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Final Four Thoughts

 
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TechDawgMc



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 242
Location: Temple, TX


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PostPosted: 04/07/19 8:03 pm    ::: Final Four Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

A couple of things I noticed.

The easy one -- ESPN's camera work is annoying. Show the game where you can see the flow. I hate the low angles. I want to watch the game not be impressed by your creativity.

The harder one -- officiating. The trend in officiating has really changed. 20 years ago women's officials were ridiculous in calling everything. They kept the flow of the game screwed up and often tried to anticipate fouls--calling good blocks as fouls. It's closer to 30 years, but the La Tech/N. Carolina game mentioned tonight is a good example. Oddly, Dee Kantner called that game too.

Now it seems that they've gone to a "let them play" at a high level. While I used to yell that a lot, I'm afraid the pendulum has gone too far the other way. There's some hard pushing and shoving that just gets ignored. I suspect it needs to swing back some, but hopefully not too far the other way.

I noticed this in the TTech/Mich St game on the men's side too. There was a string of four possessions where neither team got a shot off but the defenses of both teams committed 1 and sometimes 2 fouls on every possession.


btharner



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 04/07/19 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Actually, Dee worked a semifinal in 1994.

Copied from the Women's Final Four record book.

1994
Dee Kantner (NSF)
Violet Palmer (NSF)
Sally Bell (NSF)
Sidney Bunch (NSF)
June Courteau (CH)
John Morningstar (CH)


TechDawgMc



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 242
Location: Temple, TX


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PostPosted: 04/07/19 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

btharner wrote:
Actually, Dee worked a semifinal in 1994.

Copied from the Women's Final Four record book.

1994
Dee Kantner (NSF)
Violet Palmer (NSF)
Sally Bell (NSF)
Sidney Bunch (NSF)
June Courteau (CH)
John Morningstar (CH)


Interesting. I thought I remembered it being Kantner and Courteau. Either way, they called a lot of fouls -- and officials at that point tended to do so.


ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1453
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 04/08/19 9:06 am    ::: Re: Final Four Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

TechDawgMc wrote:
A couple of things I noticed.

The easy one -- ESPN's camera work is annoying. Show the game where you can see the flow. I hate the low angles. I want to watch the game not be impressed by your creativity.

The harder one -- officiating. The trend in officiating has really changed. 20 years ago women's officials were ridiculous in calling everything. They kept the flow of the game screwed up and often tried to anticipate fouls--calling good blocks as fouls. It's closer to 30 years, but the La Tech/N. Carolina game mentioned tonight is a good example. Oddly, Dee Kantner called that game too.

Now it seems that they've gone to a "let them play" at a high level. While I used to yell that a lot, I'm afraid the pendulum has gone too far the other way. There's some hard pushing and shoving that just gets ignored. I suspect it needs to swing back some, but hopefully not too far the other way.

I noticed this in the TTech/Mich St game on the men's side too. There was a string of four possessions where neither team got a shot off but the defenses of both teams committed 1 and sometimes 2 fouls on every possession.


Agree 1000000000000000000% on the camera angles! It's hard to watch.


Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1586
Location: Seattle


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PostPosted: 04/08/19 9:19 am    ::: Re: Final Four Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/Nicks2Cents/status/1115050702454317057

There were lots of cameras there. Loved Hannah Whitten's catch of Kalani hugging injured Lauren.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 04/08/19 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My takeaway is that the women's Final Four was great entertainment and high-quality basketball, something that the men's semis couldn't quite match. (And talk about bad officiating: Missing a blatant double-dribble in the final seconds that eventually gave Virginia the game is a spectacular blunder.)

I don't know if any minds were changed, but those who watched all or parts of both would have to come away impressed with the women's game -- again for both entertainment value and close games -- compared to the men's.

If the men's final tonight, as expected, is a defensive slog, the disparity will be even clearer.



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TechDawgMc



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 04/08/19 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
My takeaway is that the women's Final Four was great entertainment and high-quality basketball, something that the men's semis couldn't quite match. (And talk about bad officiating: Missing a blatant double-dribble in the final seconds that eventually gave Virginia the game is a spectacular blunder.)

I don't know if any minds were changed, but those who watched all or parts of both would have to come away impressed with the women's game -- again for both entertainment value and close games -- compared to the men's.

If the men's final tonight, as expected, is a defensive slog, the disparity will be even clearer.


Not sure I buy that. This men's tourney has been one of the best I can remember. I thought both of the semi-finals were very good games--though clearly much more defensively focused. (perhaps that's our disagreement)

The men's officiating has been terrible, though. I'd agree with that part. The no calls on that side are ridiculous.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 04/08/19 10:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Of course Kanter has X-ray vision, she can make calls behind the play and see right though people, she should audition for the avengers Embarassed



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mikeyc22



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: 04/08/19 8:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Of course Kanter has X-ray vision, she can make calls behind the play and see right though people, she should audition for the avengers Embarassed


Being there in person, I thought both semifinal crews were significantly better than the finals crew.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/08/19 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
My takeaway is that the women's Final Four was great entertainment and high-quality basketball


Agreed.

I did NOT love the hovering cams either, but minor, imo.

I thought the officiating was *mostly* good, with some glaring errors--nothing that heavily favored any particular team.



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acsuc99



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 04/08/19 11:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The top 6-7 teams in women's basketball in a given year are usually top notch now and when they start meeting in the Round of 8, Final 4, and Title, it's leading to magic. Some of these players are making shots that I've never seen women make before in games of this magnitude.

I didn't think it was possible for the games to even come close to Columbus and yet they did.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 04/09/19 12:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Baylor cheated they won with a transfer that's not allowed......right? Cool



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taropatch



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: 04/09/19 5:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How unusual is it for the national champion team (example Baylor 2019) to have zero players on the AP All-American First Team AND the WCBA AA First Team?

In 2006 did Maryland have any AP first-teamers?


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04/09/19 7:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

taropatch wrote:
How unusual is it for the national champion team (example Baylor 2019) to have zero players on the AP All-American First Team AND the WCBA AA First Team?


Kalani Brown is on the WBCA 10 player AA team.
ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1453
Location: New York


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PostPosted: 04/09/19 9:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

taropatch wrote:
How unusual is it for the national champion team (example Baylor 2019) to have zero players on the AP All-American First Team AND the WCBA AA First Team?

In 2006 did Maryland have any AP first-teamers?


Clearly Cox is one of the top players in the country. Baylor was just so balanced that her stats didn't jump out at you. She is soooooo good! A front court of her and Ny'Lyssa Smith is going to be scary next season.


TechDawgMc



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 242
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PostPosted: 04/09/19 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
taropatch wrote:
How unusual is it for the national champion team (example Baylor 2019) to have zero players on the AP All-American First Team AND the WCBA AA First Team?


Kalani Brown is on the WBCA 10 player AA team.


The AP team is only five, Kalani was 2nd team and Cox was 3rd. I think the tourney might have shown that Cox was underrated, but as someone else said, it has a big part to do with the fact that Baylor was very team oriented this year with much less in the way of stand out statistics.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/09/19 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

taropatch wrote:
How unusual is it for the national champion team (example Baylor 2019) to have zero players on the AP All-American First Team AND the WCBA AA First Team?

In 2006 did Maryland have any AP first-teamers?


Maryland did not have any AP first teamers or any WBCA All Americans in 2006. Crystal Langhorne was second team AP.

Louisiana Tech in 1988 won the tournament with no WBCA All Americans. The AP didn't start their WCBB AA awards until 1995.

Tennessee in 1987 won the tournament with no WBCA All Americans.

Those are the only ones I've found.



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