pulitzer prize winning maggie haberman:

WASHINGTON — As President Trump met with advisers in the Oval Office in May 2017 to discuss replacements for the F.B.I. director he had just fired, Attorney General Jeff Sessions slipped out of the room to take a call.

When he came back, he gave Mr. Trump bad news: Robert S. Mueller III had just been appointed as a special counsel to take over the investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election and any actions by the president to impede it.

Mr. Trump slumped in his chair. “Oh, my God,” he said. “This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m fucked.”


A Portrait of the White House and Its Culture of Dishonesty

what initially stunned me was that the nyt spelled out "fucked." which may not be the first time they've done that, but my god - the fucking president said it. and in this context. stunning.

we could make a list of all the absurdities just in this lede, without ever getting to the meat of the story.

how is this person still walking around the white house, representing all of us before the world? a normal person would've resigned in shame by now. ha!

that's all. i so feel the need to go on, but i don't have the strength. i'll say this, though: everyone should contemplate where we'd be without a free press. and not just thank god we have one but commit today to supporting the news outlet of your choice - today, by paying for that subscription - because someone has to do this thankless job, and someone has to pay for it. and facebook, twitter, instagram and whatever else passes for information sharing won't save us. not now. not ever.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/19/19 7:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:

WASHINGTON — As President Trump met with advisers in the Oval Office in May 2017 to discuss replacements for the F.B.I. director he had just fired, Attorney General Jeff Sessions slipped out of the room to take a call.

When he came back, he gave Mr. Trump bad news: Robert S. Mueller III had just been appointed as a special counsel to take over the investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election and any actions by the president to impede it.

Mr. Trump slumped in his chair. “Oh, my God,” he said. “This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m fucked.”
.


They put the rest of the quote in the article but didn’t connect it. The first part is being emphasized alone for what it implies, by writers and pundits, but the full quote doesn’t support the implication Trump was suggesting he was guilty.

Quote:
"Oh my God this is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I'm f'd...Everyone tells me...one of these independent counsels it ruins your presidency. It takes years and years and I won't be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me."




Last edited by tfan on 04/19/19 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/19/19 8:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
So...reading the Mueller report...

Basically, the Media was largely accurate in their reporting. Barr's summary was spin, and Taibbi had more than a little egg on his face for not waiting to read the full report before taking his anti-mainstream media victory lap.

Nate Silver had an awesome analogy for how to characterize how Mueller sees the Russian Collusion aspect of this case:

"In his conclusion to Volume I (coordination), Mueller says that the Trump campaign was "in some instances" receptive to Russian offers to coordinate.

That's something Barr left out of his letter, which mentioned the offers but not the campaign's receptiveness.

Overall, the impression one gets from Vol. I is there was rather explicit flirting between the Trump campaign and Russia, even some making out, but it was a sloppy night and they didn't get around to hooking up, although they might have if circumstances had been a bit different.

Again, the biggest possible exception—where there may have been hooking up?—seems to be Manafort sharing internal polling w/ Kilimnik, who the report says has "ties to Russian intelligence". Mueller can't account for Manafort's purpose in sharing the data or what happened to it."


Sometimes an analogy is used instead of what actually happened when the analogy sounds more significant than what happened. A “sloppy night” that didn’t involve hooking up? “Sloppy night” between Russians and Trump campaign members sounds bad, but I don’t know what he is referring to. If talking about meeting (Papadopolous I believe) is flirting, is Trump Jr meeting with two Russians for promised dirt on Hillary Clinton the making out/sloppy night?


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 12279
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/19/19 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
.....but the full quote doesn’t support the implication Trump was suggesting he was guilty.

Quote:
"Oh my God this is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I'm f'd...Everyone tells me...one of these independent counsels it ruins your presidency. It takes years and years and I won't be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me."


Yep. It actually DOES. Coming from a man who's already been taped declaring he grabs pussies routinely, and has his personal *fixer* (Cohen) reveal he's paid hush money to porn stars, proclaiming it as the "worst thing that ever happened to me" is pretty self-damning. Razz

sambista wrote:
but let's just pause for a moment, take a deep breath and ponder the absurdities of our democracy, and the impossibly low bar we have set for the leader of our country, as revealed in these opening paragraphs from the new york times, co-authored by the person our president has called a "third rate reporter," the pulitzer prize winning maggie haberman:

(LOVE Maggie!)
But yes...."low bar" isn't even remotely appropriate any more. It's more like an oozing, cesspool-like depth of allowances and concessions he's been granted by the continuously stupid peeps.



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Last edited by Howee on 04/19/19 11:59 am; edited 2 times in total
cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11948
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/19/19 10:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Although Attorney General William Barr said that there was “no collusion” in his press conference before the report’s release, Mueller is actually quite explicit that he did not address the question of “collusion.” This is because, to his mind, the term is not precise enough, nor does it fall within the ambit of what was essentially a criminal investigation."

"So when Mueller concludes that he “did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,” he is not saying that there is no evidence of “collusion” at all, in any sense. What he is saying is that there is insufficient evidence to prove that the Trump administration was directly involved in Russian crimes like stealing Clinton’s emails."

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/18/18484965/mueller-report-trump-no-collusion



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/22/19 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight previously suggested that Mueller wouldn't be an honest seeker of the truth. Was watching a youtube video today and someone pointed out that Mueller was one of the jackasses that pushed the pack of lies we used to illegally invade Iraq. Here is a clip of him in action before Congress.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mNeqrTbkZmM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11948
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/24/19 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i'm supposed to think Mueller faked his report? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/24/19 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
....someone pointed out that Mueller was one of the jackasses that pushed the pack of lies we used to illegally invade Iraq.


Very few people DIDN'T fall for that hoax. Including Donald-I-opposed-the-Iraq-War-Trump:

Quote:
Months before the 2003 U.S. invasion, Trump told shock-jock Howard Stern that he supported the invasion.

“Yeah, I guess so,” Trump responded, when asked in September 2002 whether he supported invading Iraq. “I wish the first time it was done correctly.”
Trump has stated that he said privately to Fox News anchor Sean Hannity, one of his most staunch supporters, that he opposed the war, but produced no evidence of that.

Here.

The Big Difference? Mueller, I have NO doubt, could easily tell you why he supported that decision, and explain its error to you, in hindsight. Trump doesn't have that mental or moral capacity. You could replay the Stern video to his face, and he'd still lie about it.

AND. Mueller didn't spend nearly 2 years investigating it, as he did this report. He went with the available intel, flawed as it might have been, with a time pressure that demanded a quicker response....who knows?

His last report was quite detailed, and well-substantiated AND apolitical. "Just the facts, ma'am!" He probably is the type to learn from his past errors.

More objectivity and believability: Trump/Mueller, Mueller/Trump. Hmmm. Rolling Eyes



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 59907
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 04/24/19 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
i'm supposed to think Mueller faked his report? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Mueller found what the administration wanted him to find



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/24/19 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
i'm supposed to think Mueller faked his report? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Before we got the report it was "drip drip drip..." and "...tick tick tick" and "Republicans prefer to dance with Russians". Are you not challenging it at all?

I am just suggesting that Mueller is not the "straight arrow" that he was portrayed as when he was picked for the investigation. That is not saying that he and his team wrote a 400+ page report that is entirely "faked". And if Mueller were going to be biased in favor of power and not a search for the truth, that could actually be towards the spy agencies/FBI and not Trump. But I think he worked for the Justice Department which would put him under Trump.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/24/19 8:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Two years and 448 pages later, some Mueller fans ask: was he tough enough?

Quote:
Many left-leaning Americans regarded Special Counsel Robert Mueller as a paragon of courage and toughness, an unflinching prosecutor who would stop at nothing to ensure justice was served to President Donald Trump.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11948
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/24/19 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Clearly Mueller is a company man, but despite his leaning over backwards in favor of power, he nonetheless stayed on the rails, unlike Trump's new fixer, AG Barr, who has outright lied many times over since his resumption of the office, deliberately misleading the public (and Congress).

But it is more clear than ever now- anyone who continues to support Trump is a traitor.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11948
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 04/29/19 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For anyone interested in watching the guy who wrote the book on the Russian attack on the 2016 election, pre-election, here's the link to the live stream:

Tues 4/30, 4pm E.

https://priceschool.usc.edu/unredacted/



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 05/01/19 8:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1sak58M2Og8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 05/07/19 5:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump's approval rating is his highest ever. This report seems to be working for him.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 05/07/19 6:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pilight’s not being completely forthcoming.

Quote:
Polling concluded, however, prior to new revelations last week that Mueller wrote to Barr in March to criticize the attorney general's four-page summary of the full report. Mueller wrote that Barr's memo "did not fully capture the context, nature and substance" of the special counsel's report and that it caused "public confusion about critical aspects" of the results of the investigation.

Barr endured a grilling from Senate Democrats last week in which they accused him of mishandling Mueller's report and allowing the president to declare victory. A number of Democrats have called on Barr to resign.



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 05/07/19 7:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Trump's approval rating is his highest ever. This report seems to be working for him.

He is sitting at 42.7% according to 538, which is far from his highest ever. And it has barely moved at all one way or another, which as Nare Silver has pointed out, suggests that most people were not surprised by what the report contained and had already made up their minds on the issue.

Which is also consistent with the lack of any major new bombshells in the report one way or another.

Silver points out that this is also a very, very low approval rating for a president at this point in his term with a very favorable economy.



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 11948
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus.


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PostPosted: 05/07/19 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Trump's approval rating is his highest ever. This report seems to be working for him.


It's not really the "report" that is "working" for [TraitorTrump], but rather the calculated, blatant misrepresentation of the report and the way it was rolled out by his current fixer, Barr, as well as the redactions within the report. And the media, of course, plays its role.

The Outlaw GOP is doing its darnedest to skirt, ignore, break, and demolish constitutional law.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 05/08/19 9:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

McConnell: "case closed"

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



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tfan



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PostPosted: 05/16/19 2:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What is surprising about the 538 Trump approval rating page is the graphs where they show widely hated Trump at the same approval rating at this point as re-elected in-electoral-landslide Ronald Reagan. I am old enough to have been around at the time of Reagan and I don't remember him being as disliked as Trump is. But then again, I didn't watch cable news and read about politics back then. It is hard to imagine anyone being as disliked as Trump, and yet Reagan, Truman, Ford, Carter, and Clinton are shown dipping below Trump at some similar point in their terms, on 538's graphs.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/16/19 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
What is surprising about the 538 Trump approval rating page is the graphs where they show widely hated Trump at the same approval rating at this point as re-elected in-electoral-landslide Ronald Reagan. I am old enough to have been around at the time of Reagan and I don't remember him being as disliked as Trump is. But then again, I didn't watch cable news and read about politics back then. It is hard to imagine anyone being as disliked as Trump, and yet Reagan, Truman, Ford, Carter, and Clinton are shown dipping below Trump at some similar point in their terms, on 538's graphs.

Approval ratings dip for presidents all the time. That is not abnormal. If you are interested in why Trump's numbers are historically bad, you should listen to 538's podcasts or read their articles in which they explain that.

The two big ones are:

1) The length of time spent with bad numbers. While most presidents see dips, they also see jumps to decent numbers for periods of times. These dips and peaks tend to correspond to events/scandals: like for Regen you had Iran Contra, etc. Trump on the other hand isn't seeing these positive bounces and dwells perpetually in the negative.

2) This is happening with a very strong economy. Typically approval ratings have a strong relationship with the state of the economy. A constantly bad one in a good economy is a historical outlier.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/18/19 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GOP lawmaker: Trump has engaged in multiple actions that 'meet the threshold for impeachment'

Quote:
A Michigan Republican and member of the House Freedom Caucus accused President Trump of "impeachable conduct" in a break with his party.

Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) tweeted Saturday that the president's actions to potentially obstruct the now-shuttered special counsel investigation warrant impeachment by the House. He also accused Attorney General William Barr of "deliberately misrepresenting" Robert Mueller's report of the investigation's findings.

"Here are my principal conclusions: 1. Attorney General Barr has deliberately misrepresented Mueller’s report. 2. President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct. 3. Partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances. 4. Few members of Congress have read the report," Amash wrote Saturday afternoon.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 05/29/19 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mueller, in First Comments on Russia Inquiry, Declines to Clear Trump

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, on Wednesday characterized for the first time his investigation of whether President Trump obstructed justice, saying “if we had confidence the president did not commit a crime, we would have said so.”


Quote:
“If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” Mr. Mueller and his investigators wrote. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mueller-in-first-comments-on-russia-inquiry-declines-to-clear-trump/ar-AAC5AaA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

The time for Mueller to talk was 5 minutes after Klondike Barr ginzu knifed his report.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 05/29/19 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/M-2BvtRJbmM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 05/29/19 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:

The time for Mueller to talk was 5 minutes after Klondike Barr ginzu knifed his report.

To be fair to him, literally everything he said today was from his report verbatim. There should not have been a need for him to do this. More people should have been like Rep. Amash and actually read the damn thing (and then been principled enough to admit it).

The moment I read the report, I knew Barr's summary was a misrepresentation of the report's findings on obstruction. It is telling that Mueller felt it necessary to highlight these specific parts of the report now before he officially stepped away, to make sure these points were heard loud and clear. He is basically telling us: read the report, and as you do, these parts should frame your reading.



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