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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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 Posted: 04/22/19 2:53 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Cambage, we can say, has proven to be unreliable in some ways, which hasn't made her popular, but setting aside folks' feelings about Cambage, this is an interesting issue for the WNBA.
On the one hand, we have a talented player who wants to control where she works, just like any other employee. For example, if you were an accountant in Dallas and wanted to live in Southern California, you could very likely make that happen. You might have to scuffle for a while, but eventually you'd find a job that would allow you to live where you wanted.
I have difficulty objecting to an athlete trying to live where she wants to live, and using what limited leverage she has to do so. (If Cambage were just another WNBA player -- Theresa Plaisance, say -- this whole discussion is moot, as Plaisance has no leverage at all.)
On the other, Cambage's desire to play for L.A. would not only impact her employer now, but also the entire industry, as her presence would shift the balance of power much as Kevin Durant's decision impacted the NBA. (Of course, the WNBA is much more fragile than the NBA, but even the NBA has considered changing the rules to prevent a move like Durant's.)
From the Dallas point of view, it would make sense to get something, anything, for Cambage, as even someone who plays 10 minutes a game is better than someone who plays no minutes a game, but there is that competitive disadvantage aspect.
From the owners' point of view, Dallas should stand firm, as it doesn't help the league when stars dictate where they will play. That usually means one franchise loses a key attraction and gains little in return, which affects the stability of the league -- and also affects the owners' ability to control their players freedom of movement.
My guess is -- yes, Shades, it's a guess -- that since Dallas isn't really a championship contender with Cambage, they will let her sit rather than give in to her demands. This will make the owners happy, and those fans who dislike players' ability to make decisions about their own future (and there are many -- just look at college fans who want transfers to sit out a year) happy as well. It makes Cambage unhappy, and some Dallas fans who would like their team to win more games, but on balance, I think the owners and player-unfriendly fans carry more weight, or at least enough weight to leave Cambage on an Australian beach this summer. |
The whole idea that an account gets the right to choose where they work might have some degree of connection to Cambage if accountants belonged to a Union that collectively bargained in the same way. The players have voluntarily signed onto a contract that sets up where they play and how they move. If players don't like it, they should try to collectively bargain something else. They chose to sign on to this system. |
An excellent point -- of course, Cambage didn't choose to be in the system, and one thing she's doing is trying to give herself freedoms the system doesn't allow her. (You can say she "chose" by signing a contract, which is technically true, but now she's choosing not to sign another contract unless the system grants her an exception.)
That's the risk that bargaining agreements pose for management. In this case, a valuable asset will become a zero asset because of the agreement, and the zero asset is a negative for everyone.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/22/19 4:32 pm ::: |
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| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/22/19 4:41 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 04/22/19 4:45 pm ::: |
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Lol...The Sparks clearly have no salary cap space ....1 of 4 things happened IMO.
A) The Sparks tried to trade Lavender's contract but had no takers.
B) The Sparks had hoped to include Lavender or Sims in a possible trade for Cambage.
c) Odyssey demanded a trade.
d) Creating cap space for a possible Cambage trade.
BTW, I like Jones.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/22/19 4:57 pm ::: |
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Sparks now assuming Gray is re-signed shortly:
PG: Gray/Jones/Goodwin*
SG: Beard/Wiese/Mabrey*
SF: Ruffin-Pratt/Samuelson/Iagupova*
PF: Parker/Vadeeva
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Brown
*One of these three sticks.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12547
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 04/22/19 5:00 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Sparks now assuming Gray is re-signed shortly:
PG: Gray/Jones/Goodwin*
SG: Beard/Wiese/Mabrey*
SF: Ruffin-Pratt/Samuelson/Iagupova*
PF: Parker/Vadeeva
C: Ogwumike/Lavender/Brown
*One of these three sticks. |
Keyword "Assuming"......Im pretty sure O did her good ole "Dallas impression" and threw a fit after not getting her big pay day just to see her money go down the drain with Cappie halfway through the season . She finally realized LA didnt give 2 shits about her talents and she would never be an real part of the team .
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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 04/22/19 5:25 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
I had always assumed Lavender's big contract had to be unloaded by LA in order to free up cap space for Cambage, but dumping the Sims max 3 year deal does work as well. There has to be further major moves by LA, and not just getting Cam. As I noted, the Sparks roster was shaky on the perimeter, even with Sims, now it is even worse. Perhaps they will acquire Cam, and trade Lavnder for a guard.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 04/22/19 5:36 pm ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
I had always assumed Lavender's big contract had to be unloaded by LA in order to free up cap space for Cambage, but dumping the Sims max 3 year deal does work as well. There has to be further major moves by LA, and not just getting Cam. As I noted, the Sparks roster was shaky on the perimeter, even with Sims, now it is even worse. Perhaps they will acquire Cam, and trade Lavnder for a guard. |
Sims was not on a 3 yr max though right ? Correct me if im wrong , didnt she take a pay cut last season for cappie ?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/22/19 5:44 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
I had always assumed Lavender's big contract had to be unloaded by LA in order to free up cap space for Cambage, but dumping the Sims max 3 year deal does work as well. There has to be further major moves by LA, and not just getting Cam. As I noted, the Sparks roster was shaky on the perimeter, even with Sims, now it is even worse. Perhaps they will acquire Cam, and trade Lavnder for a guard. |
Sims was not on a 3 yr max though right ? Correct me if im wrong , didnt she take a pay cut last season for cappie ? |
The Sparks matched a three year max offer from Phoenix this offseason
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 04/22/19 6:36 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
I had always assumed Lavender's big contract had to be unloaded by LA in order to free up cap space for Cambage, but dumping the Sims max 3 year deal does work as well. There has to be further major moves by LA, and not just getting Cam. As I noted, the Sparks roster was shaky on the perimeter, even with Sims, now it is even worse. Perhaps they will acquire Cam, and trade Lavnder for a guard. |
Sims was not on a 3 yr max though right ? Correct me if im wrong , didnt she take a pay cut last season for cappie ? |
The Sparks matched a three year max offer from Phoenix this offseason |
Thank you !! I forget she was offered by PHX to start free agency !
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boom*NNEKA*nneka
Joined: 31 May 2012
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Location: San Pedro, CA
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| Posted: 04/22/19 7:43 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
Co-sign. Only way this makes sense is 1 and/or 2. I don't know enough about Alexis Jones, but I know that Sims is more proven and costs more than Jones, so that's the only way it makes sense. Sigh. Come on Penny, give me some good news about Gray and/or Cambage. |
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mavcarter
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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bballgrl
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 04/22/19 11:03 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
I had always assumed Lavender's big contract had to be unloaded by LA in order to free up cap space for Cambage, but dumping the Sims max 3 year deal does work as well. There has to be further major moves by LA, and not just getting Cam. As I noted, the Sparks roster was shaky on the perimeter, even with Sims, now it is even worse. Perhaps they will acquire Cam, and trade Lavnder for a guard. |
Sims was not on a 3 yr max though right ? Correct me if im wrong , didnt she take a pay cut last season for cappie ? |
The Sparks matched a three year max offer from Phoenix this offseason |
Thank you !! I forget she was offered by PHX to start free agency ! |
LA is sneaky. They didn't want Sims in Phoenix because they knew that they may get beaten by the Merc. They also probably didn't want her playing in the West either. I am sure shewould have preferred to go to Phoenix were it is warm rather than to Minny. Shame on LA!!
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 04/22/19 11:33 pm ::: |
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| bballgrl wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| canadaball wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
I had always assumed Lavender's big contract had to be unloaded by LA in order to free up cap space for Cambage, but dumping the Sims max 3 year deal does work as well. There has to be further major moves by LA, and not just getting Cam. As I noted, the Sparks roster was shaky on the perimeter, even with Sims, now it is even worse. Perhaps they will acquire Cam, and trade Lavnder for a guard. |
Sims was not on a 3 yr max though right ? Correct me if im wrong , didnt she take a pay cut last season for cappie ? |
The Sparks matched a three year max offer from Phoenix this offseason |
Thank you !! I forget she was offered by PHX to start free agency ! |
LA is sneaky. They didn't want Sims in Phoenix because they knew that they may get beaten by the Merc. They also probably didn't want her playing in the West either. I am sure shewould have preferred to go to Phoenix were it is warm rather than to Minny. Shame on LA!! |
Tolers been pulling sneaky shit for years. At least LVFO was honest with his trade scandals. Penny is worth her name and i say that with the ut most disrespect.
Sincerly,
A Damn Dallas fan
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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| Posted: 04/23/19 12:06 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Sparks trade Odyssey Sims to Minnesota for Alexis Jones |
Can this be anymore uneven? I sense either or both of 1.) Gray signing a max deal and/or 2.) Cambage getting traded. |
If Jones is better than Sims and makes less money, then it is uneven in favor of the Sparks. I am outraged!
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 04/23/19 12:51 am ::: |
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| Hopefully Toler didnt trade for Jones to use her as leverage in the trade neither. She's not half the player Gray is. I could see her offering Jones & Brown knowing Sims was not an option for Dallas in trade talks.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 04/23/19 1:09 am ::: |
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I wonder if LA is fixing a mistake it made. Is it possible that LA thought someone was going to take Lavender and signed TRP to a max and matched Sims at max and found itself with six max contracts before having re-signed Gray or trading for Cambage? So LA basically had to make this trade after other things fell through to open up cap space for Gray, and will likely still have to move another max deal to trade for Cambage.
I know I am a broken record but it is going to end up being Ogwumike for Cambage (max for max) or no deal. Maybe LA convinces Dallas to throw in another cheap/rookie contract guard asset (I pissed off some suggesting Ogunbowale so maybe Davis or Gray?) as both sides become more desperate to get a deal done. But I just don't see Dallas taking less than Gray or Ogwumike and I think LA will eventually give in because they want to make a big splash. Dallas might be the team that has the fortitude to let a star sit if they don't get what they want, and it has been pointed out Agler has already worked with all the players in LA and I am sure he will convince the GM that Vadeeva and/or Lavender and late round picks are not going to move the needle enough to make a trade worth wild.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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| Posted: 04/23/19 4:11 am ::: |
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| Nnika makes more sense position wise than Gray in respect to a player for player trade. Still I think that LA would find a max for max trade for Nnika more acceptable if Cambage were more reliable. You never know with her history if she will show up or not. There for why give up a proven younger talent AllStar caliber player for one that might only play for a year or two. And also I doubt even if they considered trading her, that Gray will sign a contract with LA if they intend on trading her to Dallas where next year she will share the point with Diggens or more likely be traded to who knows where.
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jewelsongs
Joined: 07 May 2010
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| Posted: 04/23/19 9:01 am ::: |
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| We are not trading Nneka.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 04/23/19 9:13 am ::: |
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| willtalk wrote: |
| Nnika makes more sense position wise than Gray in respect to a player for player trade. Still I think that LA would find a max for max trade for Nnika more acceptable if Cambage were more reliable. You never know with her history if she will show up or not. There for why give up a proven younger talent AllStar caliber player for one that might only play for a year or two. And also I doubt even if they considered trading her, that Gray will sign a contract with LA if they intend on trading her to Dallas where next year she will share the point with Diggens or more likely be traded to who knows where. |
Position wise for who ? What do we need with 2 PF's ? Glory & Nneka are pretty much the same style of player.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 04/23/19 9:23 am ::: |
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So neither of the two can shoot that well, but Sims is clearly the better ballhandler -- but she is also two years older and on a max deal.
Given that Chelsea Gray is the point guard and plays 32.5 mpg, the need for Sims in L.A. basketball-wise is not that great, especially at max salary. Still, the Sparks did wind up with a worse roster after the deal, and unless Jones suddenly blossoms, they will need help on the wing.
All in all, though, a good business decision for L.A., it seems, and an upgrade for Minnesota -- maybe this is one of those deals that helps both teams.
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WNBA 09
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| Posted: 04/23/19 9:29 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
So neither of the two can shoot that well, but Sims is clearly the better ballhandler -- but she is also two years older and on a max deal.
Given that Chelsea Gray is the point guard and plays 32.5 mpg, the need for Sims in L.A. basketball-wise is not that great, especially at max salary. Still, the Sparks did wind up with a worse roster after the deal, and unless Jones suddenly blossoms, they will need help on the wing.
All in all, though, a good business decision for L.A., it seems, and an upgrade for Minnesota -- maybe this is one of those deals that helps both teams. |
LA rather help Minny than Dallas both will be in the cellar 
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