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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 03/31/19 2:58 pm ::: Does anyone need any more proof |
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than today's two games of what a completely shameful fraud is this NCAA WBB bullshit of forcing number 1 seeds to play regional finals on essentially a home court of the number 2 team?
What a total disgrace.
Anyone actually believe these two games would have played out the same if played in, say, Lexington or Indianapolis and New Orleans or Mobile? If you do, you must be looking forward to the Easter Bunny's arrival in three weeks.
If the people who run WBB took the actual competition seriously, maybe the general public would take it more seriously too.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12793 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 03/31/19 3:21 pm ::: |
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+1
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22513 Location: NJ
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Posted: 03/31/19 3:44 pm ::: |
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100%!
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 9274
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Posted: 03/31/19 3:56 pm ::: |
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Looking ahead:
2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)
Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)
2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA
2021 Regional Sites
Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)
2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M)
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 03/31/19 4:15 pm ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
Looking ahead:
2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)
Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)
2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA
2021 Regional Sites
Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)
2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M) |
I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 9274
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Posted: 03/31/19 4:34 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
Ex-Ref wrote: |
Looking ahead:
2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)
Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)
2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA
2021 Regional Sites
Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)
2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M) |
I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets. |
I think it takes away competitiveness for 2's, 3's, and 4's to have to go to a #1's 'home' court. I think that it takes away from having upsets, which is what we really want. I mean, there's a reason that the men don't give the 1 seeds in their tourney a 5-6 lead to start the game.
I'd be surprised if ND is a #1 next year (hopefully they can hang on to a #2 or #3). I'd also be surprised, where ever they are seeded next year, if they are sent anywhere but FW.
I do agree that a 1 having to play on a 2's 'home' court is worse than 1's having a 'home' court. But not by much.
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 03/31/19 5:04 pm ::: |
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I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.
Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 03/31/19 7:08 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.
Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor. |
All they had to do was swap UConn and Oregon's regions on Selection Day. Really simple to fix.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5194 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 03/31/19 8:51 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.
Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor. |
All they had to do was swap UConn and Oregon's regions on Selection Day. Really simple to fix. |
That is no fix at all. You want empty stands; that is just one more reason that the NCAA and the institutions would have to subsidize women's basketball. Why not play the games in high school gyms with no fans allowed. Would that be fairer? How about requiring teams to not wear their own jerseys so the refs don't know which teams are supposed to get the calls.
We already have a system which gives incredible advantage to the top teams. If you really want to make things fair how about you have the higher (by number) seed host each game. I think it would be great to see Baylor playing at Abilene Christian, and then two days later have to play at Cal or North Carolina. And to make it more sporting give them the 9pm slot for the first round and the 11am slot for their second game.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 03/31/19 9:06 pm ::: |
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calbearman76 wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. If Baylor were playing in Iowa City, or Notre Dame in San Jose, that might be another matter. But how do you predict at the beginning of the year who is going to be the #1's. And there is no place in the US that is truly a neutral site. Las Vegas favors West Coast teams. Any place in the so-called MidWest (we call it the MidEast) favors the B1G or ND or Big East. Anyplace on the East Coast favors SEC/ACC teams. The NE is obvious. Texas is obvious. If Miami or FSU had gotten to the F4, they would have been favored with Tampa. They all favor somebody. And if you really want to be closest to home, just be one of the top 2 -#1s. This year the SEC was the weakest it has ever been. They won't have anybody in the Final Four. It is what it is. To me, it is just useless whining to complain about it.
Also, what constitutes 'home court'. It's not like UConn plays at Albany, or the Ducks in Portland, so the court and rims themselves are just as foreign to them. To me, having fans there is 'nice' but it shouldn't be a determining factor. |
All they had to do was swap UConn and Oregon's regions on Selection Day. Really simple to fix. |
That is no fix at all. You want empty stands; that is just one more reason that the NCAA and the institutions would have to subsidize women's basketball. Why not play the games in high school gyms with no fans allowed. Would that be fairer? How about requiring teams to not wear their own jerseys so the refs don't know which teams are supposed to get the calls.
We already have a system which gives incredible advantage to the top teams. If you really want to make things fair how about you have the higher (by number) seed host each game. I think it would be great to see Baylor playing at Abilene Christian, and then two days later have to play at Cal or North Carolina. And to make it more sporting give them the 9pm slot for the first round and the 11am slot for their second game. |
This isn't the Globetrotters. The point is not to have big crowds watching phony games.
The competition is the ONLY thing that matters. I don't care if they play the games on outdoor playgrounds as long as it's fair.
You want to have shitty crowds and no interest in perpetuity? Then keep handing out favors to the chosen teams and distorting the results, and thereby guarantee that no one other than fans of the few chosen teams ever cares about the sport.
You want to have a sport people will watch? Then put the integrity of the sport as the first and only consideration.
Seriously, what do empty seats matter in determining a true champion? Absolutely nothing.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5433
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Posted: 03/31/19 9:14 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
Ex-Ref wrote: |
Looking ahead:
2020 Regional Sites (schools that could have 'home' games)
Fort Wayne, IN (ND, IU?)
Portland, OR (Oregon, ORST)
Dallas, TX (Baylor, A&M)
Greenville, SC (SC)
2020 Finals
New Orleans, LA
2021 Regional Sites
Spokane, WA (I'm not sure who will be good in two years that this could be a home court for)
Albany, NY (UConn)
Cincinnati, OH (Louisville)
Austin, TX (Baylor, A&M)
2021 Finals
San Antonio, TX (Baylor, A&M) |
I don't have a problem with the #1 seed playing close to home. But #2s or lower should automatically be sent to another region rather than be gifted a home court advantage over higher seeded teams. It's grossly unfair. And I don't give a damn about ticket sales. Run a bona fide, serious, fair competition and you'll sell plenty of tickets. |
Twice you have called this a home court advantage when in fact that is simply not true and a gross exaggeration of what home court is. And I would take you more seriously if you had posted a diatribe against Notre Dame the year they hosted a regional on campus while many other top teams refused and cited their distaste for competitive dis-advantage as the reason.
But from memory every Irish fan defended it.
And for the record I favor a single site regional. My pick is Vegas but any place as long as it's at least 1000 miles from South Bend.
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016 Posts: 279
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Posted: 03/31/19 10:26 pm ::: |
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ncaa doesn't give one flying crapola about womens bb.....they care about outcomes.....
uconn and oregon are about outcomes........
they wanted a certain outcome and they got what they wanted.....
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016 Posts: 279
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Posted: 03/31/19 10:32 pm ::: |
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Oregon playing in Portland is an outstanding advantage....obscene really.....then again Uconn has gotten away with it for a decade.....
do we really want womens college bb to become bigger and better or do we want a few teams the hell with the rest of them........
mens tournament is much better.....you actually have to go someplace.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15838 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 03/31/19 11:18 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I would (maybe) feel more strongly about it if I didn't think that either of these #2 seeds could really have been #1 seeds. |
Precisely correct: UConn and Oregon BOTH were viable #1s, and MISS-State & L'ville could easily have been #2s. Same places. Same outcomes.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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uconnfan1
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 64
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Posted: 04/01/19 6:55 am ::: |
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Vic Schaefer in his post game interview said he would rather play in the Atmosphere that they had, then in a game where there were only 1000 fans in attendance. The answer was in response to a question about where Miss St was placed.
If Miss St was a #2 seed which many thought they should have been, they're most likely sent to Albany. If that had happened, they're probably going to the F4 despite UConn having a huge Crowd advantage. Miss St's overwhelming Size Advantage over UConn would have made the difference. Miss St had less of a size advantage over Oregon compared to what they would have had against UConn.
Miss St was the 4th #1 seed and Portland was the only Regional available.
From a match up perspective, UConn got the best #1 seed to get them to the F4.
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 1183
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Posted: 04/01/19 8:20 am ::: |
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AB23 and WNBA09/her alter ego just hate UConn. GO Huskies! Your predictions of UConn losing as early as second round were WRONG!
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 764 Location: Siege Perilous
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11403
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Posted: 04/01/19 10:46 am ::: |
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There is no perfect solution here ...
1) This year, there was a simple fix for the "home court" advantage, but in many years, there is not. But if you want fans and a good atmosphere and to get people excited about the sport, then you need to have a team like Oregon playing close to home.
How many people would have been in the Moda Center in Portland to watch UConn play? Maybe, just maybe, 4,000 -- more likely 2,000. Now add in the cost to fly everyone across the country so that no fans can show up.
It's perfectly rational to assign teams this way, but it's also unfair.
2) True seeding, all about the competition. This means you
a) play all games at neutral courts, with increased expense and lower income;
b) don't worry about having league teams play other league teams in the first round (if it's all about the competition, then all that matters is the quality of the teams, not their affiliation);
c) Don't worry about the atmosphere around the games and ESPN shots of empty seats everywhere.
This too is perfectly rational.
Imagine the screams, though, if the first-round game in Portland was an 8/9 game between two SEC teams ... and the complete lack of interest.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 1467
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Posted: 04/01/19 11:26 am ::: |
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Isn’t your favorite team essentially getting a “home” game against Stanford tonight?
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12793 Location: Dallas , Texas
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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 20310
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Posted: 04/01/19 12:34 pm ::: |
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These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.
If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.
Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about...
_________________ "Don't do something until you get it right, do it until you can't do it wrong."
- Geno Auriemma
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acsuc99
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 725
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Posted: 04/01/19 12:58 pm ::: |
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bullsky wrote: |
These sites are decided so far in advance, it's hard for me to understand how anyone thinks these were set up to achieve results.
If you don't like where the games are being hosted - then fine, bid.
Also, as many have mentioned, yesterday's results were so close and the top 8 have been so close this year that seeds didn't really matter. It's just one more thing for people to complain about... |
And let's be real....if it was ONLY Oregon getting the benefit of the crowd certain people wouldn't say a word.
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acsuc99
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 725
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Posted: 04/01/19 12:59 pm ::: |
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TotalCardinalMove wrote: |
Isn’t your favorite team essentially getting a “home” game against Stanford tonight? |
Yup.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67491 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 04/01/19 1:11 pm ::: |
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I agree that the current system leads to less than ideal results. Unfortunately, while we on the board may not care about ticket sales the NCAA does. Since the women's tournament doesn't have as many sponsors to buy up tickets and WCBB is a lesser draw than MCBB generally, their answer has been to keep high drawing teams close to home even if they're lower seeds. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe the one site thing people have been pushing is the best one.
_________________ The truth is like poetry
Most people hate poetry
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