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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 04/17/19 2:29 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Well some people are like robots so they can only view things statistically. Clearly Hammon has contributed more to women’s basketball (and maybe basketball in general) than Cappie Pondexter. Of course, maybe both have more to contribute moving forward. |
I'm not sure passport shopping is something the WBHOF is going to view as positive. Coaching in the NBA might be construed that way, even though it actually works to the detriment of the women's game. What other special contributions has she made?
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ClayK
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| Posted: 04/17/19 2:34 pm ::: |
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OK, peak Cappie vs. peak Hammon ... you're picking sides for a pickup game for $5,000. Who do you choose?
If basketball players are to be judged by their performance between the lines, I think it's very hard to argue that Hammon was the better player.
If basketball players are to be judged by their impact on the sport overall, now it becomes closer.
If basketball players are to be judged by their impact on the sport overall and their actions relative to societal norms, then Hammon is the pick.
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pasteurize
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cthskzfn
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| Posted: 04/17/19 3:45 pm ::: |
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| Davis4632 wrote: |
Cappie insulting people in the media who slighted her in the past and saying certain countries got what they "deserved" for what they did to America is pretty comparable to what the current President of the United States does on a daily/weekly basis and some people think he was sent from the heavens to do the Lord's will. I guess this is moving to Area 51 territory.
It's evident Rutgers being a thorn in the side of UConn during the mid to late 2000s and their 2007 Sweet 16 upset of Duke still lingers to this very day. |
Somewhat analogous to saying those who voted for Hillary Clinton are, to this very day, upset that Trump won in 2016, without acknowledging the proven Russian ratfucking that occurred in the election.
I liked cRappie up until the game in question. Great talent. But alas, just another asshole athlete. Her tsunami idiocy guaranteed her entrance into the AAHOF.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/17/19 3:53 pm ::: |
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| I just finished college when Cappie started playing at Rutgers(showing my age now). She had that fresh tattoo saying "WNBA Future". I knew she was going places in the W. happy she won two titles with Phoenix, was thrilled when she came to the Liberty. But then the decline hit when she could lead a team. And it showed even more once Charles arrived. Then she left for Chicago(in which we got Prince). One of the best to play the game and probably the best basketball player ever out of Rutgers. I wish she handled her last year better and now her retirement better. I hope she finds her place post-playing career.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/17/19 5:39 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| No question Pondexter looks like a belligerent fool now (maybe she will have career in politics.) But Voepel probably should have just let Cappies retirement happen w/o comment. I doubt anyone would have noticed. Then again, maybe she just wanted to give Cappie one last chance to make ass of herself. |
When a player of Pondexter's caliber (someone who has an MVP/Finals MVP award, 3X First Team All-WNBA, etc.) retires, it is noteworthy. Voepel reported (and tweeted) on Pondexter's retirement like she would for any other player of that caliber.
Frankly, it would have looked ridiculous if ESPN/Voepel had *not* reported it.
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 04/17/19 5:55 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Somebody like Alana Beard isn't even in the ballpark. |
Women's Basketball Hall of Fame (Knoxville, TN)
Player Category
| Quote: |
The Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame Board of Directors selects individuals to be inducted into the Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame. Selection is based on defined qualifications. In order to be considered for selection in the player category, the nominee is eligible three years after retirement from competition at the highest level and must meet a minimum of TWO of the following requirements.
1. All-American (e.g., WBCA, Kodak, AP) at the community college or collegiate level at least one year.
2. Player of the Year recipient (e.g., WBCA Wade Trophy, Wooden, Naismith, AP).
3. Contributing member of a team that competes in an Olympic or World Championship competition.
4. Professional experience (e.g., WNBA, international) with honors and/or championships.
5. Significant contributor on more than one national championship team.
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https://www.wbhof.com/about/
ALANA BEARD
Category 1:
--- Associated Press All-America -- First Team (2002, 2003, 2004)
--- Kodak/WBCA Coaches All-America (2002, 2003, 2004)
--- John R. Wooden Award All-America (2004)
--- United States Basketball Writers Association (USBWA) All-America (2002, 2003, 2004)
Category 2:
--- Wooden Award -- National Player of the Year (2004)
--- State Farm Wade Trophy -- National Player of the Year (2004)
--- Associated Press -- National Player of the Year (2004)
--- U.S. Basketball Writers Association (USBWA) -- National Player of the Year (2004)
--- ESPN.com -- National Player of the Year (2003, 2004)
--- Victor Award -- National Player of the Year (2003)
Also note:
--- Wade Trophy Finalist for National Player of the Year (2003, 2004)
--- Naismith Finalist for National Player of the Year (2002, 2003, 2004)
--- Wooden Award Finalist for National Player of the Year (2004)
--- Honda Award Nominee for National Player of the Year (2002, 2003, 2004)
Category 3:
--- 2006 World Championships (Bronze Medal)
Category 4:
--- WNBA champion (2016)
--- 4× WNBA All-Star (2005–2007, 2009)
--- All-WNBA Second Team (2006)
--- 2× WNBA Defensive Player of the Year (2017, 2018)
--- 5× WNBA All-Defensive First Team (2007, 2012, 2016–2018)
--- 4× WNBA All-Defensive Second Team (2005, 2006, 2009, 2014)
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 04/18/19 11:47 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| No question Pondexter looks like a belligerent fool now (maybe she will have career in politics.) But Voepel probably should have just let Cappies retirement happen w/o comment. I doubt anyone would have noticed. Then again, maybe she just wanted to give Cappie one last chance to make ass of herself. |
When a player of Pondexter's caliber (someone who has an MVP/Finals MVP award, 3X First Team All-WNBA, etc.) retires, it is noteworthy. Voepel reported (and tweeted) on Pondexter's retirement like she would for any other player of that caliber.
Frankly, it would have looked ridiculous if ESPN/Voepel had *not* reported it. |
Completely agree. Whatever anyone feels about Cappie Pondexter as a person (I'm no admirer), she was an outstanding basketball player. Of course her retirement deserved notice.
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bballgrl
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| Posted: 04/18/19 5:35 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| No question Pondexter looks like a belligerent fool now (maybe she will have career in politics.) But Voepel probably should have just let Cappies retirement happen w/o comment. I doubt anyone would have noticed. Then again, maybe she just wanted to give Cappie one last chance to make ass of herself. |
When a player of Pondexter's caliber (someone who has an MVP/Finals MVP award, 3X First Team All-WNBA, etc.) retires, it is noteworthy. Voepel reported (and tweeted) on Pondexter's retirement like she would for any other player of that caliber.
Frankly, it would have looked ridiculous if ESPN/Voepel had *not* reported it. |
Completely agree. Whatever anyone feels about Cappie Pondexter as a person (I'm no admirer), she was an outstanding basketball player. Of course her retirement deserved notice. |
Of course her retirement should be reported! Up until lately she had a very good handle on her basketball skills. I remember the hype she got about her WNBA tatoo. Good Luck in whatever you do.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/19/19 10:40 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Cappie played for five teams. I think she only left New York on good terms. |
All five tweeted out praise for her.
Cappie gets a lot of criticism, some justified but much of it not. She didn't play the media game. When she wanted to attend fashion week rather than play in the World Championships she said so. She didn't hide behind acceptable excuses about "resting her body" or pretend to have a toothache. She told the truth in as blunt a manner as possible, like she always did. When she got called out for a racial slur (one so mild that one of our posters used it as a screen name for years without comment) she immediately issued an apology, and it wasn't one of those lawyer approved boilerplate apologies. It was a long and rambling and obviously sincere. Criticize Cappie if you want, but in this era of managed social media presences and non-stop brand building we're not likely to see another like her.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 04/19/19 12:19 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Cappie played for five teams. I think she only left New York on good terms. |
All five tweeted out praise for her.
Cappie gets a lot of criticism, some justified but much of it not. She didn't play the media game. When she wanted to attend fashion week rather than play in the World Championships she said so. She didn't hide behind acceptable excuses about "resting her body" or pretend to have a toothache. She told the truth in as blunt a manner as possible, like she always did. When she got called out for a racial slur (one so mild that one of our posters used it as a screen name for years without comment) she immediately issued an apology, and it wasn't one of those lawyer approved boilerplate apologies. It was a long and rambling and obviously sincere. Criticize Cappie if you want, but in this era of managed social media presences and non-stop brand building we're not likely to see another like her. |
Should I quote here all of Pondexter's ugly comments about Japan so that we can discuss whether she was telling "the truth in as blunt a manner as possible"? Thanks for allowing us to "criticize Cappie if you want." I will. She had a great basketball career. No question. But her sickening comments will be remembered.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/19/19 12:47 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Cappie played for five teams. I think she only left New York on good terms. |
She didn't leave Indiana on bad terms. She never should have been signed or played so much last year, but that is on Pokey. At least from the outside, in Indiana she did her job and tried to lead. It was a position she never should have had but she did cause problems.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/19/19 1:55 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
Should I quote here all of Pondexter's ugly comments about Japan so that we can discuss whether she was telling "the truth in as blunt a manner as possible"? Thanks for allowing us to "criticize Cappie if you want." I will. She had a great basketball career. No question. But her sickening comments will be remembered. |
Thank you! In the context of ripping the Japanese people, referring to them as "Japs" was vulgar. Referring to that as "mild" shows a vast lack of understanding and utter ignorance. Crappie is a despicable human - there is plenty of evidence to support that claim, including use of a racial slur while claiming the "Japs deserve the destruction."
I'll add that including Crappie on even one "all defensive" WNBA team is akin to voting [x, y, z undeserving players] onto the All Star Team. She exerted zero effort on defense. Yes, Crappie was offensively gifted - in all the meanings of that term.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 04/19/19 9:15 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| When she got called out for a racial slur (one so mild that one of our posters used it as a screen name for years without comment) |
I believed that poster was in fact Japanese, since he/she claimed Japan as his/her home. In general, one can get away with calling ones own race by a nickname which is considered racist by others. It may not be in good taste, but it is certainly done thru-out our society.
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jap
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| Posted: 04/20/19 10:57 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| When she got called out for a racial slur (one so mild that one of our posters used it as a screen name for years without comment) |
I believed that poster was in fact Japanese, since he/she claimed Japan as his/her home. In general, one can get away with calling ones own race by a nickname which is considered racist by others. It may not be in good taste, but it is certainly done thru-out our society. |
In my case, I have had people (in other forums) attempt to verbally slam dunk me for adapting "Jap" as my screen name. After typically venting with lengthy tirades about my supposed "racial insensitivity," "supremist attitude," and other emotionally charged nonsense, I can only imagine how stupid they felt when I calmly pointed out that "jap" merely refers the initial letters of my first, middle, & last names.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 04/20/19 12:39 pm ::: |
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| jap wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| When she got called out for a racial slur (one so mild that one of our posters used it as a screen name for years without comment) |
I believed that poster was in fact Japanese, since he/she claimed Japan as his/her home. In general, one can get away with calling ones own race by a nickname which is considered racist by others. It may not be in good taste, but it is certainly done thru-out our society. |
In my case, I have had people (in other forums) attempt to verbally slam dunk me for adapting "Jap" as my screen name. After typically venting with lengthy tirades about my supposed "racial insensitivity," "supremist attitude," and other emotionally charged nonsense, I can only imagine how stupid they felt when I calmly pointed out that "jap" merely refers the initial letters of my first, middle, & last names. |
Really? You use a screen name of jap in lots of places and are surprised that it provokes attacks? Wow! I highly doubt that any of those who were upset felt stupid for reacting as they did. How were they supposed to know that you were using the three initials of your name? And why do you persist when your screen name causes such problems? Why is it so important to use jap rather than just jp?
I detest use of fake, incomplete, or abbreviated Internet/social media names. This is one more good reason why they are problematic.
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mavcarter
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 04/20/19 5:33 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| jap wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| When she got called out for a racial slur (one so mild that one of our posters used it as a screen name for years without comment) |
I believed that poster was in fact Japanese, since he/she claimed Japan as his/her home. In general, one can get away with calling ones own race by a nickname which is considered racist by others. It may not be in good taste, but it is certainly done thru-out our society. |
In my case, I have had people (in other forums) attempt to verbally slam dunk me for adapting "Jap" as my screen name. After typically venting with lengthy tirades about my supposed "racial insensitivity," "supremist attitude," and other emotionally charged nonsense, I can only imagine how stupid they felt when I calmly pointed out that "jap" merely refers the initial letters of my first, middle, & last names. |
Really? You use a screen name of jap in lots of places and are surprised that it provokes attacks? Wow! I highly doubt that any of those who were upset felt stupid for reacting as they did. How were they supposed to know that you were using the three initials of your name? And why do you persist when your screen name causes such problems? Why is it so important to use jap rather than just jp?
I detest use of fake, incomplete, or abbreviated Internet/socia9l media names. This is one more good reason why they are problematic. |
Where I come from, civilized people ask questions first in a civilized manner. They do NOT immediately jump to negative, demeaning, or insulting conclusions----especially when they can see that I myself do not have a penchant for being a name-calling soul. Nor do I ever feel the need to accommodate the 'delicate sensitivities' of name callers by skirting around my preference. I do not care for calling myself a name either; so my initials suit me just fine. It is those of YOU who tend to come off with these thinly disguised, pretentious self righteous 'defenses' of human dignity, which are nothing but sorry excuses to prejudge still another human being who appear to have the problem. The vast majority of posters NEVER question me!--it is only the pretentious self righteous 'judges' who challenge me from time to time.
People in general tend to work themselves up way to easily & emotionally over nothing. A simple straight-forward question NOT couched in a negative, insinuating manner is all that is needed to elicit a very simple explanation.
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cthskzfn
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Admiral_Needa
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/22/19 9:01 am ::: |
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Pondexter ready to move on
https://apnews.com/999a23562da54d26aff7b0da6e5f042b
| Quote: |
| “I have so many wonderful memories. I don’t have any regrets. I was placed here to be bigger than basketball and help with a lot of things that I have to deal with my life,” she said. “Patience, hard work, adversity, I needed those things to help me prepare to where I’m headed now. I needed that. My only thing is that I knew that I would never touch making a million dollars in the WNBA. But I guarantee my legacy will help a player reach a million dollars at one point in the WNBA.” |
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 04/27/19 5:50 pm ::: |
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| jap wrote: |
| In my case, I have had people (in other forums) attempt to verbally slam dunk me for adapting "Jap" as my screen name. After typically venting with lengthy tirades about my supposed "racial insensitivity," "supremist attitude," and other emotionally charged nonsense, I can only imagine how stupid they felt when I calmly pointed out that "jap" merely refers the initial letters of my first, middle, & last names. |
Counterpoint: Rebkell is an English-language message board, based (TTBOMK) in the United States. And, in US English, "Jap" is a racial slur, so "J.A.P. happen to be my initials" strikes me as extremely flimsy, and I am also surprised that you've been allowed to get away with it. I mean, If your initials happened to be W.O.P., I doubt that you'd be allowed to skate on "They're my initials," and I'm positive that you wouldn't be allowed to get away with it on this message board, if your initials happened to spell out F.A.G.
You claim that you go by your initials online because you didn't want to have to create an "online name" which, okay, sure. That's perfectly reasonable. That being said, you could have easily just gone by your first and last initials. I have no idea how old you are, so it's possible (albeit highly improbable) that you've had your name for longer than "Jap" has been a racial slur, but I'm positive that it's been a slur for longer than the internet has been around, so I feel like there was some level of intent involved in you choosing to go by your first, middle and last initials online. As if you knew how it would be interpreted, and wanted to do it, anyway, like you didn't care if you offended people. Which, maybe you don't, and you certainly don't have to, but I don't know how you can then turn around and dismiss the offended as "delicate." I mean, I don't think that you're a troll, but that is the sort of thing that a troll would do.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 04/27/19 7:10 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
Counterpoint: Rebkell is an English-language message board, based (TTBOMK) in the United States. And, in US English, "Jap" is a racial slur, so "J.A.P. happen to be my initials" strikes me as extremely flimsy, and I am also surprised that you've been allowed to get away with it. I mean, If your initials happened to be W.O.P., I doubt that you'd be allowed to skate on "They're my initials," and I'm positive that you wouldn't be allowed to get away with it on this message board, if your initials happened to spell out F.A.G.
You claim that you go by your initials online because you didn't want to have to create an "online name" which, okay, sure. That's perfectly reasonable. That being said, you could have easily just gone by your first and last initials. I have no idea how old you are, so it's possible (albeit highly improbable) that you've had your name for longer than "Jap" has been a racial slur, but I'm positive that it's been a slur for longer than the internet has been around, so I feel like there was some level of intent involved in you choosing to go by your first, middle and last initials online. As if you knew how it would be interpreted, and wanted to do it, anyway, like you didn't care if you offended people. Which, maybe you don't, and you certainly don't have to, but I don't know how you can then turn around and dismiss the offended as "delicate." I mean, I don't think that you're a troll, but that is the sort of thing that a troll would do. |
Excellent counterpoint. Thank you.
According to this article in Wikipedia, "Jap" became a slur in the U.S. during World War II. In an especially bitter irony, Japanese Americans who served abroad in the U.S. military during that war came home to find signs saying "No Japs Allowed" and "No Japs Wanted," were denied service in restaurants and stores, and discovered that their homes and property had been vandalized.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 04/27/19 7:45 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| jap wrote: |
| In my case, I have had people (in other forums) attempt to verbally slam dunk me for adapting "Jap" as my screen name. After typically venting with lengthy tirades about my supposed "racial insensitivity," "supremist attitude," and other emotionally charged nonsense, I can only imagine how stupid they felt when I calmly pointed out that "jap" merely refers the initial letters of my first, middle, & last names. |
Counterpoint: Rebkell is an English-language message board, based (TTBOMK) in the United States. And, in US English, "Jap" is a racial slur, so "J.A.P. happen to be my initials" strikes me as extremely flimsy, and I am also surprised that you've been allowed to get away with it. I mean, If your initials happened to be W.O.P., I doubt that you'd be allowed to skate on "They're my initials," and I'm positive that you wouldn't be allowed to get away with it on this message board, if your initials happened to spell out F.A.G.
You claim that you go by your initials online because you didn't want to have to create an "online name" which, okay, sure. That's perfectly reasonable. That being said, you could have easily just gone by your first and last initials. I have no idea how old you are, so it's possible (albeit highly improbable) that you've had your name for longer than "Jap" has been a racial slur, but I'm positive that it's been a slur for longer than the internet has been around, so I feel like there was some level of intent involved in you choosing to go by your first, middle and last initials online. As if you knew how it would be interpreted, and wanted to do it, anyway, like you didn't care if you offended people. Which, maybe you don't, and you certainly don't have to, but I don't know how you can then turn around and dismiss the offended as "delicate." I mean, I don't think that you're a troll, but that is the sort of thing that a troll would do. |
I have employed the user name "jap" or some version of it on various message boards from since before and after the Internet was ever established. Before the Internet there were the worldwide Usenet boards, which began as an outgrowth of the Pentagon's DARPA program. Computer science majors like myself used Usenet extensively. I have employed "jap" or some version of it on boards for sports, photography, religion, computer science, and a few other boards for decades. I have had only a few people (ie, less than 5) ever challenge my use of a user name, and, when challenged, it was always done in an overly emotionally charged manner. The vast majority of posters never seemed to mind my usage of my user name; so your assumption that it would be rejected by most Internet groups is seriously in error.
Compared to most of the other sports forums, the people on this forum are especially touchy. Sports fans are notoriously touchy as a general trend. "Fans" is simply a diminutive of "fanatic," which certainly is pretty descriptive of the general attitude of many sports fans.
I have had a member here jump all over me for employing the term "Indian" to refer to the people erroneously designated as "American Indians." I thought it was funny at the time because that member's preferred term, "Native Americans," is in no way appropriate since the "American Indian" is by no means a "Native American." The "American Indians" themselves left records referring to the people who were here in the Americas before them. (For example, it is no accident that there were pyramids in Egypt AND also in the Aztec empire in South America.) At the time I had no interest in getting into a debate of origins with that offended member and simply apologized and moved on.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 04/27/19 9:17 pm ::: |
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| jap wrote: |
| I have employed the user name "jap" or some version of it on various message boards from since before and after the Internet was ever established. Before the Internet there were the worldwide Usenet boards, which began as an outgrowth of the Pentagon's DARPA program. Computer science majors like myself used Usenet extensively. I have employed "jap" or some version of it on boards for sports, photography, religion, computer science, and a few other boards for decades. I have had only a few people (ie, less than 5) ever challenge my use of a user name, and, when challenged, it was always done in an overly emotionally charged manner... |
Do I strike you as "overly emotionally charged"?
| Quote: |
| The vast majority of posters never seemed to mind my usage of my user name; so your assumption that it would be rejected by most Internet groups is seriously in error. |
In the first place, what do "most Internet groups" have to do with rebkell? I don't think that "most Internet groups" are as intersectional as this place is. And I've found that most spaces that are considered inclusive to LGBTQ tend to less tolerant of things that are offensive to other marginalized minorities, so it surprises me that something like this would be an exception.
In the second place, contrary to what 4Chan and Twitter may have one believe, I have found that the "vast majority" of people on the internet are conflict-averse, so unless something was especially triggering to someone personally, most seem willing to look the other way when it comes to uncomfortable things. You may feel things are better that way; I'd rather they weren't, in general. If only because, if something or someone on the internet is harmful to me, I am unlikely to be in a position to make it/them stop, so I certainly hope that people who are not affected by it personally, as I would be, but might be in a position to influence the people who can make it/them stop, would be willing to speak up on my behalf.
And, in the third place, in my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, online communities dedicated to sports, religion and computer science tend not to be inclusive enough to people whom might be offended by such a user name. I mean, I don't know anything about photography, so I'll have to take your word on however they get down but, as to the rest, to me that comes across the same as if you'd said, "Hey, I post on /pol/ all the time, and I've never heard anybody complain about me calling Black people n*****s! I don't see what the big deal is?"
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| Compared to most of the other sports forums, the people on this forum are especially touchy... |
As previously mentioned, it should come as no surprise that a message board that features a large percentage of openly LGBTQ persons would be less tolerant of verbiage that is offensive to other marginalized groups. Or, "touchy," if you prefer. But the idea that this message board would be more intersectional than the average sports forum should hardly be something to find unusual.
EDIT - Also, FWIW, I'm pretty sure that World War II preceded the formation of DARPA, so it was already a slur then, too. As far as using USENET extensively, based on my (again, admittedly anecdotal) experience, and given whom USENET was overwhelmingly populated by, it's not all that surprising that you wouldn't have received any significant pushback in those days.
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Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
Last edited by Silky Johnson on 04/27/19 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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